A trip down impeachment memory lane

Remember when Trump was impeached the first time? It's like it was just yesterday. Yes, he was impeached by the democrats for something.
torres.house.gov...

Timeline

Since 2014, the United States has provided nearly $1.5 billion worth of military aid to Ukraine to help them fight off Russia which invaded the country in August of that year.

By July 2019, the Trump Administration had not delivered nearly $400 million in US support – including weapons, training and advisors – that Congress had previously approved for Ukraine's continued efforts.

On July 25th, 2019, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky asked about the aid on a phone call with President Trump, to which Trump now infamously responded, "I want you to do us a favor though." Trump asked the Ukrainian President to investigate Vice President Joe Biden – a potential political opponent in the 2020 presidential election. Withholding desperately-needed military aid for a political favor is, by definition, a quid pro quo.

On September 26, 2019, the White House released a summary of the phone call that confirms President Trump's effort to pressure the Ukrainian president into searching for political dirt on Vice President Joe Biden.

On October 17, 2019, Mick Mulvaney, President Trump's acting Chief of Staff, admitted at a White House news conference that President Trump froze the military aid in an effort to pressure Ukraine into investigating Democrats. After confirming the existence of a quid pro quo, Mulvaney said: "Get over it."

My, that sounds bad. To use money to pressure another country into doing something sure was wrong. And Trump was actually impeached for it.

So it seems we have established that if you use money promised, to force another country into doing something you want them to do, it's wrong and impeachable. Ok. I'm not sure I agree, but those are the rules. And they have precedent.

but wait, son of a bitch, I have a question.



How is this different? It seems an awful lot like Joe Biden forced Ukraine to do something or he wouldn't give them the money. From here, it looks very similar. Perhaps someone can explain what's different about it and why it's not an impeachable offence.

a reply to: network dude

I think you're missing the point; Orange man bad, Biden good

Biden was just doing his job, Trump was colluding against America.

a reply to: PorkChop96

of course I know that. Orange is a frightening color, couple that with bad hair and a giant ego and you have "literally Hitler".
I just think it's amusing to point out the hypocrisy that abounds.

a reply to: network dude

It's in favor of the left, there is no way it is hypocrisy.

I think you just need to check your confirmation bias and rethink what right and wrong is.

a reply to: PorkChop96

that's obviously what it is. Can't believe I didn't see it.

a reply to: network dude

I'm glad you were able to see the error of your ways.

Now we can have a real and genuine discussion about how much we all love Biden and how Trump is the anti-Christ.


But seriously, the left will see nothing wrong with what they are doing and will not falter and say that what Biden did is anywhere near the same as what Trump did.

a reply to: PorkChop96

I'm such an ass, I want to see them say it.

a reply to: network dude

That's not proof of any crime.
But hey you got em right!?!
Didn't you claim some months back that Biden was toast and gave a great example of how silly your argument was? Then I believe in that same thread told everyone about how vindictive you feel?
Ya that was you.

originally posted by: network dude

So it seems we have established that if you use money promised, to force another country into doing something you want them to do, it's wrong and impeachable. Ok. I'm not sure I agree, but those are the rules. And they have precedent.

How is this different? It seems an awful lot like Joe Biden forced Ukraine to do something or he wouldn't give them the money. From here, it looks very similar. Perhaps someone can explain what's different about it and why it's not an impeachable offence.

There is a big difference here.

Let's say that Trump's impeachment sets precedence. The problem is Trump did not actually withhold anything. Ukraine said the funds were never frozen nor were they told they would be frozen, and other than the call no further discussions were made about looking into Biden. Biden was also not even a candidate yet, so how do they go down the path of election meddling?

Now with Biden, he made real threats to withhold directly to the leader if the prosecutor was not fired. Biden even bragged about it on video that he would have held back all of it if they didn't do what he demanded them to do.

Come forward to 2023 and so we see firing the prosecutor protected Biden and his son, and they did have illegal dealings in Ukraine and other places like Russia and China in a pay-to-play scenario.

