The Hard Truth Of September Eleventh.

Originally posted by TxSecret
OMG.. I can't belive that any of you still believe building 7 actually fell on its own accord. I've collected a bunch of photos and videos of the building prior to and of the collapse. Where is all this major damage some of you mention located? I've seen every face of the building in pictures and unless someone is doing some major photo shop "fixing up" of these pictures I just don't get it.

Please show us these photos and videos please! I'm eager to see them!
Wow, how did you get them btw? No one, not even police officers and firemen were able to get to or see the south side of the buildings in that area, yet you have photos and videos! Amazing!

If you study any of the videos that are available, you can definately see the south face (the side with the most damage) collapse first.

Also if you know anything about imploding buildings. They usually do it by either a series of explosions timed just right, or by placing the explosives on certain floors. There is no evidence of any explosives going off at any time.

Also, the building was on fire. Why would they start a fire? Fire causes structual damage. So you have damage from the collapses and now damage from the fires. In order to have a controlled demo, everything needs to just right or it's not going to work. That's fact.
And what type of explosives did they use? They had to use some able to withstand fire, pressure, stress. It had to be strong enough to bring down a building yet with an explosion small enough not to be detected. So....what did they use?


Amazing and funny how all of a sudden people become demo and engineering experts based on what the read (on internet sites that are more than questionable), and not on what they actually studied and analyzed first hand.

timeline of Sept 11th events

8:45 a.m Flight 11 crashes into the North Tower

9:03 a.m Flight 175 crashes into the South Tower

9:03 a.m Building WTC 6 implodes

10:05 a.m South Tower collapses

10:28 a.m North Tower collapses

4:10 p.m WTC 7 reported on fire

5:20 p.m WTC 7 building implodes

How did WTC 6 implode BEFORE the South/North Towers collapsed?

Reports of fire in WTC 7 was roughly 1 hour before the building perfectly imploded. For the building to collapse in this fashion, all of the load bearing supports would have had to fail at exactly the same time. If the collapse was the result of a fire, it would require the fire to be equally distributed throughout the entire floor of the building, providing equal heat for an equal amount of time, so that all the load bearings members would fail at the exact same moment.

Do you find this plausible? It's great knowing the architects of WTC 7 designed it like a house of cards!

[edit on 15-4-2005 by syntaxer]

Originally posted by syntaxer
timeline of Sept 11th events

8:45 a.m Flight 11 crashes into the North Tower

9:03 a.m Flight 175 crashes into the South Tower

9:03 a.m Building WTC 6 implodes

10:05 a.m South Tower collapses

10:28 a.m North Tower collapses

4:10 p.m WTC 7 reported on fire

5:20 p.m WTC 7 building implodes

How did WTC 6 implode BEFORE the South/North Towers collapsed?

Please stop....

Here I posted a link with the real timeline of the events of that day. It's very detailed, so enjoy.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

WTC 6 didn't "implode" btw. It was destoyed by the collaspse of tower 1. And it CERTAINLY didn't implode at 9:03. Where in the world did you hear that from??

Reports of fire in WTC 7 was roughly 1 hour before the building perfectly imploded.

It didn't implode. Implosion would suggest it collapsed in on it self. The building just fell.

For the building to collapse in this fashion, all of the load bearing supports would have had to fail at exactly the same time. If the collapse was the result of a fire, it would require the fire to be equally distributed throughout the entire floor of the building, providing equal heat for an equal amount of time, so that all the load bearings members would fail at the exact same moment.

Where did you hear/get this from? Serious question. Did you get a chance to analyze it too?

From a ealier post in this thread.

But NIST's analysis suggests the fall of WTC 7 was an example of "progressive collapse," a process in which the failure of parts of a structure ultimately creates strains that cause the entire building to come down. Videos of the fall of WTC 7 show cracks, or "kinks," in the building's facade just before the two penthouses disappeared into the structure, one after the other. The entire building fell in on itself, with the slumping east side of the structure pulling down the west side in a diagonal collapse.

