Not One More Penny to Ukraine. How much is the “Big Guy” Getting ?

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: whyamIhere

For one thing, the US and Ukraine have a treaty. Ukraine surrendered their nuclear capabilities with the assurance that the US would protect Ukraine against Russian incursion.

This diplomatic activity manifested in security assurances for Ukraine embedded in what has become known as the Budapest Memorandum. With the entrance of Ukraine into the international order as a non-nuclear state, Russia, the U.S. and the U.K. pledged to “respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.” The memo reaffirmed their obligation to “refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine.” The signatories also reaffirmed their commitment to “seek immediate” UN Security Council action “to provide assistance to Ukraine … if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression.” These assurances upheld obligations contained in the U.N. charter and the 1975 Helsinki Final Act.

Ukraine, in turn, gave up the nuclear weapons within its borders, sending them to Russia for dismantling.

theconversation.com...

Was the US the only signature on that treaty ?

I suspect not.

Why are we the only one paying billions and billions to Ukraine ?

Just saying...

originally posted by: whyamIhere
Why is Ukraine’s Border more important than our own ?

Why are we sending billions to a Country I don’t care about.

Our Border is wide open and the Feds aren’t doing anything.

Yet billions are going to Ukraine with no checks or balances.

Knowing the entire time that Ukraine is even more corrupt than Mexico.

At least the Mexicans which we care about will receive the benefits.

Let’s be honest. The Military Industrial Complex has to have war.

They couldn’t stand the pause in the killing.

Not one more dime to Ukraine. Let’s see an up to date accounting.

How many billions did the big guy get ?

Enough...

I agree completely.
Not one goddamn dime more to them when our F’ing country is suffering under these anti-American, loser Democrats.

a reply to: Mahogani

So you’re okay with supporting and giving subsidies to the Ukrainian people to the detriment of homeless veterans? Waiting to see how you justify this. If we kept our “ old weapons “, we don’t have to invest in new ones. Maybe take care of the people who fought for our country with what we save.

Now there’s a concept, subsidize the people who gave to secure our country. Some paid a very heavy price. I can tell that you didn’t, or you wouldn’t feel the way you do. If you did, you would turn your passions to defend the rights of people in America that deserve it much more than your Ukrainian buddies

a reply to: Mahogani

One more question, how many countries in the world tax their citizens so they can send money to the US?

originally posted by: RazorV66

originally posted by: whyamIhere
Why is Ukraine’s Border more important than our own ?

Why are we sending billions to a Country I don’t care about.

Our Border is wide open and the Feds aren’t doing anything.

Yet billions are going to Ukraine with no checks or balances.

Knowing the entire time that Ukraine is even more corrupt than Mexico.

At least the Mexicans which we care about will receive the benefits.

Let’s be honest. The Military Industrial Complex has to have war.

They couldn’t stand the pause in the killing.

Not one more dime to Ukraine. Let’s see an up to date accounting.

How many billions did the big guy get ?

Enough...

I agree completely.
Not one goddamn dime more to them when our F’ing country is suffering under these anti-American, loser Democrats.

We’ve suffered under every admin in the last few decades.

The two candidates we have to pick from both love to print trillions of dollars and cause inflation. Trump incurred almost as much debt as Obama in half the time.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker

originally posted by: RazorV66

originally posted by: whyamIhere
Why is Ukraine’s Border more important than our own ?

Why are we sending billions to a Country I don’t care about.

Our Border is wide open and the Feds aren’t doing anything.

Yet billions are going to Ukraine with no checks or balances.

Knowing the entire time that Ukraine is even more corrupt than Mexico.

At least the Mexicans which we care about will receive the benefits.

Let’s be honest. The Military Industrial Complex has to have war.

They couldn’t stand the pause in the killing.

Not one more dime to Ukraine. Let’s see an up to date accounting.

How many billions did the big guy get ?

Enough...

I agree completely.
Not one goddamn dime more to them when our F’ing country is suffering under these anti-American, loser Democrats.

We’ve suffered under every admin in the last few decades.

Ummm...DUDE...have an opinion for once...this fence sitting is harmful to your health...you've been perched on that fence post so damned long...you've got splinters on your tongue...

How about actually addressing the premise of the thread...

What's your actual stance on..."Not one penny more to Ukraine"...and..."How about we fix our own border and take care of our homeless situation...especially all those homeless Vets"...

Those actually seem like reasonable propositions...

Fix all of our own problems...then extend a hand to those in need...NOT...dump billions and billions of tax dollars down a corrupt hole so that the MIC can get they some...

Don't you think...?





YouSir

originally posted by: whyamIhere

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: whyamIhere

For one thing, the US and Ukraine have a treaty. Ukraine surrendered their nuclear capabilities with the assurance that the US would protect Ukraine against Russian incursion.

