UK - Elderly 'Do Not Attempt Resuscitation' as standard

originally posted by: Partridge
I've removed the name of the hospital as I'm unsure of the legals. Equally, I know the hospital and have a high regard for the standard of care.

Ok this was a post on Facebook -

"I found out today after visiting my mother in XXXXXNHS Hospital and finding a DNAR (Do Not Attempt Resuscitation) form on her records that it's become common practice for hospital doctors to fill out these forms routinely. This is the 2nd time it's happened.

So be aware, if you have an elderly or very sick loved one in hospital they may well of had one of these forms completed without there knowledge or consent."

I haven't seen this get publicity before, but IF true it is, I think a big thing, so I'm giving it some.

Anyone else heard of this in the UK?

Yes, They are not only not willing to resuscitate they are killing with the use of drugs. Particularly Midazolam.

a reply to: Partridge

The fact is the NHS does try and put geriatrics and ailing pensioners they judge to be on their way out the door, who enter into our hospital system, on to DNR orders.

My mum and aunt had to fight with them on 4 occasions to have them removed from my gran's(her mother's) bedside charts/notes.

To the tune of nearly being arrested twice, and asked to leave the building under penalty of being forcibly removed by authorities.

My Mum told the daft doctor she would follow her home, find out where she stayed, and proceed to kill her mother, should the order remain on my gran's chart.

My grandmother recovered 4 times from Pneumonia when we were told that she would die, going on a few years later to pass away peacefully at home(91).

If you fight them, they will back down, thing is some of the poor old sods don't have relatives there to fight in their corner.

Technically they are trying to do right because of the strain and stress the likes of resuscitation can place on a pensioner's body can be rather extreme and cause other extensive damage like breaking bones or internal bleeding.

That doesn't make it correct all the same to withhold life-giving care if the person wants to live by my guess.

Stuff going quietly into any night, would be my thinking being on the matter.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Partridge

thing is some of the poor old sods don't have relatives there to fight in their corner.

The thing is, Some Family members just see the inheritance and the old one as a burden anyway. Also, we're risking everything with the chance of the government taking the lot if the old one needs to go into a home.

Do you think this scenario above never plays out? It's happening more than you know. Covid highlighted it more and I have no doubt some would even have used Covid as a get-out-of-jail-free card for bumping off the family burden and getting their hands on the precious sooner than expected.

a reply to: ohahhupthera

Yeah, i don't subscribe to the COVID 19 Midazolam nonsense im afraid.

I know people who work in care homes as well as a multitude of others who work in NHS and they were not killing old folk off with Midazolam and/or morphine during the pandemic.

They did not need to as the virus was doing that just fine, unfortunately.

You're free to choose to believe as you wish all the same but the majority of people who work for our beloved NHS are good people, there to keep us alive and well, and to help those who require medical care and attention.

The thing is, Some Family members just see the inheritance and the old one as a burden anyway.

You're bang on the money with the above sentence all the same, some people are like vultures, as unfortunate as the case may be.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: ohahhupthera

Yeah, i don't subscribe to the COVID 19 Midazolam nonsense im afraid.

I know people who work in care homes as well as a multitude of others who work in NHS and they were not killing old folk off with Midazolam and/or morphine during the pandemic.

Care homes are not the NHS. If Care homes have no patients they have no income, everyone gets laid off and the owner goes out of business.

The NHS is the exact opposite. The more Patients they have the less money they have for managerial bonuses. I'm not even sure a care home can administer Midazolam and Morphine cocktails anyway. If a patient becomes ill in a care home is it not the responsibility of the care home to call an ambulance anyway?

If you don't buy the "Midazolam Nonsense" Walk into any hospital where an older person walks in with breathing difficulties due to pneumonia or something. Go have a look at the charts, I can guarantee you you'll find that cocktail of drugs on their charts.

I've dealt with the NHS for long enough to know it can be quite a corrupt organization when it needs to be. They cover each other's backs whenever something negligent has happened and cover up what can only be described as assisted suicide without the patient's permission. ie, Murder by a combination of drugs.

This was all going on before Covid but covid gave them the chance to up those numbers exponentially. Who was ever going to question it?

The Patient had a Deadly Virus that killed old people anyway...like the flu does only this one was all over the news, In every spoken word, every breath, every touch, it was the beast under your bed, in your closet, In Your _____?