According to NIST, there was one primary reason for the building's failure: In an unusual design, the columns near the visible kinks were carrying exceptionally large loads, roughly 2000 sq. ft. of floor area for each floor. "What our preliminary analysis has shown is that if you take out just one column on one of the lower floors," Sunder notes, "it could cause a vertical progression of collapse so that the entire section comes down."
There are two other possible contributing factors still under investigation: First, trusses on the fifth and seventh floors were designed to transfer loads from one set of columns to another. With columns on the south face apparently damaged, high stresses would likely have been communicated to columns on the building's other faces, thereby exceeding their load-bearing capacities.
Second, a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours. "There was no firefighting in WTC 7," Sunder says. Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel that many tenants used to run emergency generators. Most tanks throughout the building were fairly small, but a generator on the fifth floor was connected to a large tank in the basement via a pressurized line. Says Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time."
WTC 7 might have withstood the physical damage it received, or the fire that burned for hours, but those combined factors--along with the building's unusual construction--were enough to set off the chain-reaction collapse.

Do you find this plausible?

It's great knowing the architects of WTC 7 designed it like a house of cards!

When was the last time you say a skyscraper tip over and fall horizantally?
Not any modern ones. They're built to fall in (if they ever do fall).

How do you find it plausible that (insert name) decided that building 7 needs to fall, so (insert name) calls the demo people, the demo people come out, they do all the research, get and place the explosives, and bring it down all with the building unstable and on fire and all within a matter of hours? And with two huge skyscrapers falling around them making access to at least one side of the building impossible.

a lot of bull. Investigating wierd pilots in a flight school back in the bad day would be called racism and ethnic profiling and probably a law suit from the ACLU. Also the former president did commit a crime and the FBI helped expose it.

ThatsJustWeird, do you not read the thread?

You say.. "Please show us these photos and videos please! I'm eager to see them! "

Look at the pictures posted priori and take a look at this site.. there are videos of the bulding 7 "implosion" everywhere.

You say the building just "FELL" GIVE ME A BREAK.

Let's look at the definition of implosion as per the American Heritage Dictionary:



NOUN:

1. A violent collapse inward, as of a highly evacuated glass vessel.
2. Violent compression.
3. The INWARD COLLAPSE of a building that is BEING DEMOLISHED in a CONTROLLED FASHION by the weakening and breaking of structural members by EXPLOSIVES.
4. Linguistics The pronunciation of a stop consonant with the breath drawn in.

You can't honestly sit here and tell us that building 7 fell the way it did unless it was by controlled demolition. Why do demoltion experts spend tons of time and money wiring a building very specifically with specialized explosives.. (Thermite, a cutting charge, being one of them which has powdered aluminum: this makes it burn VERY hot. 2000+C to be exact) WHY?? because they don' want the building to fall OUTWARD or in ANY other direction except INWARD.. they want to IMPLODE IT. If you honestly think that building 7 fell the way it did PERFECTLY on it's own you truly are dilusional. Here is some more links.. LOOK at them before you post any more. Like I said before there are tons of pictures and videos outt here to look at concerning building 7. Which leads me to this curious statement you made:

"Please show us these photos and videos please! I'm eager to see them!
Wow, how did you get them btw? No one, not even police officers and firemen were able to get to or see the south side of the buildings in that area, yet you have photos and videos! Amazing!

If you study any of the videos that are available, you can definately see the south face (the side with the most damage) collapse first. "

OK,, if police officers and firemen were not able to get to or see the south side of the building how on earth did someone get the video of the building collapsing to begin with and you laughably mention after that:

"If you study any of the videos that are available, you can definately see the SOUTH face (the side with the most damage) collapse first. " ((Oops, didn't you say that no one had accesss to the south side of building 7 at this time?))

Anyone in their right mind will notice, while watching the video of building 7 "collapsing" that the WHOLE thing IMPLODES in on itself. If the south side "fell first" like you said it did then it would have fallen towards the south and away from it's center. The FACT is and you can see it on video is that it falls in on ITSELF.. why can't you just accept that?

