Why isn't The Raelian Message taken more seriously?

Below was quoted earlier:

"A reasonable explanation may be that near death experiences are simply caused by random, confused neural activity in a dying, distressed brain. In fact, the stereotypical near death experience has been induced in living subjects by appropriate stimulation."


The brain and the spirit are not one in the same. These are two sepparate things. Out of body is a real experience. It does not have to happen near death. The fact that spirits do exist helps a great deal in explaining some otherwise mysterious observations.

Troy

i was gone for the weekend, and the conversation has developed but i still want to clear up the definition of infinity. it seems there is a discrepency as to what it means.

We may have different defintions or perception of what Eternity is, or as Rael calls it Infinity, but basically the same. Anyway, as I see Infinity it is the human connection with the big picture, the universe, the planet, the stars, and how we are just this tiny speck...yet still in harmony with everything in it. We are part of it, part of everything. The cells in your body, to the very atom is all in relation to the Infinity...and with the universe. It is becoming one with everything, this Infinity, that makes it logical....

from merriam webster:

2 entries found for infinite.
To select an entry, click on it.
infinite[1,adjective]infinite[2,noun]

Main Entry: 1in·fi·nite
Pronunciation: 'in-f&-n&t
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English infinit, from Middle French or Latin; Middle French, from Latin infinitus, from in- + finitus finite
1 : extending indefinitely : ENDLESS
2 : immeasurably or inconceivably great or extensive : INEXHAUSTIBLE
3 : subject to no limitation or external determination
4 a : extending beyond, lying beyond, or being greater than any preassigned finite value however large b : extending to infinity c : characterized by an infinite number of elements or terms
- in·fi·nite·ly adverb
- in·fi·nite·ness noun

think of infinity as a line



(remember: this is a 1 dimensional straight line, but we best understand our universe to be atleast 3D and much more exciting)

-both arrows extend forever. never ending. regardless how many times you clone yourself, even genetically enhancing your abilities - you would NEVER reach the end. therefore you could never map the course. eons and eons of travelling in one direction *regardless of speed* could present completely different surroundings. and you could keep going. and going. and going. etc.

i think the best laymans term in capital letters above explains it perfectly. ENDLESS. if raels meaning of infinite is anywhere near the same, he would know that the elohim can not traverse the universe in its entirety, and never can. nor can they break open every atom to find each individual universe therein. if the elohim cannot do this how can they explain it away as if they've captured it?

thats where cloning comes in. the elohim want to cancel out the paradox of Gods creation "infinity" and have us believe that science (cloning) is the answer. ok, it may be a "form" of immortality, but it does not grant omnipotence or omnicience. Should these two qualities reside in any character - it is the master creator; GOD.

let me pose to you a question. say there really is a God, but these brainy aliens come along and convince humanity there wasnt, thus you forget God. how would your spiritual standing lie with God?

You should'nt have so much blind faith in Rael or his 'elohim'. You should be questioning their intentions. i think i understand Raels message all too clearly, but no matter how far advanced, an alien can never pretend to be God.



[edit on 18-4-2005 by lost]

Great , you have already understood. According to your reality that is.
God the word itself never even existed in the original written scripture of the old testament. The word is a mistranslation of the Hebrew "Elohim" which is a pluar word. There for "gods" is a better translation , though not the most accurate. "those who come from the sky" is the correct translation of Elohim.
In Sumerian the "Annanuki " means "those who came down from heaven to earth"
And yes , the link is not lost , and the link with humanity and its creators through religion remains.

The Raelian religion has established that link and consolidated but the planet is still in danger of self destruction. Thats why we must spread love on the planet and act in a way that is positive to the development of this world , while there is still time.


www.raelianmovement.org...

OK on the other point.
First the Elohim have never claimed in their messages to have traversed the entire universe. This is a joke since an infinite universe has no end.

The universe is infinite in time and space.
The universe itself is a living thing that we are a part. Only the form changes but all matter is infinitly old.

The Elohims civilisation is thousands of years ahead of our current primitive state. They continue to progress becuase the universe is infinite there is always something more to discover always a faster way to travel and they continue to develope. And since all their scientific brains work together unlike the scientist on our planet who work against each other in economic competition , the Elohim advance at a faster rate.
Hopefully we create a world of peace and our scientific discovery can speed up for the benifit of all.

alright - i think everybody understands. presuming rael is telling the story true as he experienced it - and these as-of-yet 'unseen' elohim are indeed telling the truth, the biggest questions to be asked are these:

if humanities fixation with 'God' has always been a ruse for our development - why is it now these supposed elohim want to tell us the 'truth' for once?

and

if the elohim are 'humans like us' just more advanced - who is the God described in Genesis 1 verse 1?