A friend's father died in 2022. His funeral was delayed for over 6 weeks because the Hospital and the ambulance service were arguing about where he died (hospital or Ambulance) and neither wanted to take responsibility and sign off on the old bugger.

The NHS is being destroyed to be replaced by private healthcare. It's been going on for decades. Death by a thousand cuts. There will still be an NHS for the poor. You are starting to witness what that will be like. Similar to a third-world country limited healthcare.

Either get fit and healthy, find a job with a good pension plan, or get Rich... or accept what's coming to you.

a reply to: ohahhupthera

The thing is i don't just know people who work in the care homes, but also doctors, nurses, managers(the worst), and other staff who work in a multitude of different positions within the NHS.

You're correct the NHS is being destroyed to be replaced by private healthcare, and we only have the Tories to blame there.

However, there is no credible evidence to support the claim that the NHS attempted to kill the elderly with Midazolam during the COVID-19 crisis other than that of the anecdotal sorts.

Such assertions are baseless and unfounded im afarid.

Else I'm sure you will be able to provide tangible facts and evidence that prove otherwise.

I've got mixed feelings about the NHS ohahhupthera, but again the majority of the staff are there to help, not to murder and kill old people.

As to what's coming, well we only have ourselves to blame there, considering the majority voted for it, or so im led to believe.

Now back on topic, it's clear where i stand on them placing DNRs on the elderly, especially so by any sort of default position.

originally posted by: nugget1
a reply to: tanstaafl
Do you hate mentally challenged people?

Are you seriously equating people who voluntarily choose to abdicate their own personal responsibility for their own lives, to people who have real, actual, mental defects that prevent them from being able to reason at a higher level?

Sorry, all you're doing is making excuses for grown adult human beings who have only themselves to blame.

I do absolutely also hold those in power and who are responsible for the psychological warfare they have been waging on the entire worlds population, but the fact that you and I are having this conversation is proof that all one has to do is have the willingness and fortitude to choose to think for themselves to start breaking free of their chains.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Are you seriously equating people who voluntarily choose to abdicate their own personal responsibility for their own lives, to people who have real, actual, mental defects that prevent them from being able to reason at a higher level?

My gran was unaware that DNRs had been placed on her whilst she was in the hospital, they don't always ask them.

And also on occasion are unable to ask depending on the state of the patient.

Which is another reason that DNRs should never be considered or put in place by default.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: tanstaafl

My gran was unaware that DRNs had been placed on her whilst she was in the hospital, they don't always ask them, and also on occasion are unable to ask depending on the state of the patient.

Hopefully your Gran wasn't murdered by them as a result of this dastardly evil wicked deed.

The elderly especially need to have their families their advocating for them, no question, but the elderly are also often mentally impaired to some extent (not saying your Gran was, but my Mom sure is right now, early stages of dementia).

a reply to: tanstaafl

Hopefully your Gran wasn't murdered by them as a result of this dastardly evil wicked deed.

Naw she died in her own home(91) with me the Mrs and kids around her, but it was unfortunately down to pneumonia, 5th time the charm, unfortunately.

The poor woman was completely senile and had dementia by then, which i would not even begin to go into the horrors of such, sometimes death is a mercy.

The elderly especially need to have their families their advocating for them, no question, but the elderly are also often mentally impaired to some extent (not saying your Gran was, but my Mom sure is right now, early stages of dementia).

I feel for you tanstaafl, all you will be able to do is be there for her and remember who she really is and that you love her.

Good luck buddy and all the best to your Mom.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: tanstaafl
Naw she died in her own home(91) with me the Mrs and kids around her, but it was unfortunately down to pneumonia, 5th time the charm, unfortunately.

I'm sorry for your loss, but happy that she died surrounded by those who loved her.

I feel for you tanstaafl, all you will be able to do is be there for her and remember who she really is and that you love her.

Good luck buddy and all the best to your Mom.

Thanks very much, it is truly appreciated. My brothers and I are fighting (good naturedly) about who will be taking her in if/when the time comes. Right now, my Dad is able to take care of her, but he is 88 and not in very good shape physically, but most worrisome is he is very prone to an extremely bad cough that often turns into pneumonia.

Anyway, regardless of what happens, they will both be in good hands, and no way will they ever have to go in some home.