Like I said earlier, look at these sites before you post again and save us some grief.

www.whatreallyhappened.com...
www.libertyforum.org...
thewebfairy.com...

OH, and one more thing. If you look at some aerial photos of the whole site after all the buildings fell you will notice that buildings 5 and 6 which were right in FRONT of building 7 (and inbetween it and 1/2) you will notice that they are still sitting pretty. (Buidling 6 being gutted suspiciously but STILL standing) and you sit here and tell us that building 7 just fell?? OK
I'll stop for now.

[edit on 15-4-2005 by TxSecret]

This is getting sad.

Originally posted by TxSecret
ThatsJustWeird, do you not read the thread?
Look at the pictures posted priori and take a look at this site.. there are videos of the bulding 7 "implosion" everywhere.

?
You said you have seen videos and pictures from all sides. I want to see those. The only videos and pics I have seen show the north (even the site you like shows that there are no pics showing the south - or east). That's because two sky scrapers that were reduced to a pile of burning rubble blocked any way to get to the other side.

You say the building just "FELL" GIVE ME A BREAK.

No it collapsed on itself. The only way a building of that shape and size, considering where the damage and fires were, could have fell. Same goes for most modern skyscrapers. What was it going to do? Explode?

You can't honestly sit here and tell us that building 7 fell the way it did unless it was by controlled demolition.

Actually if you knew anything about this stuff, you would know it can.

Why do demoltion experts spend tons of time and money wiring a building very specifically with specialized explosives..

That's what I've been saying!!
It takes tons of time to set all that up! And they explosives HAVE to be in the right spots. You're telling me they had time to do all that?
You're telling me the explosives weren't damaged in the fires or the damage cause by the debris?

If you honestly think that building 7 fell the way it did PERFECTLY on it's own you truly are dilusional.

1. It wasn't perfect. Look at the close ups.
2. You're dillusional if you think they could have planed for that and carried it out, in that short of time with only access to maybe not even half the building.

OK,, if police officers and firemen were not able to get to or see the south side of the building how on earth did someone get the video of the building collapsing to begin with and you laughably mention after that:

What?
All videos of the incident were taken from the north. On the close ups you can see the back side of the building slide down first.

Not really sure what you're saying...

Anyone in their right mind will notice, while watching the video of building 7 "collapsing" that the WHOLE thing IMPLODES in on itself.

No it doesn't.
An implosion........implodes. It comes in on itself not fall straight down like 7 did. It was a collapse caused by chain reactions.

OH, and one more thing. If you look at some aerial photos of the whole site after all the buildings fell you will notice that buildings 5 and 6 which were right in FRONT of building 7 (and inbetween it and 1/2) you will notice that they are still sitting pretty. (Buidling 6 being gutted suspiciously but STILL standing) and you sit here and tell us that building 7 just fell?? .

Which is it? Building 6 sitting pretty or Building 6 being gutted?

Look at the picture I posted earlier of the buildings in relation to each other. Building 5 and 6 were FAR from "sitting pretty". Those buildings btw were flat and had much wider bases. 7 was the tallest building in the direct way of 1's debris.



**
Here's a good site about implosions (they even have a WTC section).
implosionworld.com...

ed. to fix BB code

[edit on 15-4-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]

Unless your head has been in your anus since the attack, the only deduction that can be made by a rational person is that this is something that was long-time planned by the shadows of this government, this president was used due to his lack of intelligence, or willingness to participate for this most important event.

From then on things have been off and running. Control this, control that, the frisking at airports, the no fly lists, bla bla bla, patriot acts, you name it, its been done and being done. Anyone with a pea size brain must know that when something like that happens, and millions are entering this country illigally, and we have so much at stake, whats the first thing you do?
YOU PUT THE MILITARY ON THE BORDERS. You close down the US.
But what does this pathetic government do? They leave the borders wide open, and invite all the unwanteds in. THEN we can have terror alerts, and start looking for Jack Shiit, who may be a terrorist and may be armed.
The whole thing insults MY intelligence, as it should yours.