..or do these elohim claim to have created the heavens and the earth too?

basically, if these elohim are going to take credit for our presence here on this planet - who is responsible for their initial presence on their home planet? and those before them? etc..

where does credit lie for the all-encompasing infinite universe?

lemme guess: "no one, the universe just is."
-this requires just as much faith as any other religion.

not to mention the hoard of other questions raised in raels story.... and contradictions throughout...

some FAQ that should be on Raels site:

Q: why wont the elohim just present themselves?
A: because humanity isnt ready yet. need to be more peacefull etc..
Q: why isnt humanity more peacefull?
A: namely because of religion. current state of affairs = islam vs. christianity.
Q: what is christianity and islam?
A: two seperate religions designed by the elohim for humanity.

uh....?
bleh - i hope the rest of you recognize the lie when you see it.

I'm not completely familiar with the Raelian religion. I already have mentioned some of my disagreements with what I have heard.

Now I admit that some of it did sound logical. But we've got to look at the religion and what would happen if we applied its teachings to our lives. Will it help us, or will it hurt us. And will it take us closer to truth.

Troy

agreed.

like many movements before it, i fear the raelian movement will confuse a lot of well intentioned people. i watched the videos, and some of the little subliminal messages really tweeked my nerves. for example rael pretending as if a seminar with himself could replace that of one with jesus or 'buddah'. i apologize to avid raelians, but i put him nowhere near par with Jesus. he is pretty blatantly calling himself the 'maytriea from the west.'

*should his alien encounter be true, and his embassy plans completed and **gasp** these 'elohim should actually come -rael could very easily fit into the grand conspiracy we've all read about concerning revelations and the 'anti-christ'.*

not to mention his passing off of sex as a childs play.

it really does look like fun. part of me would really like to attend one of raels nude hippie fests. it sounds awsome actually. to be in nature, with other friendly people. conversations. relationships. games. smiles. happiness. music. dancing. thinking. nice advertisment for a cult/religion.

but mixed in all that fun, people are being told to forget God.

IMHO rael is a pretty acurate description of lies mixed in with truth, creating a little grey for people to get lost in.

imagine what kind of following would immediatley ride the raelian movement if these 'elohim' actually arrived? it would be insane. rael would be revered as a prophet - with his amazing prophecy fufilled. then would come all the DNA manipulation. i see humanity slowly rationalizing cloning away as the cure for every ailment. it gets worse.

It does sound rational and sane in some of the stuff I have seen. The married thing even sounds sane. But I hardly think that just leaving when you are done with the marriage thing is a good idea, because you made no agreement. It sort of seems like you would be leaving without trying to resolve the problems within the marriage. Oh well, I'm not in love anymore, on to the next person. And so, on and on it goes, no relationships really working out.

If we took this sort of "no agreement" viewpoint throughout life, we would possibly pack up and leave our jobs, disown friends, all without trying to resolve the issue that pulled the relationships appart. Yeah, it is miserable in a failing relationship, but relationships can be fixed. Just seems like it could develop into a rather unstable situation, where there are no agreements to hold the civilization together. Civilization could just fall apart. Think of all the agreements that this civiliation is built upon. Stop at a red light, drive on the right side, no stealing.

Troy

Well let me answer these questions again. Since I replied last week but looks like there was a problem with my post.


alright - i think everybody understands. presuming rael is telling the story true as he experienced it - and these as-of-yet 'unseen' elohim are indeed telling the truth, the biggest questions to be asked are these:

if humanities fixation with 'God' has always been a ruse for our development - why is it now these supposed elohim want to tell us the 'truth' for once?

OK Its only in the last couple of generation (message was given 30 years ago) that humanity has been able to understand how life could have been created. We now understand about DNA , genetic engineering , space travel etc. In the past if we seen something comming from sky it had to be devine.


and

if the elohim are 'humans like us' just more advanced - who is the God described in Genesis 1 verse 1?

In the original bible it says Elohim created man, in their image, after their likeness , behold man has become as one of us.

..or do these elohim claim to have created the heavens and the earth too?
No , universe has always existed

basically, if these elohim are going to take credit for our presence here on this planet - who is responsible for their initial presence on their home planet? and those before them? etc..

