POLITICS: France Could Derail EU Constitution

French leaders stung by signs of rising opposition to the European constitution embarked on an all-out drive to win over voters ahead of the national referendum that could derail hopes of building continental unity and ensuring France's voice in Europe. President Jacques Chirac on Wednesday began a 20-stop campaign to urge his countrymen to back the charter, as polls show the opposing camp is gaining steam before the May 29 referendum.



I have to admit I am not aware what the ramifications of this could be, yet I wonder why the French as a whole have to be so stubborn at times.

Looking at it from a US perspective, I think it would be a good thing for France, yet the French people appear to be all up in arms about it. Does anyone know the reasoning over this issue in France? In addition, what happens if the French do turn it down, does that mean and end to EU?








[edit on 4/14/2005 by shots]

Google is your firend. There are thousands of links on this subject, here's jsut one I found useful

Well France has been a big supporter of the EU since it sees itself as being the center of gravity within the new EU power and thus having some weight to throw around to back up its ego. If the French people themselves reject the EU constitution, the French government will be dealt a stinging and embarrasing blow.

Originally posted by shots
what happens if the French do turn it down, does that mean and end to EU?
[edit on 4/14/2005 by shots]

not, i don't belived so, the EU can't end that fast, it was just created year ago... right... well one thing for sure is that it will do a major blow to the french government if they turn it down.

Originally posted by ulshadow
not, i don't belived so, the EU can't end that fast, it was just created year ago... right... well one thing for sure is that it will do a major blow to the french government if they turn it down.

I agree it will be a blow to the government and perhaps one that is long over do. But my question is how can the EU function w/o a constitution?

No consitition = No EU to me or am I missing something?

Originally posted by djohnsto77
If the French people themselves reject the EU constitution, the French government will be dealt a stinging and embarrasing blow.

I thought the people make the government. Interesting phrase of words you used....

Originally posted by ulshadow

Originally posted by shots
what happens if the French do turn it down, does that mean and end to EU?
[edit on 4/14/2005 by shots]

not, i don't belived so, the EU can't end that fast, it was just created year ago... right... well one thing for sure is that it will do a major blow to the french government if they turn it down.

The EU as we know it now was formed in 1993. But members countries have been co-operating in a similar manner sice shortly after World War 2. Many treaties and trade agreements were set up starting from then.

France may be against the constitution, but not the idea of the EU itself, this is not a disaster as the constitution will likely be altered until all members are happy with it.

Originally posted by Kriz_4
France may be against the constitution, but not the idea of the EU itself, this is not a disaster as the constitution will likely be altered until all members are happy with it.

What I would like to know is why they are against the constitution? From what I have seen this all is coming from a younger generation of French and perhaps some farmers.

I had hoped we might have had a few frenchman on the board, but guess their ego keeps them from posting.

Originally posted by shots


I agree it will be a blow to the government and perhaps one that is long over do. But my question is how can the EU function w/o a constitution?

No consitition = No EU to me or am I missing something?

Constitution of USA marks the begining of USA.
Consitution of EU marks the end of efforts to unite Europe. It sumarizes the previous treaties, regulates a few things and rants a lot about what we all already know regarding human rights, equality etc, etc.
EU can function without it, it already does, but it would be nice to have it I guess.

The main oposition comes from far right parties who think that this somehow undermines the sovereignty or what not. Their fears are baseless since europe IS already united and is functioning quite nicely as a unity of sovereign countries, there are no borders anymore, we all, almost all, have the same currency, same laws regarding trade issues, etc, etc, but we still each have our own presidents, parliaments, police, army, and it is going to stay that way.
So, I guess they are oposing it because they ARE the opposition in our multi-party system. It is an unwritten rule that the oposition oposes everything the ruling party wants to do.

Good for France!

The French people have always been a little on the "touchy" side. Militant unions and low tolerances for failure the French administration will have to bow to public pressure in order to ward off another embarassingly close election.

Originally posted by Nerdling
Good for France!

The French people have always been a little on the "touchy" side. Militant unions and low tolerances for failure the French administration will have to bow to public pressure in order to ward off another embarassingly close election.

More like down right arrogant if you ask me. Really makes no differance to me it will not be my currency that goes down the tube.