The goal of this government is to create total chaos. And they're accomplishing it every day. The more chaos the better.
The terror threats are now getting old and stale, so what happens? A lab in THE UNITED STATES sends out thousands of lethal vials of a flu all over the world. My, this is terrifying.

Why all the terror mongering? One World Order. Thats it. Millions must die in order to implement this. There are those like me who "know" what the feck is going on- We must be eradicated.

I know, i'm loaded for bear, but feel free to take me on and call me a liar and that i;m making all thiis up. Today is the day.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
I still haven't seen people discuss time. It takes time to:
1. Find, talk to, and negotiate with a demo company
2. Study the layout of the building to see how best to implode it
3. Study the floorplans to see where to place the explosives
4. Gather the explosives
5. Place the explosives in the right spots.

Are you telling me they were able to do that all in a matter of hours? Inside a burning building? When everything surrounding that area was in chaos?....

what part of "orchestrated" do you not understand? obviously if its premeditated then there would be plenty of time to prepare --lets not forget the govt already has their demo connection--they even have experience in covert demo operations when you take into account the oklahoma murrah building!

The contractor who is reported to have been the first on the WTC collapse scene to cart away the rubble that remains is a company that specializes in the scientific demolition of large buildings, Controlled Demolition, Inc. (CDI) of Baltimore, headed by Mark Loizeaux.

CDI is the same contractor that demolished and hauled away the shell of the bombed Oklahoma City Murrah building, actions that prevented independent investigators from pursuing evidence on leads suggesting that there were bombs set off inside the building.
www.rense.com...

someone else tried to imply that design differences were the reason that the wtc failed and the windsor tower didnt--they were both made of concrete and steel period--the facts are the designer himself minoura yamasaki claimed the buildings were designed to take multiple hits from 707's which contain "more" potential energy that 767's--kevin ryan released a press statement discrediting the reports of structural failure due to fire of "any" kind--bill manning of firefighter engineering magazine admitted the absolute lunacy in the govt's policy of hinderig the investigation as well as destroying evidence--louie cacchioli a firefighter and eyewitness was quoted affirming his belief that he heard bombs going off and stated that they were "just like the type used in the demolition of a building" --the credentials do not get any better than that


[edit on 15-4-2005 by Sunofone]

[edit on 15-4-2005 by Sunofone]

Some do it out of denial, because they are fearful, that the order of things they were brought up to believe in, isn't quite how it is, and they can't face the facts of mass-murdering criminals at the top controlling their society

And some are paid to

Sort the wheat from the chaff

Originally posted by dh
Some do it out of denial, because they are fearful, that the order of things they were brought up to believe in, isn't quite how it is, and they can't face the facts of mass-murdering criminals at the top controlling their society
And some are paid to
Sort the wheat from the chaff

You have voted dh for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

boy have you got that right

[edit on 15/4/2005 by Sauron]

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
First of all Al-Queada is not a "Country" - it is a World Wide Network of Islamic Jihadi Extremists. Secondly our Country has even More Enemies than just Al-Queada! Third - Republicans PLEASE stop constantly Blaming Clinton for the Poor Economy & Terrorism that has taken place *during the BUSH Administrations watch*! When Clinton tried to Blow Up Bin Laden you called it "Monica Missiles"!

Yes "Spliff4020" - I think that you are right! I think that the *MASS INCOMPENTENCE* & Political Partisan Bickering Waste of Time is more to Blame for us Not having a Clue about the 9/11 Attack coming than the Conspiracy Theories (actually I believe that they knew Something was coming & that Planes & the WTC have been Targets before - they just couldn't piece it together in time) - which is still pretty SAD if you think about it!