This diplomatic activity manifested in security assurances for Ukraine embedded in what has become known as the Budapest Memorandum. With the entrance of Ukraine into the international order as a non-nuclear state, Russia, the U.S. and the U.K. pledged to “respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.” The memo reaffirmed their obligation to “refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine.” The signatories also reaffirmed their commitment to “seek immediate” UN Security Council action “to provide assistance to Ukraine … if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression.” These assurances upheld obligations contained in the U.N. charter and the 1975 Helsinki Final Act.

Ukraine, in turn, gave up the nuclear weapons within its borders, sending them to Russia for dismantling.

theconversation.com...

Was the US the only signature on that treaty ?

I suspect not.

Why are we the only one paying billions and billions to Ukraine ?

Just saying...

It's right there in my citation:

With the entrance of Ukraine into the international order as a non-nuclear state, Russia, the U.S. and the U.K. pledged to “respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.”

The Uk is contributing, and obviously, Russia is doing their part!

a reply to: YouSir

Ummm...DUDE...have an opinion for once...this fence sitting is harmful to your health...you've been perched on that fence post so damned long...you've got splinters on your tongue...

There are only two options because so many allow it to continue. What’s the old adage, trying the same thing over and over expecting different results is insanity. Each party has taken turns running the country into the ground.

As for Ukraine, I don’t mind giving some assistance, albeit it’s been too bloated and wasted. But giving the eastern a bloody nose and setting them back a bit isn’t a waste of money. This sets China and Iran back too.

I’ll get roasted and I don’t care. Look at the countries people act like we shouldn’t be against, China, Russia and Iran. All authoritarian governments doing whatever they can to solidify an axis of authoritarianism. F*** em.

Edit: BTW, I don’t see how picking issue by issue is fence sitting. But if it is, I’ll take it over having my world view handed to me by people who constantly screw me.

originally posted by: Mahogani
a reply to: whyamIhere

Because we live on a planet and we share it with others. And some others are not good neighbors.

Imagine the world was our street, where we live. These bad neighbors are attacking other houses, burning them down, kidnapping people from inside etc.

We should invest in policing this, so it doesn't get to our own house.

At this point, aid to Ukraine is like investing in police, so they can get # in order before it gets to us.

This is asinine. Might as well fund Tibet.

We have bad neighbors flooding into the US from across the globe.

We don’t need to give money to a country that our President’s son has been embroiled in a pay-to-play scheme.

This is a terrible analogy.

originally posted by: whyamIhere

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: whyamIhere

For one thing, the US and Ukraine have a treaty. Ukraine surrendered their nuclear capabilities with the assurance that the US would protect Ukraine against Russian incursion.

This diplomatic activity manifested in security assurances for Ukraine embedded in what has become known as the Budapest Memorandum. With the entrance of Ukraine into the international order as a non-nuclear state, Russia, the U.S. and the U.K. pledged to “respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.” The memo reaffirmed their obligation to “refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine.” The signatories also reaffirmed their commitment to “seek immediate” UN Security Council action “to provide assistance to Ukraine … if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression.” These assurances upheld obligations contained in the U.N. charter and the 1975 Helsinki Final Act.

Ukraine, in turn, gave up the nuclear weapons within its borders, sending them to Russia for dismantling.

theconversation.com...

Was the US the only signature on that treaty ?

I suspect not.

Why are we the only one paying billions and billions to Ukraine ?

Just saying...

1) The nation state signatories to the Budapest Memorandum were the US, UK, Ukraine, and Russia. The agreement was that all signatories would respect the boundaries as they existed in 1991 in return for Ukraine giving up and destroying its nuclear weapons and agreeing to the terms of the nuclear non-proliferation treaty. Ukraine, the UK, and the US kept their parts of the bargain, and still are, but Russia obviously did not.

treaties.un.org...

2) We're not the only ones providing economic and military support to Ukraine.

Ukraine has received about 233 B$ in aid since the beginning of the Russian invasion. Of that, the US has provided about 73 B$, European Union institutions have provided about 90B$, and the rest has been supplied by individual nations, some of which are part of the EU and some of which are not. The UK, for example is no longer part of the EU but has contributed about 5.8 B$. The US is the single biggest supplier of military equipment, mainly because we have big parking lots out in the desert full of surplused tanks, humvees, armored personnel carriers, missile interceptors, etc. that we have been saving for a rainy day and that we have no intention of using. The F-16s, by the way, that Ukraine is going to get real soon are NOT coming from the US inventory.

www.visualcapitalist.com...

But don't let facts get in the way of a nice, warm rant.

a reply to: Boomer1947

But don't let facts get in the way of a nice, warm rant.

Not a fan of competition?

We're giving more than the next 6 or 7 countries....combined.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: YouSir



As for Ukraine, I don’t mind giving some assistance, albeit it’s been too bloated and wasted. But giving the eastern a bloody nose and setting them back a bit isn’t a waste of money. This sets China and Iran back too.

Ummm...Le sigh...apparently you haven't been paying attention...Russia is doing just fine...the sanctions are hurting Europe and the US/Canada far more than they are Russia...The Russian people are actually doing better economically and financially now...than they were before the west forced Russia to defend it's interests and it's people...
Brics just added six new nations...with a growing list of nations waiting to join...

