National debt

Yes I realize that national debt is different from deficit spending, but I havent actually looked at our debt in some time and holy mother of WTF, jan 2020 its was like 17.2 trillion (yes a gross sum), today it is nearly 32 trillion. (HOW, How in Zeus's hemorrhoid filled bung hole does that happen)

Now admittedly that spending pork filled mess mitch and company helped pass before the gop got the house didnt help at all but seriously how in HADES do you nearly double 242 years worth of debt in less than 4 years....


This isnt a right or left thing this is a congress thing, this is a lobbyist thing, this is a rampant corruption thing, zero chance you get 16 and change trillion in 3 and a bit years without rampant and I mean Mob is embarrassed by this level of corruption.

FFS and people will continue to defend their team Muh but trump... trump was bad when it came to spending too much. But good lord Democrats explain to me this spending spree, explain this to me defend your "team", EXPLAIN this.

Yea yea I drifted into picking a side, but of the two my life has always improved under republicans, even with trash like mitch and the other rhino's grifting the US, this is on the democrats almost completely. (remember that big spending pork filled mess, democrats had the house)

US Debt Clock

Both sides are guilty of reckless spending, borrowing, and failing to pass budgets on time.

I believe the US government could face shutdowns as soon as early March, but somehow they always manage to kick the can a bit further.

I'll tell you though, that can sure is getting heavy and doesn't kick very far these days.

Here's where we are:

Appropriations Watch: FY 2024

Updated 2/13/2024: On the morning of Tuesday, Feb. 13, the Senate passed an amended version of a $95 billion national security supplemental that includes funds for Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan, and operations in the Red Sea. Previously, the Senate failed to advance a $118.3 billion national security supplemental that included funds for Ukraine, Israel, and other defense and border security priorities, so it was reconsidered without the border security provisions. The House's new $17.6 billion Israel supplemental was defeated under suspension of the rules on Tuesday, Feb. 6.

On Jan. 18, the House and Senate both passed a third continuing resolution (CR) for fiscal year 2024 to avoid a partial government shutdown at midnight on Friday, Jan. 19. The President signed the CR on Jan. 19. The new measure would extend the "laddered" approach from the previous CR, with the first set of appropriations bills expiring on Friday, March 1: Agriculture, Energy-Water, Military Construction-VA, and Transportation-HUD (these were previously set to expire Jan. 19). The second set of appropriations bills would expire a week later, on Friday, March 8: Commerce-Justice-Science, Defense, Financial Services-General Government, Homeland Security, Interior-Environment, Labor-HHS-Education, Legislative Branch, and State-Foreign Operations bills (these were previously set to expire Feb. 2). 

a reply to: Irishhaf

One big clue:


The info you looked at was from January 2020....which was just Before the COVID pandemic sent the entire World's economy into a tailspin.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Technically the total US debt right now is 97 trillion dollars.

This is why I dropped out of talking about politics for the most part when Joe got in office.

We had a tiny sliver of hope under Trump of slowing it down.

Our current debt to GDP ratio is 136%.

Now we're done and it doesn't matter who is President next year.

Simply because the next bubble to burst is the USD.

Most civilized countries are joining BRICs now.

We're just screwed.

a reply to: Mantiss2021

Nope try again it was effectively over then biden got in and went we need MORE STIMULUS. Because democrats kept their areas on lockdown despite the rest of the country getting back to the business of living.

Now the multiple stimulus pork filled garbage heaps, under trump are 100% his fault.

a reply to: Lumenari

I am aware its much worse than what they claim it is, I was just shocked at how bad they are admitting in such a short time span, wouldnt be surprised if its why so many people that wrecked the country are suddenly retiring.

Hoping they can fade away in comfort when the bottom falls out.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Lumenari

I am aware its much worse than what they claim it is, I was just shocked at how bad they are admitting in such a short time span, wouldnt be surprised if its why so many people that wrecked the country are suddenly retiring.

Hoping they can fade away in comfort when the bottom falls out.

Since the Bretton-Woods agreement that enabled us to spread USD inflation globally, the actual estimates of our debt is 700 trillion to 1 quadrillion.