What's trully sad is the real reason the attacks were so successful, political correctnes. Obviuosly, arab men travelling on one way tickets with no luggage??? Anybody travelling one way without luggage should be questioned.


edited to clarify post, reply embedded in quote

[edit on 16-4-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]

No wierdy.. Your the one that's sad, but I digress. I don't want to stoop to the flame troll level. There are a lot of folks who just can't see the obvious but that is their loss and I suspect you are going to find yourself in the minority here. Moving on. Building 7 is of course just the tip of the ice berg.. Lest we not forget the Pentagon. Will be starting a thread on that soon.

I don't know, I just find it easier to believe myself who was fairly close to some of the action, who knows stuff that hasn't been released to the public yet, who knows and has talked to people who knows stuff that hasn't been released to the public yet, who has been to the sites, and who has studied and researched them, to me that's easier to believe than someone who happened to get some web space and started posting a bunch of stuff even though they have no idea what they're talking about. Most of these people have never even been to the sites, most don't even live near the sites. And ALL have already had some form of anti-government mindset and bias long before 9/11 even took place, meaning none of the websites will offer a balanced view.

If you want to believe off balanced, evidence and credibility lacking websites over first hand experience and expert opinion then go ahead. You can do whatever you want. But remember, try not to believe everything you read and also remember the internet can be a powerful twisting tool. You can convince anyone of anything over the net (look at the Heaven's Gate incident). Just remeber that.

Well for all of you who insist on this being a huge plot on behalf of our government, then heres my question..WHY? Why would they? Go to war in Iraq? No way. They could do that easily, and it was never used as an excuse. Patriot Act? You mean to tell me that you believe that they would kill 3000 innocent people to pass a bill? PUHLEASE. WRONG WRONG WRONG.

What you people fail to understand is how much money is made off of you going to all these sites like Alex Jones and Rense, and clicking all of their links. I mean, if they wanted the real estate, then why not take them down when they are empty? Werent they the lieast bit worried about law suits taking all of their profits?

Nope, I dont buy into it. There is just no rational reason. Roosevelt let us be brought into WW2, but that was a neccesity. There is nothing like that going on now. Not even close. If we wanted to invade someone, we would. Not some shadow organization from half way around the world. They would have balmed it on IRAQ! Christ people, get a clue. The world hates us and is jealous as hell over us. They want nothing more than to kill all of us.

Those who believe our own government did this are way off. Your buying into the propaganda started by them. They want you to turn on your own people. Its the only way to fight us here. Dont believe the hype. Whats a snippet here and there going to show you? Whatever they want it to. As far as Im concerned AJ and the rest are traitors to this country.

Originally posted by spliff4020
Patriot Act? You mean to tell me that you believe that they would kill 3000 innocent people to pass a bill? PUHLEASE. WRONG WRONG WRONG.

why not? i noticed you are an instant nay sayer of all things conspiratorial. suspicious.
"WRONG WRONG WRONG", is not an argument.
it is more than just the patriot act. it is the shift from democracy to dictatorship. it happened already. all hail the leader. the leader is good.

Originally posted by spliff4020
What you people fail to understand is how much money is made off of you going to all these sites like Alex Jones and Rense, and clicking all of their links.

what about the profits of the carlyle group, raytheon or haliburton et al.? the money from the sale of a single missile would easily match the pitance that rense and alex jones may be EARNING.
just because you don't want to believe what they are saying, does not mean it isn't true.

Originally posted by spliff4020
The world hates us and is jealous as hell over us. They want nothing more than to kill all of us.

talk about propaganda. jeez. this is an inane reason, in my opinion, to try and apply to the motivation of 'terrorists'. if there are even any REAL terrorists(as in, not CIA trained puppets), their motivation is that america is messing with their economy, power structures and autonomy. the states isn't motivated by philanthropy. profit is the only reason america does anything in other countries.

Originally posted by spliff4020
Those who believe our own government did this are way off. Your buying into the propaganda started by them.

right back at you. how can you think this after gannongate? propoganda? it is PROVEN that the bush regime is producing it's own propoganda. those who believe that a small group of powerful people WITHIN the government DIDN'T do this are way off. so there.

