Alec Baldwin Just Indicted on Two Counts of Involuntary Manslaughter

originally posted by: KrustyKrab
As much as I dislike Baldwin and think he should be held accountable for set conditions. I still think the armorer Gutierrez is the one ultimately responsible for Halyna Hutchins death.

When you take possession of the gun it becomes your responsibility.

a reply to: BernnieJGato

Accidental discharge testing determined that the firearm used in the shooting -- a .45 Colt (.45 Long Colt) caliber F.lli Pietta single-action revolver -- could not have fired without the trigger being pulled, the FBI report shows.

abcnews.go.com...

I think you can buy the same model gun?

I think I the key part is single action revolver which is a nomenclature used by many gun manufacturers and very different than a semiautomatic gun that has a bolt the cycles.

Double Action Vs Single Action Triggers

A Double Action (DA) trigger allows the user to fire a pistol or revolver in two ways; either by pulling the trigger or cocking the hammer back then pulling the trigger. With a Single Action (SA) trigger, the only way the pistol or revolver can be fired is by first cocking the hammer and then pulling the trigger.

www.gun-tests.com...

I don't understand why he is the one who is being prosecuted.
Wouldn't it be the person in charge of props who would be?
How would an actor know if a prop gun had a real bullet or not?
That would be the props dept that would be responsible, I'd think.

originally posted by: Lazy88

originally posted by: KrustyKrab
As much as I dislike Baldwin and think he should be held accountable for set conditions. I still think the armorer Gutierrez is the one ultimately responsible for Halyna Hutchins death.

When you take possession of the gun it becomes your responsibility.

Not in all cases.

As an example if you were instructor on a gun range and you gave a gun to a complete novice without proper instruction the responsibility is very much still yours.

It is simply not possible for an actor to follow normal gun safety rules while making a movie, which is why proper safety processes to prevent things like this happening are needed.

To me there are 3 general possibilities.

1. Baldwin was doing his job as an actor, proper safety processes where in place but the armourer messed up.
Armourer /safety team at fault.

2.Baldwin was doing his job as an actor but proper safety processes were not in place. Armourer and production management (including Baldwin) at fault.

3. Baldwin was messing around(as prev post suggested) and safety processes not in place to prevent the accident. Baldwin at fault as actor and producer along with rest of management and armourer.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
I don't understand why he is the one who is being prosecuted.
Wouldn't it be the person in charge of props who would be?
How would an actor know if a prop gun had a real bullet or not?
That would be the props dept that would be responsible, I'd think.

Not sure if true but I have read actors are told not to check the weapons as the last person to check it should be the qualified professional.

originally posted by: visitedbythem
He is the most arrogant person I can think of.

The Trumps, Putins, Wests, Bidens, Kardashians and Taylor Swift all say hello.
Well they would but we're all beneath them..

originally posted by: BedevereTheWise

Not in all cases.

What gun range would allow you to point a working weapon at another person?


Sorry. Baldwin is the one that pointed the gun and pulled the trigger.


If your in basic training on the firing line during a live fire exercise, and one recruit points a rifle at another recruit and pulls the trigger the drill Sargent is responsible?

That’s what is messed up about Hollywood and “prop” guns. They aren’t props.

originally posted by: BedevereTheWise

originally posted by: FlyersFan
I don't understand why he is the one who is being prosecuted.
Wouldn't it be the person in charge of props who would be?
How would an actor know if a prop gun had a real bullet or not?
That would be the props dept that would be responsible, I'd think.

Not sure if true but I have read actors are told not to check the weapons as the last person to check it should be the qualified professional.

If you’re the producer of a movie and you have live ammunition on Scene then you’re responsible. Everyone should of walked off set after the knew they had live rounds there and no one cared for their safety or life . Apparently quite a few did walk off . That trump hater should get about 20 years , sounds a little light but fair I think . Quite ironic with all his talk about guns . If Baldwin cared even 1 iota about safety the lady would still be alive . So sad .