The big question is if Biden is impeached does that erase Trump's first one for just asking the question that Biden should be looked into?

a reply to: Xtrozero

Or if you support Biden being impeached for this does that mean you then support Trump being impeached?
Double edged sword bud

originally posted by: Allaroundya4k

That's not proof of any crime.
But hey you got em right!?!
Didn't you claim some months back that Biden was toast and gave a great example of how silly your argument was? Then I believe in that same thread told everyone about how vindictive you feel?
Ya that was you.

The big question is what do you think about Biden after all we have seen? Are you just going to say something like well he hasn't been convicted of anything yet. Do you also believe OJ was innocent, or there is no crime unless the court convicts? A pusher on the streets selling dope for 10 years is not a crime unless they are convicted.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Great deflection.
I don't support Biden as I have made clear on numerous occasions.
But if you support a VP getting impeached for this and don't support a former sitting POTUS for the same crime then you sir are a hypocritical individual.

a reply to: Allaroundya4k

Trump already was.......

Or did you gloss over that fact to hate on him?

originally posted by: Allaroundya4k

Or if you support Biden being impeached for this does that mean you then support Trump being impeached?
Double edged sword bud

The big question is did Trump do a quid pro quo if no funds were frozen, or Ukraine were never told the funds would be frozen, with even the President of Ukraine saying they got it all while not doing anything about Biden?

All they had was the phone call and weak hearsay with zero actions.

I feel like you are asking me that if a person is tried for murder and didn't do it, and another person was tried for murder with 100 people watching them kill a person I must support both if I support one...

Trump was impeached for just asking to look into Biden, the rest was invented to push the impeachment.

a reply to: Xtrozero

So Biden saying call my boss is proof of a crime?
But a phone calls audio is not?
Stop deflecting from my question.

originally posted by: Allaroundya4k
a reply to: Xtrozero

Or if you support Biden being impeached for this does that mean you then support Trump being impeached?
Double edged sword bud

Trump had no interests or family members involved with Ukraine businesses.

Biden did (does?) 😃

Can you figure the difference? 👁‍🗨👃👁‍🗨

originally posted by: Allaroundya4k

Great deflection.
I don't support Biden as I have made clear on numerous occasions.
But if you support a VP getting impeached for this and don't support a former sitting POTUS for the same crime then you sir are a hypocritical individual.

I didn't suggest you supported Biden... I asked what do you think about his case. I think in both cases if they did wrong then they should be investigated. Just because Trump was impeached doesn't make it any less than a dog and pony show for theatric reasons only.

But it does set presidencies when we look at Biden who made quid pro quo by direct threats to the Ukraine President and actions were taken on those threats as the prosecutor was fired directly because of those threats, and Biden confirmed the whole story on video.

So now if you can show me that Trump made threats to withhold 400 million, and the Ukraine President says that he did make threats, and Ukraine investigated Biden to get the fund released then yes I'll say that Trump did quid pro quo too.

Can you?

originally posted by: Allaroundya4k
a reply to: Xtrozero

Or if you support Biden being impeached for this does that mean you then support Trump being impeached?
Double edged sword bud

It doesn't matter who supports it, Trump was already impeached. If you want to look like a hero, you can explain why Biden's thing was totally different. Unless it wasn't, which was the point.

originally posted by: Allaroundya4k
a reply to: Xtrozero

Or if you support Biden being impeached for this does that mean you then support Trump being impeached?
Double edged sword bud

Silly rabbit.

It's not about support, it's about the standards that were set. Precedent if you will.


From jailing political rivals to putting them through the justice system.

originally posted by: Allaroundya4k

So Biden saying call my boss is proof of a crime?
But a phone calls audio is not?
Stop deflecting from my question.

Trump didn't say he would withhold 400 million in the call, so not sure what you are talking about here. He asked if he could look into the Biden's and son's dealings as something strange is going on there. That was it in an open call. Ukranes said no one told them any funds would be frozen for any reason, so what do you mean?

Biden on tape said that he told the President if he didn't fire the prosecutor in the next 6 hours he was getting on his airplane with the 1 billion. Within 6 hours the prosecutor was fired and Ukraine received their funds. Biden did say that the President told him he could not freeze the funds and Biden told him to call Obama then and he would freeze them. Joe was very proud of this event BTW.