It's a paradigm shift from pre-911 to now Everything's changed and it permeates well deep into the culture and effects every aspect of our lives
This wouldn't have been accepted, the very deep intrusion into our lives, before. It's a result of the shell-shock. You can't remember how it was back before, therefore you accept the inevitability
The trauma-based mind control has created a new altar for you en masse
Sucker!

What group of people in the government were planning this for years, waiting to get a gulible president into office to pull it off?

How did the group of people in the government who were planning this for years pull it off?

How did they get airliners, outfit them with missiles and remote controls, and fly them into the buildings?

Did these people in government do all this work by themselves or did they have other people do this work for them?

Who was it that did the work for these people in the government that planned all of this?

Where did they store the airliners for all the years that they had this planned but were waiting for a gullible president?

CDI is a very well known demolition company. They have done work all over the world and hold many world records for demolitions they do. It takes them months to prepare a building for demolition, and it involves drilling thousands of holes into the steel and cement structural supports of the building, placing thousands of charges in them, and then wiring the whole thing so that they detonate in the right sequence at the right time. How did CDI pull this off before 9/11 without anyone knowing?

What type of company would you hire to clear the rubble of demolished buildings? The only companies that do that are the ones who demolish buildings themselves.

Are there things inside office buildings that are flamable and will explode in fire that may sound like demolition charges? Fuel containers for emergency generators? Cans of paint, paint strippers, cleaning chemicals, bottles of hair spray in desk drawers, CRT's from television screens and computer monitors, spray cans, etc.?

If dictatorship was the goal of this group of government people who planned this out for so long but had to wait for a gullible president to be in office to pull it off, why didn't they blame it on domestic terrorists, a militia group, etc.? Why blame it on a well known terrorist group who had attacked the same building 9 years earlier? Wouldn't the patriot act have been stronger if Americans thought other Americans did this? Wouldn't that pit Americans against themselves and make everyone suspicious of their neighbors instead of creating the tremendous wave of patriotism that occurred after 9/11?

Why didn't this group of people in the government who planned this for so long but waited for a gullible president to pull it off attempt to launch a dictatorship after the Oklahoma City bombing?

Why would this group of people in the government who planned this for so long to start a dictatorship but waited for a gullible president to pull it off wait for a gullible president? Wouldn't a strong president who was 'in on it' be a better choice for a dictator?

Why did this group of people in the government who planned this for so long to start a dictatorship but waited for a gullible president allow the same gullible president to run for office again? Why didn't one of the people in the government who planned this for so long to start a dictatorship but waited for a gullible president get nominated as the republican candidate?

Originally posted by PeanutButterJellyTime
What group of people in the government were planning this for years, waiting to get a gulible president into office to pull it off?[quote/]



Waiting for a gullible president - you mean selecting a culpable president at the time chosen
A criminal front family for a hundred years Bush and his relatives and ancestors are serial mass murdering criminals working for those behind the scene



[edit on 17-4-2005 by dh]

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
People also keep comparing the WTC towers to other sky scraper fires. Those other sky scrapers weren't slammed into by 747s....


And as far as it not being hot enough. Well the buildings continued to burn and smolder for days. They weren't exactly cool....

747

get ur facts straight

Originally posted by motionknight

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
People also keep comparing the WTC towers to other sky scraper fires. Those other sky scrapers weren't slammed into by 747s....


And as far as it not being hot enough. Well the buildings continued to burn and smolder for days. They weren't exactly cool....

747

get ur facts straight

Yeah - and why were they so hot
The firefighters in the buildings reported that the fires were almost out - shortly prior to the collapse
People were photographed standing in the wounds of the buildings seeking help shortly
before the collapse - evidence of raging fires?
An extra element was needed to provide the collapse, the continual smouldering and molten steel

[edit on 17-4-2005 by dh]