Elohim were also created. Their creators world has died out , just as one day our sun will implode or burn out and our world will die out. We are part of an eternal chain of creation. Becuase of infinity in time we can never know how life began.

where does credit lie for the all-encompasing infinite universe?
All matter and energy are eternally one. Only the form changes. The universe itself is a living thing that we are a part.

lemme guess: "no one, the universe just is."
-this requires just as much faith as any other religion.

not to mention the hoard of other questions raised in raels story.... and contradictions throughout...

some FAQ that should be on Raels site:

Q: why wont the elohim just present themselves?
A: because humanity isnt ready yet. need to be more peacefull etc..
Correct
Q: why isnt humanity more peacefull?
A: namely because of religion. current state of affairs = islam vs. christianity.
correct
Q: what is christianity and islam?
A: two seperate religions designed by the elohim for humanity.
They are not seperate. They are of the Judeo lineage , both cristianity and Islam. If you read the Koran you would know this.

Now I admit that some of it did sound logical. But we've got to look at the religion and what would happen if we applied its teachings to our lives. Will it help us, or will it hurt us. And will it take us closer to truth

Well Ive been practicing raelism for nearly 14 years and it has had a positive effect on my life.

OK

like many movements before it, i fear the raelian movement will confuse a lot of well intentioned people. i watched the videos, and some of the little subliminal messages really tweeked my nerves. for example rael pretending as if a seminar with himself could replace that of one with jesus or 'buddah'. i apologize to avid raelians, but i put him nowhere near par with Jesus. he is pretty blatantly calling himself the 'maytriea from the west.'
No actually it was some of our Korean team who identified Rael as the Miatreya , many of them are also Buddhist.
*should his alien encounter be true, and his embassy plans completed and **gasp** these 'elohim should actually come -rael could very easily fit into the grand conspiracy we've all read about concerning revelations and the 'anti-christ'.*
Or it could show he is the last prophet , the one predicted by all major religions.
not to mention his passing off of sex as a childs play.
No sex is Adults play
it really does look like fun. part of me would really like to attend one of raels nude hippie fests. it sounds awsome actually. to be in nature, with other friendly people. conversations. relationships. games. smiles. happiness. music. dancing. thinking. nice advertisment for a cult/religion.

but mixed in all that fun, people are being told to forget God.
God as a singluar is a mistranslation from the original Tora "Elohim" meaning "those who come from the sky"

IMHO rael is a pretty acurate description of lies mixed in with truth, creating a little grey for people to get lost in.

imagine what kind of following would immediatley ride the raelian movement if these 'elohim' actually arrived? it would be insane. rael would be revered as a prophet - with his amazing prophecy fufilled. then would come all the DNA manipulation. i see humanity slowly rationalizing cloning away as the cure for every ailment. it gets worse.

What is the probelm with curing every ailment ?

It does sound rational and sane in some of the stuff I have seen. The married thing even sounds sane. But I hardly think that just leaving when you are done with the marriage thing is a good idea, because you made no agreement. It sort of seems like you would be leaving without trying to resolve the problems within the marriage. Oh well, I'm not in love anymore, on to the next person. And so, on and on it goes, no relationships really working out.

Actually it doest work like that at all. Its about love. And being with someone you love. Instead of being with someone you dont love. Its about choice and being happy in life. But hey you choose for yourself.

If we took this sort of "no agreement" viewpoint throughout life, we would possibly pack up and leave our jobs, disown friends, all without trying to resolve the issue that pulled the relationships appart. Yeah, it is miserable in a failing relationship, but relationships can be fixed. Just seems like it could develop into a rather unstable situation, where there are no agreements to hold the civilization together. Civilization could just fall apart. Think of all the agreements that this civiliation is built upon. Stop at a red light, drive on the right side, no stealing.

Who says there is no agreement. Ive been in a Raelian Marriage. The difference is there is no contract of ownership. The agreement is between the 2 poeple concerned . maybe your reading more into it than actually is the case. We just dont belive that you can own a person and therefore any such agrement of ownership is useless.

Ok, that's cool. Being with someone you love is good. The idea I had gotten was you do away with agreements, which would dissolve civilization, which made up of agreements.

I'm not out to attack a valid, well intentioned religion.

Roybass, what is the actual Raelian view on sex? It's easy for truth to be twisted by the internet.

Also, what is the actual Raelian view of the soul?

Troy

roybass, seeing as you're the emerging spokesman for rael on this thread, i really must compliment you. *im trusting rael would back you up.* im not one to step down, but your answers are founded on plausible explainations of the universe. i can not logically attack the unkown - it really comes down to what you believe; FAITH.. i do still hold some qualms with the group - but as far as logic goes, i have to say the explanations are as sound as any faith allows. i still find them improbable, but im no more able to see the grand blueprint than the next person. who knows if we'll ever have the answers.

however, i cant help but be cautious of rael and his 'elohim' for these reasons:

-they would take credit for everything humanity acredits to 'God.'
-they would remove 'God' from the vocabulary.
-they've admittedly lied (guidance, whatever) to humanity multiple times.
-they do not offer an answer to the (original) 'origins of life'
-they do not offer an answer to the paradox - "eternity"
-they play on the paradox of "eternity" to their advantage by making it a core idea/symbol of the faith.
-the religions they supposedly seeded - could have been replaced by far better ideologies if they were really to prepare humanity for their return.
**with mastering of DNA, wouldnt you think they couldve had a bit better brainwashing program?

and lastly,
-they do not even attempt to explain the phenomena humanity has termed the 'spirit'.