The real estate value of the planet in USD is around 400 trillion.

They know it is over.

We should at least acknowledge that and plan for our own futures.

a reply to: Lumenari

Small part of the reason I live where I do, might die of exposure, or the wild animals but at least I have little to fear from the 2 legged animals.

everyone around me has been learning to live with as little outside input as possible, I unfortunately am the new kid on the block most of my neighbors I have he been doing it for 20 years or more.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Lumenari

Small part of the reason I live where I do, might die of exposure, or the wild animals but at least I have little to fear from the 2 legged animals.

everyone around me has been learning to live with as little outside input as possible, I unfortunately am the new kid on the block most of my neighbors I have he been doing it for 20 years or more.

My brother (who unfortunately is an actual genius) pointed out to me where this is going in the 80's.

So I made it my life's task to be prepared for it.

If I have to pay for insurance and property taxes, I can live off of 4K a year.

Which means I'm OK until I am 187.

If that all goes away, I am in a situation where I am fine with that to.

I just feel sorry for the rest of us...

a reply to: Lumenari

The real estate value of the planet in USD is around 400 trillion.

Depends on which judge is providing the valuation.......

With the expansion of BRICS it is easy to see why the fight in Ukraine is crucial, Bidens attachments to it aside.


Most days, it seems like all the plotitical cretins are pocketing the silverware on a sinking ship.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
Yes I realize that national debt is different from deficit spending, but I havent actually looked at our debt in some time and holy mother of WTF, jan 2020 its was like 17.2 trillion (yes a gross sum), today it is nearly 32 trillion. (HOW, How in Zeus's hemorrhoid filled bung hole does that happen)

Now admittedly that spending pork filled mess mitch and company helped pass before the gop got the house didnt help at all but seriously how in HADES do you nearly double 242 years worth of debt in less than 4 years....

This isnt a right or left thing this is a congress thing, this is a lobbyist thing, this is a rampant corruption thing, zero chance you get 16 and change trillion in 3 and a bit years without rampant and I mean Mob is embarrassed by this level of corruption.

FFS and people will continue to defend their team Muh but trump... trump was bad when it came to spending too much. But good lord Democrats explain to me this spending spree, explain this to me defend your "team", EXPLAIN this.

Yea yea I drifted into picking a side, but of the two my life has always improved under republicans, even with trash like mitch and the other rhino's grifting the US, this is on the democrats almost completely. (remember that big spending pork filled mess, democrats had the house)

Firstly, the President is not responsible for the national budget. He does approve it, but it comes from the bean-counters in Congress.

Under previous administrations, when the debt-to-GDP ratio started to rise and interest rates were very low (recession conditions), they implemented quantitative easing to reign in the debt-to-GDP ratio without interest rates going out of control and without massive asset sales. Under Trump's admin, many QE policies were dropped and the debt-to-GDP ratio was not really reigned-in in any way.

This had an initially slow effect on the local economy but started to more rapidly impact the international side of the US economy via trade. A similar example is when you have just bought a big screen TV on the credit card, but you are struggling to pay other bills. You can go a little while before the reality begins to really bite.

The administration under Trump implemented trade protectionism where the sharp fall in 'incoming' international trade was masked slightly behind tariffs and import limits. This also meant that 'incoming' trade with the USA was reduced as 'outside' companies profitability reduced. This would have worked if the USA was a big prime producer economy, but it is mostly a service economy, and it didn't have a lot of 'outgoing' trade to protect in the first place.

The other issue is that one of the last thing Trump did before leaving office was to approve the budget for 2020-2021. It wasn't until May 2022 that Biden's first approved budget was enacted. In the same way, Trump's first two years in office were operating under the budget that Obama signed off. Trump's claims of instant economic success, even before he took office, simply showed how clueless he was.

Again, the President does not set the budget. It is in the Constitution that it is the responsibility of Congress.

Additionally, quite early, Trump blocked supply over his border wall, and the downside of that is that while it reduced government cost/debt for the period of shutdown, it actually increased government debt overall afterwards and simultaneously slowed GDP growth as private and public sector confidence faltered.