Just like the Biden’s we are going to learn about a two tiered justice system

originally posted by: Lazy88

originally posted by: BedevereTheWise

Not in all cases.

What gun range would allow you to point a working weapon at another person?


Sorry. Baldwin is the one that pointed the gun and pulled the trigger.


If your in basic training on the firing line during a live fire exercise, and one recruit points a rifle at another recruit and pulls the trigger the drill Sargent is responsible?

That’s what is messed up about Hollywood and “prop” guns. They aren’t props.

Then you better round up the cast of almost every action movie ever made for attempted murder.

If the Sargeant hasn't given basic safety instruction to the recruits then yes (althrought i think it would be the range instructor not the drill sergeant).

Handing off a weapon does not absolve you of responsibility.

originally posted by: Newbiegirly

originally posted by: BedevereTheWise

originally posted by: FlyersFan
I don't understand why he is the one who is being prosecuted.
Wouldn't it be the person in charge of props who would be?
How would an actor know if a prop gun had a real bullet or not?
That would be the props dept that would be responsible, I'd think.

Not sure if true but I have read actors are told not to check the weapons as the last person to check it should be the qualified professional.

If you’re the producer of a movie and you have live ammunition on Scene then you’re responsible. Everyone should of walked off set after the knew they had live rounds there and no one cared for their safety or life . Apparently quite a few did walk off . That trump hater should get about 20 years , sounds a little light but fair I think . Quite ironic with all his talk about guns . If Baldwin cared even 1 iota about safety the lady would still be alive . So sad .

Just like the Biden’s we are going to learn about a two tiered justice system

Not sure sentencing based on your dislike of their politics is a sound rational.

originally posted by: Lazy88

originally posted by: KrustyKrab
As much as I dislike Baldwin and think he should be held accountable for set conditions. I still think the armorer Gutierrez is the one ultimately responsible for Halyna Hutchins death.

When you take possession of the gun it becomes your responsibility.

Not on a movie set it isn’t. The people saying this are misinformed and have probably never taken a step on a movie set where weapons are involved. Do you think the actors are sitting in their trailers going through and building ammo? Do you think they’d know the difference between a dummy load and a real load unless they actually built or loaded the round? First and foremost there is no discernible difference between a dummy and a real load besides what’s inside, at least to a untrained eye. They both have bullets/projectiles. Which is why there is a trained armorer and strict safety protocols at all times with all weapons and ammo locked in a safe with ZERO live ammo on set. None of the above falls into a actors scope of work. The fact they were shooting live ammo on or around the set during down time is mind boggling to me. That was about as stupid as stupid gets. The armorer should have never allowed that to happen, period.

Pretty sure the reason they were using dummy rounds was so you could actually see the bullets in the gun. It was a straight on camera shot to my understanding.

originally posted by: KrustyKrab

originally posted by: Lazy88

originally posted by: KrustyKrab
As much as I dislike Baldwin and think he should be held accountable for set conditions. I still think the armorer Gutierrez is the one ultimately responsible for Halyna Hutchins death.

When you take possession of the gun it becomes your responsibility.

Not on a movie set it isn’t. The people saying this are misinformed and have probably never taken a step on a movie set where weapons are involved. Do you think the actors are sitting in their trailers going through and building ammo? Do you think they’d know the difference between a dummy load and a real load unless they actually built or loaded the round? First and foremost there is no discernible difference between a dummy and a real load besides what’s inside, at least to a untrained eye. They both have bullets/projectiles. Which is why there is a trained armorer and strict safety protocols at all times with all weapons and ammo locked in a safe with ZERO live ammo on set. None of the above falls into a actors scope of work. The fact they were shooting live ammo on or around the set during down time is mind boggling to me. That was about as stupid as stupid gets. The armorer should have never allowed that to happen, period.