...........a wolf in sheeps clothing.

Ok, that's cool. Being with someone you love is good. The idea I had gotten was you do away with agreements, which would dissolve civilization, which made up of agreements.

I'm not out to attack a valid, well intentioned religion.

Roybass, what is the actual Raelian view on sex? It's easy for truth to be twisted by the internet.
Raelians believe that sex is not just for procreation but for pleasure. Between consenting Adults anything is possible. One thing we are against is violence . Except in sport. Sport is humanities outlet for agression.
Also, what is the actual Raelian view of the soul?
The Soul is the DNA , the genetic code which is unique to each individual. It is in harmony with the universe , made of matter and energy , it connects us to the universe, able feel a part of the universe.

Troy

however, i cant help but be cautious of rael and his 'elohim' for these reasons:

-they would take credit for everything humanity acredits to 'God.'
Except where humanity says for example disasters are done by god to punish people , that sort of thing for Raelians is rediculous. Each person is responsible for their own actions.
-they would remove 'God' from the vocabulary.
No , The Elohim are , who primitive people called god. They created us "in their image " "after their likeness" "behold now man has become as one of us"
-they've admittedly lied (guidance, whatever) to humanity multiple times.
Not much more than a hundred years ago people couldnt understand flyt. Less than 50 years ago , people said it was crazy to fly in space. Weve really only just emerged from a very primitive time. Jesus was 2000 years ago , he had to communicate in a way the primitive people of the time could understand.
-they do not offer an answer to the (original) 'origins of life'
Yes , they do. They tell us the universe itself is a living thing we are a part of. Becuase of infinity in time we can never know of a beginning. Where ever we go through the universe we will find life.
-they do not offer an answer to the paradox - "eternity"
This analogy (excuse me) is a little perdantic. Of course the Elohim have been able to live through successive bodies for 25,000 years. But life itself is a part of an eternal chain. Individual beings may eventually die out , even humanities but they still spread through the universe as part of the eternal chain.
-they play on the paradox of "eternity" to their advantage by making it a core idea/symbol of the faith.
Not really. What we teach and learn is that the most important thing , is the moment. The moment we are alive is all that really exists.
-the religions they supposedly seeded - could have been replaced by far better ideologies if they were really to prepare humanity for their return.

Each religion or rather prophet they sent was suited to the time and geographic location of humanity. Now thet we have reached the age of science we no longer need to believe but can understand.
**with mastering of DNA, wouldnt you think they couldve had a bit better brainwashing program?
Actually they teach us how to wash our own brain. To wash it clean of all the propaganda we are bombarded with . How to be in harmony with the universe.

and lastly,
-they do not even attempt to explain the phenomena humanity has termed the 'spirit'.
Sorry but they do. See previous post about the Soul. But in anycase , the word spirit comes from the latin spirare , it means "to breath"

Why? Because the Raelians are just one of many New Age crackpot UFO cults who really lack any originality in their themes. There is little original material there, as the whole idea of gods being aliens, coming to earth, ect, is hardly Rael's own unique concept, but one that has been promoted before him, by different authors or cult leaders. Hell, half the crap the Raelians think is so unique to the, Ive pondered on my own without reading their stuff. Very unimaghinitive bunch they are, copying alot of material from other cults, authors of other books, ect.

Rael's "prophecies" and "visions" basically are no different from those of other crackpot cult leaders, and thus, people treat the Raelians accordingly. Its hard to take anything of theirs seriously, as it holds little basis in reality, and alot of it is non practical, nonsensical, and suspect.

Any group of people claiming enlightenment, who want me to pay up to gain some of that enlightenment are going to be very suspect.

Just because the alien races are real and want to help our race, does not mean that everyone on Earth who is claiming things about them is honest. Some are diabolical.

A cult is a cult is a cult, so recognize this one for what it is. Historically, by human nature, a few particular kinds of people create the cults and many other particular kinds of people fall for them.

None of the alien races visiting Earth have anything to do with any cults and never will.

Roybass, I find it difficult to see that you've been able to go through ATS bolding certain thing, you get what's going on here however you don't respond to our u2u protocol.

I can only see that as an admission of neglegence.

You get a difficult part of the site while ignoring an easy part?

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You've been doing this for months, it's in your siggy.

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Asala