[edit on 4/15/2005 by shots]

EU might work just fine now but it won't last that long because there are far too many countries in the Union, each country Probably have it's own agenda. I can bet that the Union will break up if they ever get attack or a economy crises because all those countries will go Separate ways.

Its quite amusing reading non European posts regarding something that only Europeans could understand.

The French aren't the only ones with issues regarding this "Constitution" (it isn't a constituition like the US, more like a summing up of 40 yrs of rules and how they plan to go forward). The UK and others also have strong reservations with this as well.

What will happen (and what has been agreed prior to putting the Constitution to the vote by all member states) is that if any one country rejects it, it will be worked on until they all do and are happy with it.

Whilst I don't doubt there are some in the US that would love to see the EU break up, or have wet dreams regarding fanciful "attacks" that might cause a stir in Europe, it is all bollocks. The EU isn't about to break up, this is democracy in action and the way forward for the EU.

Should everyone just accept something even if they are not happy with it? Of course not, hence the votes. Inherentlly people are going to disagree with certain parts of it, so it will go back to the drawing board for some fine tuning, until everyone is happy.

Once this happens, the EU will emerge stronger than before.

And we are already very strong, despite some misguided opinions about the EU, "Socialism" and every other bit of false propaganda spouted about us.

(PS: I am surprised by the French NO campaign though, I always thought the Frogs would support it, being a big EU player. I always thought it would be the UK who would vote NO, but the French always love to upstage us Brits )

EDIT

EU might work just fine now but it won't last that long because there are far too many countries in the Union, each country Probably have it's own agenda. I can bet that the Union will break up if they ever get attack or a economy crises because all those countries will go Separate ways.

Thats just uninformed drivel. Too big? we have just taken on new members, at considerable effort to them as well to reach the standards required. You really think that they will just pull out over one little hurdle? Or because the Americans are paranoid about any little perceived threat, that means the rest of us are too? Not likely.

Try to understand something before posting your opinion please.

[edit on 15/4/05 by stumason]

Originally posted by stumason

EU might work just fine now but it won't last that long because there are far too many countries in the Union, each country Probably have it's own agenda. I can bet that the Union will break up if they ever get attack or a economy crises because all those countries will go Separate ways.

Thats just uninformed drivel. Too big? we have just taken on new members, at considerable effort to them as well to reach the standards required. You really think that they will just pull out over one little hurdle? Or because the Americans are paranoid about any little perceived threat, that means the rest of us are too? Not likely.

Try to understand something before posting your opinion please.

[edit on 15/4/05 by stumason]

Sorry, it is just my option. you said the constutition have to make all 40 countries happy before it can put in right... but since there many countries, 40 is a lot, it might be hard to make all 40 happy. But you are right, they shouldn't break up that easily, a small problem shouldn't break them up but if a major one it might.

Ps. I am Chinese

Originally posted by stumason
Its quite amusing reading non European posts regarding something that only Europeans could understand.

The French aren't the only ones with issues regarding this "Constitution" (it isn't a constituition like the US, more like a summing up of 40 yrs of rules and how they plan to go forward). The UK and others also have strong reservations with this as well.

AS a non European that is why I asked what was the problem with France.

Now, since you have just implied that others have some issues with it, care to explain what some of those issues are?

Now with any luck we might even get a frenchman to jump in and gives his views but I doubt that will happen.

posted by ulshadow
Sorry, it is just my option. you said the constutition have to make all 40 countries happy before it can put in right... but since there many countries, 40 is a lot, it might be hard to make all 40 happy. But you are right, they shouldn't break up that easily, a small problem shouldn't break them up but if a major one it might.

Don't know where you got 40 from, as its 25 member states. It wont be hard to make them all agree, as many have the same concerns. Once all these are ironed out and the rather right wing NO campaigns in the members states have died out, people will find that it is actually a good thing.

posted by shots
AS a non European that is why I asked what was the problem with France.

Now, since you have just implied that others have some issues with it, care to explain what some of those issues are?

Same problem that some have everywhere. They "fear" a loss of sovereignty, cultural identity etc. But these fears are misplaced and ill informed. For example, in the UK, the NO campaign is led by papers such as The Sun. This is a (low market) tabloid paper with some quite right wing views.