Pretty sure the reason they were using dummy rounds was so you could actually see the bullets in the gun. It was a straight on camera shot to my understanding.

it would have had to have been with Hutchison being behind the camera and getting shot. And from what I have learned, the dummy rounds have a BB or ball bearing in the casing so if you shake the round, you can hear the rattle and know it's not a live round. (I had no idea about that prior to this incident)

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: KrustyKrab

originally posted by: Lazy88

originally posted by: KrustyKrab
As much as I dislike Baldwin and think he should be held accountable for set conditions. I still think the armorer Gutierrez is the one ultimately responsible for Halyna Hutchins death.

When you take possession of the gun it becomes your responsibility.

Not on a movie set it isn’t. The people saying this are misinformed and have probably never taken a step on a movie set where weapons are involved. Do you think the actors are sitting in their trailers going through and building ammo? Do you think they’d know the difference between a dummy load and a real load unless they actually built or loaded the round? First and foremost there is no discernible difference between a dummy and a real load besides what’s inside, at least to a untrained eye. They both have bullets/projectiles. Which is why there is a trained armorer and strict safety protocols at all times with all weapons and ammo locked in a safe with ZERO live ammo on set. None of the above falls into a actors scope of work. The fact they were shooting live ammo on or around the set during down time is mind boggling to me. That was about as stupid as stupid gets. The armorer should have never allowed that to happen, period.

Pretty sure the reason they were using dummy rounds was so you could actually see the bullets in the gun. It was a straight on camera shot to my understanding.

it would have had to have been with Hutchison being behind the camera and getting shot. And from what I have learned, the dummy rounds have a BB or ball bearing in the casing so if you shake the round, you can hear the rattle and know it's not a live round. (I had no idea about that prior to this incident)

The dummy’s I’ve seen had no BB but the bullet was not crimped to the casing and it was a slip fitting, you could take the bullet off by hand.

originally posted by: BedevereTheWise

Then you better round up the cast of almost every action movie ever made for attempted murder.

Why? Has there been a shooting resulting in death on almost every action film?

a reply to: KrustyKrab

I have never been on a set nor seen a dummy round IRL. But what I did learn, I learned from this case. Perhaps that's not the norm, but there was several articles making that claim.

In place of the powder, in a dummy round a single BB is placed inside. When you shake them you know. Also, the primer on the back is a piece of machined solid brass. These look the part but do not fire. They are sourced from the prop house or armory. On a Western set, they are everywhere. All of the gun belts are stacked with 15 to 25 rounds.

link to source

originally posted by: BedevereTheWise


Then you better round up the cast of almost every action movie ever made for attempted murder.

Which has what to do with what would happen to you if you pointed a weapon at another person on the range?

originally posted by: KrustyKrab

Not on a movie set it isn’t.

For a seen or rehearsal where the weapon and the person wilding the weapon are under the supervision of the armorer in accordance with the script and established procedures. Not when the person grabs a gun and points the weapon for horse play and kicks out of the control and possession of the armorer.

Should the armorer be resolved from live ammunition being on the set no.

And what should happen to the person who hired and was in charge of the armorer. And who was that?

What I find odd? The revolver being single action, someone had to willfully pull the hammer back. Technically if Baldwin was pulling the hammer back and it slipped, the hammer could have had enough force to droop and fire the weapon without pulling the trigger. But once the hammer is locked back in the firing position, the trigger would have to be pulled back. Or the weapon could discharge if it was jarred hard enough in someway like hitting the ground after being dropped.

originally posted by: Lazy88

originally posted by: BedevereTheWise


Then you better round up the cast of almost every action movie ever made for attempted murder.

Which has what to do with what would happen to you if you pointed a weapon at another person on the range?

It's to do with pointing what you believe to be a safe prop at someone. The subject of this thread.

originally posted by: Lazy88

originally posted by: BedevereTheWise

Then you better round up the cast of almost every action movie ever made for attempted murder.

Why? Has there been a shooting resulting in death on almost every action film?

Did you miss where I typed attempted?

Action movies involve people not following normal gun safety rules. The thing you seem to think makes Bakdwin guilty.

The only difference being that there was a live round in this case. That isn't responsibility of the actor.

As I have said repeatedly may well be responsible for the safety failures leading to that happening.