I’ll get roasted and I don’t care. Look at the countries people act like we shouldn’t be against, China, Russia and Iran. All authoritarian governments doing whatever they can to solidify an axis of authoritarianism. F*** em.

Damn right you'll get roasted...Russia and China have been extending the hand of friendship to the west for decades...
The west rebuffed both nations overtures in favor of confrontation...

The world has been watching...and now the vast majority of the world is siding with Russia...and China...and are consolidating their trade among themselves in their own currencies...while dropping the petro dollar in favor of a sanction proof global economy where their own interests are respected on a peer to peer basis...

Edit: BTW, I don’t see how picking issue by issue is fence sitting. But if it is, I’ll take it over having my world view handed to me by people who constantly screw me.

Bull excrement...in spades...Your basing your whole world view on this subject on a purely one sided propaganda piece written by the Three letters...and dished out by their talking heads...

You've totally swallowed their narrative...willingly...

So stop pretending that you've risen above the uniparty...when your marching in lockstep with same...

Have a little self respect...and some honesty...



YouSir

originally posted by: Mahogani

originally posted by: Topcraft

originally posted by: Mahogani
a reply to: whyamIhere

Once again, the "money" we give them is Patriot missile batteries worth many millions, Abrams tanks worth millions, ammo and shells from our own stockpiles decades old. We probably supply them with numerous other military machinery and vehicles. Maybe helicopters. We're transferring a fleet of old F-16s to them, and training them to use them. Those are really pricey.

All of that adds up to BILLIONS of dollars in aid we send to Ukraine. We don't give them cash, what are they going to do with that? They need weapons that can be used immediately. The same day they arrive, if possible.

On our side though -- hey, we have a huge military-industrial complex and we don't allow ANYONE to build weapons for us. We make our own. Always.

Which means, everything we give, everything, every single piece of equipment or ammo, now has to be built again and replaced back at home. Using our own workforce and factories.

They get weapons, US industry gets the cash.

So who do you think paid for these “old weapons” ? Weapons that were meant for our own defense. Who paid for these?

We do. That is why it's good for our economy. That is the gist of all my posts in this thread.

The value we apply to what we give to Ukraine is the value of what it costs to replace it today. We don't know what the value of 'old stuff' is, so it is calculated on today's prices of what it would cost to replace.

So, the $60-70 billion in weapons we "gave" them, is what we expect it will cost us to rebuild it. The actual value of what we gave is lower, because it's older stuff.

eta: Here is a thread I made that goes into how much each US state has so far benefited from the Ukraine aid.

That’s just nonsense, do you realize we are depleting our own ammunition’s and arsenal stockpiles to dangerous levels with what we’ve sent to Ukraine? How is that a benefit to us?

As the first full winter of Russia’s war with Ukraine sets in, the US is running low on some high-end weapons systems and ammunition available to transfer to Kyiv, three US officials with direct knowledge tell CNN. The strain on weapons stockpiles – and the ability of the US industrial base to keep up with demand – is one of the key challenges facing the Biden administration as the US continues to send billions of dollars of weapons to Ukraine to support its fight against Russia. One of the officials said the stockpiles of certain systems are “dwindling” after nearly nine months of sending supplies to Kyiv during the high-intensity war, as there’s “finite amount” of excess stocks which the US has available to send. Among the weapons systems where there’s particular concern about US stockpiles meeting Ukrainian demands are 155mm artillery ammunition and Stinger anti-aircraft shoulder-fired missiles, the sources said. Some sources also raised concerns about US production of additional weapons systems, including HARMs anti-radiation missiles, GMLRS surface-to-surface missiles and the portable Javelin anti-tank missiles – although the US has moved to ramp up production for those and other systems.

www.cnn.com...

And… let’s address the elephant in the room. There’s not a single person that has any resemblance of intelligence who thinks Ukraine can win a war against Russia, nobody and if they say that Ukraine can win this war they’re either totally delusional or lying. It just ain’t going to happen. Russia can wipe Ukraine off the map in a blink of a eye if they wanted to. Everyone knows this and I would hope you have the intelligence to see this, if not well……….

So, I have to ask, why do you think we should continue to fund a war that EVERYONE from top brass down knows they can’t win?

a reply to: YouSir

I’m sure the world is going to drop the USD for a country with an economy the size of Texas and another who’s only asset their populace is allowed to trade is real estate which is about to pop so hard it makes 08’ look like a correction.

Not to mention China’s population crisis with the biggest pension generation ever while the one child policy rears its head.

Poor Russia China and Iran, they just wanted to be friends and the west shot them down 😔

And that’s pretty neat you can declare my world view hinges on an opinion in a single thread

This explains it.


In the last 2 years Joe's net worth has increased by quite a few millions, and while his net worth has increased, he says he has no business ventures anywhere, he says only Trump does LOL.

The most blatant corruption on display and he just flips the bird at the world.