Unfortunately, even though it is very tacky and journalistic drivel, it still has the highest readership of all the papers in the UK (I don't know if this says something about Britons, but I hope it is just because they have a good sport section ) and as a result, people are being lied to and the information reaching the public about the EU is twisted and false.

If people actually took the time to look into themselves instead of believing what they are told by a (very) crappy Tabloid, then perhaps the NO campaign would have little nationalistic fervour and instead focus on the real issues within the EU, such as increasing accountability etc...

Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by Kriz_4
France may be against the constitution, but not the idea of the EU itself, this is not a disaster as the constitution will likely be altered until all members are happy with it.

What I would like to know is why they are against the constitution? From what I have seen this all is coming from a younger generation of French and perhaps some farmers.

I had hoped we might have had a few frenchman on the board, but guess their ego keeps them from posting.

I am not a frenchmen, but one thing I know: the main reason why the majority of the French as well as the Dutch are opposing the EU Constitution is because their Governmental leaders tricked them into losing their National currency and accepting the Euro in 2002. One of the Government's broken promises was that life would be so much better with the introduction of the Euro. Nowadays in 2005 life has become so much worse and expensive to the French and Dutch population. Unemployment rockets sky high. Prices have dubbled or even trippled. Salaries don't grow in comparison with the costs of life. The trust in their Governmental leaders is gone. People have become afraid they will be tricked again, making life even more expensive and this time losing their identity as well being swallowed up by the formation of a European "Super State."

Originally posted by stumason
Same problem that some have everywhere. They "fear" a loss of sovereignty, cultural identity etc. But these fears are misplaced and ill informed.

Those fears are not misplaced. If the constitution is approved it will lead to the loss of soverignity (at least). If you don't see it, than you are blind. The problem is almost noone actually wants the "stronger Europe" except Brusel beaurocrats and few big companies.

Originally posted by Roth Joint
I am not a frenchmen, but one thing I know: the main reason why the majority of the French as well as the Dutch are opposing the EU Constitution is because their Governmental leaders tricked them into losing their National currency and accepting the Euro in 2002. One of the Government's broken promises was that life would be so much better with the introduction of the Euro. Nowadays in 2005 life has become so much worse and expensive to the French and Dutch population. Unemployment rockets sky high. Prices have dubbled or even trippled. Salaries don't grow in comparison with the costs of life. The trust in their Governmental leaders is gone. People have become afraid they will be tricked again, making life even more expensive and this time losing their identity as well being swallowed up by the formation of a European "Super State."

Furthermore it's not about voting for the EU Constitution but a Constitutional Treaty. I can see justifications for the fears of the Dutch and the French. Not even their own politicians know exactly what the Constitution is about. We are talking about a 300+ page of work to read through. Their politicians just promote it. Just as they did with introducing the Euro. Furthermore, accepting the EU Constitution will mean to accept that the greatest might goes to the greatest countries and as Turkey seems to be eager to join the European Union you can guess what fears this brings to the smaller countries France and the Netherlands. And scare tactics of their Governments are not helping matters. It only rises the anger and strong emotions of being disdained. Scare tactics vary from "getting isolated" till fear mongering about war situations such as under the Nazi regime in the Second World War. I personally find this disgusting.

Originally posted by longbow
If the constitution is approved it will lead to the loss of soverignity (at least).

How do you figure that out? The constitution actually gives more powers to parliaments to voice protest over EU rules and laws. They currently dont have that power.

Also the French are voting "non" for many reasons and not just about the constitution. The "non" vote is being used as a protest vote against Chirac and his government who are hugely unpopular in France. They see the constitution as Chirac's baby and they want to send him a message that they dont like him. Also its not just the right wingers that have pushed a "non" campaign its also the left wingers who fear an Anglo-Saxon style free market economy and the liberal economic policies its entails.

There is also French concern that Britain has watered down the constitution to benefit themselves, which is damn true. These are the reasons why our French cousins are voting "non" and I dont really blame them.

We dont need a constitution and the EU will continue just fine with out it. Maybe a little less streamlined but unmolested nontheless.