In short, the administration allowed the debt to freewheel, but, with the added costs of the pandemic, interest rates were set to fall and the economy shrink to recession while debt that was incurred to service the 'already spent' payments rose.

With the low interest rates, it is almost impossible to profit your way out of such a recession, as costs rise without a commensurate rise in productivity or profit. So, prices go up, but companies still have less profit. So GDP contracts.

Biden inherited a recessional economy's goal has likely been to restore interest rates and the money comes from somewhere. More debt -to prop up the economy in the hope of building up a wave of confidence, production and spending. So far, it looks like it may work as the US economy, while not healed, is performing well against its nearest strong competitor, China.

But things could take a turn for the worse at any time. It isn't yet back to being a strong economy, by a long shot.

a reply to: chr0naut

You lost me at QE they were implemented during the crash in 08 to soften the blow and then NEVER WENT AWAY till trump.

we were pushed into a death spiral as Lumenari said this has been coming for a long time then the govt decided awww economic theory will work out just fine.

Since historically its worked out so well for normal people.

a reply to: Lumenari

Honestly I figured it would be world war 3 in my kids lifetime, not global economic collapse in my lifetime.

Im in central alaska and everyone says oh... its to cold you cant survive there.

People been living up here for a long long time without modern niceties, me and the wife are in a crash course to learn the old ways.

House I bought is in a direction the mob wont go if things collapse, I have a creek down the hill to get water (yea hauling it up is gonna suck), cast iron stove to cook on and heat the place, plenty of trees to cut down within easy walking distance to get me through probably 2 winters at least.

Ill be planting apple trees probably next month, and have already started planting in 5 gallon buckets till I can build a green house, also found plans for an old school smoker, and we have moose and bear within walking distance, and if I make a day of it I can walk to a river for fishing.

Waiting on some things to clear up and ill start taking steps to get a grip on our biggest weakness, medicine and medical care.

Alot of it I think is Ukraine and the middle East crap and illegals get like a monthly check for existing here plus the ones who get sent back costs a ton

9a reply to: Irishhaf


I have been watching the reckless spending of government on both sides of the pond since the crash of 08 and was flabbergasted at the spending on the covid scamdemic , 40 billion on a track and trace app ? And like everything the government does it was not fit for purpose and never worked , the government ended up dumping 300 hundred tons of gear a day in landfill ?? And had to employ the prison population to keep costs down , they mentioned it was cheaper than storing it .

In 08 the UK government was 500 billion in debt now it is close to 3 trillion they are spending like mad men who are trying to crash the system on both sides of the pond , if you or me tryed to run a business like that we would be told to shut it down by the banks and tax offices as not fit for business or purpose.

The USA is in a dark place very dark if SHTF and could lose much land with eminent domain being granted by Obama back in 08 time ? If those debts get called in expect trouble

a reply to: stonerwilliam

Banks trying to get people off their land in alaska, thats not a worry for me.

Alaskans would look at the troopers *shrug* and go I told them not to approach from that direction look for the bear scat you might find whats left of em.

Troopers knowing better wouldnt come back for a while if ever, since most of them still have family in there area.

I'd like to get all upset about the national debt.

And I did, when it was FOUR TRILLION. I thought the debt was too high at that point.

Said a lot about it at the time. No one cared. Ranted about it when it was 8 Trillion. No one cared.

Talked a lot about it as it rose higher. And now, I DON'T CARE.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Unfunded liabilities are an additional $213 TRILLION

usdebtclock.org...

Meanwhile they just approved $95 billion to go to Ukraine, Taiwan, and Israel (Israel also has over $200 billion in foreign reserves right now, but let's have US taxpayers give them billions smh)

This is sickening.

a reply to: Disgusted123

I can remember the panic, literal panic when it hit 1 trillion officially.

Now, only thing I can come up with is our education system has gotten so bad they cant grasp how borked we are.

a reply to: FamCore

It really has left a sickening feeling in my stomach since my son was born, at this point I hope it limps along long enough for him to learn the skills he needs to survive.