Universe-25 is an experiment that destroys human utopia

Hello ATS!

Humans are spreading incredibly quickly on Earth. Just 200 years ago, the number of people on the planet was only 1 billion. And this year this value exceeded the 8 billion mark. Increasingly, there are cries that the resources on Earth are not endless and, ultimately, they will simply run out. People will begin to starve, suffer from thirst, and become hostage to other problems.

However, some scientists are convinced that the main danger for humanity is not a shortage of resources, but their severe excess. If it is possible to establish “heavenly” conditions on the planet, thanks to which all people will be well-fed and happy, then the world around us will soon turn into a real hell. This is exactly what happened during the experiment, which was given the name “Universe-25”. Today I want to tell you, dear members of the ATS, about this experiment.



John B. Calhoun, a famous American psychologist, back in the 1970s tried to find an answer to the question of what would happen to society if it found itself in a utopia, that is, it did not really need anything. To find out what to prepare for in this case, he conducted a series of experiments that became part of one large-scale study called Universe-25. I would like to note right away that all experiments were carried out exclusively on mice.



The scientist took eight mice of reproductive age and placed them inside the so-called “utopia”. The rodents had at their disposal an environment that was maximally conducive to their quiet life and reproduction. They always had food and water, nesting materials, and the temperature was kept at 20 degrees Celsius, which is the most comfortable value for mice. There were no predators in the laboratory, so the rodents were in no danger. Moreover, John B. Calhoun tried to completely eliminate the possibility of various pathogenic microbes entering this “utopia.”

The rodents did not need to constantly search for food or water, so they began to mate much more often. The result of this was that every 55 days the population of experimental subjects doubled in size. As soon as the number of the colony reached 620 individuals, its further growth slowed down significantly. The mice began giving birth to offspring after a period of 145 days. At the same time, the scientist noticed that rodents began to separate into certain groups. And some individuals were never able to take root in any of them, which is why they became real outcasts.

Under natural conditions, not all young rodents can survive to maturity. Most often, only old animals are replaced. Males who become redundant in their groups simply leave. However, in “utopia” the old males simply had nowhere to go. That is why they began to move away from their relatives. First physically, and then psychologically. Those who never found a new place for themselves practically stopped showing any activity and went to the bottom of the “utopia” cube. Other, younger males constantly attacked them, but the “old men” did not fight back.

Particular changes in behavior were evident in alpha males. They became even more aggressive and began to rape not only females, but also males. Almost all fights with other males ended with the alpha males simply devouring the losing relatives. After some time, aggression began to appear in females. Mothers attacked the mice, which destroyed their nests. Moreover, many of them began to forget about their offspring and often killed their cubs on their own. In certain areas of the “utopia” the mortality rate exceeded 90%.


Aggression was only the first stage of change in mouse society in such conditions. After some time, there were many adult individuals left in the population who managed to survive the attacks of the males and their mothers. Their behavior differed in almost every way from the behavior of mice we are used to. The fact is that these test subjects did not even understand how representatives of their species should behave. Many males and females showed absolutely no interest in mating.



The peak number of mice in this “utopia” was 2,200 individuals, although the created “universe” itself was designed for exactly 3,000 mice. Once the peak was reached, the number of animals began to gradually decline. Some mice occupied the very top floors, others created groups and hunted their brothers together, and still others tried to hide. Ultimately, the colony died out completely. There was still enough food, water and other resources to satisfy the needs of all possible rodents.

Continued below...

Calhoun came to the conclusion that the behavior of mice depends on many factors: maternal care, defense of their territory, social organization, etc. If the behavior appropriate for a given species is not developed in the offspring, then there is a high probability of its complete extinction.

John B. Calhoun believes that something similar could happen in modern human society. If absolutely all human needs are satisfied at the moment, then there will be a complete destruction of the social organization. And this will be replaced by violence and cruelty, which will lead to the complete extinction of the species.

In fact, in my opinion, this is exactly what is happening now in Western countries. Therefore, supporters of the “current agenda” are now trying in every possible way to silence and discredit the results of the experiment.

Links for thought:

Wikipedia
Smithsonian Magazine
The Scientist

Thank you.

Very well written synopsis of the experiment. I remember the experiment and reading about it from different sources. If you stand back many of the things that happened to the Mice are already happening to humanity in certain regions IMO.

We were taught a similar concept in biology using various bacteria cultures in petri dishes.

In a dish with differing strains of bacteria there was competition for resources until the dominant strain won or a balance was reached between the various cultures staying in their respective territories and maintaining a level of growth that wasn't constantly expanding and competing for resources.

With a single strain that persisted in growing exponentially a phenomena called Critical Mass was reached and one of two things would happen in such a scenario....either the culture would die off entirely because there were no more resources to consume or it would resort to a pattern of weaker parts of the culture being consumed by the stronger parts of the culture with periods of regrowth to replenish the food supply of the dominant and stronger parts of the culture and just continue the pattern indefinitely.

Cannibal culture.

Experiment 25 is interesting because it used higher life forms and rats and mice are frequently used in such experiments because the possess similar genetic parallels with humans.

We are already seeing a generation obsessed with appearances and lesuire and not reproducing but this isn't an across the board phenomena.

It's a localized section of the population. There are still people having kids and doing just fine.

While it is true many members of European and Caucasian genetic lines are having less children there are still plenty of families having kids.

I know it's hard to handle but it's just becoming too dense and financially impossible to raise a family for most kids and there are countless members of the younger generations lamenting how they would love to have kids but they can't afford the responsibility because of their socioeconomic positions and situations.

A lot of people don't want to bring an innocent soul into a world filled with so much suffering and pain.

Some women can't have kids and others terminate on sight because they don't want another mouth to feed or don't want to go through the ordeal of pregnancy and childbirth.

It balances out but some people insist on breeding humans like cattle and don't care about quality of life for the child it's just growth for the sake of growth and its destroying the landscape as we pave over everything to accommodate the population increase.

I've seen so much of America go from forests and farmland turn into nothing more than storefronts and suburbs and it is depressing and overwhelming to me.

Personally I'm not fond of trend of growth and immigration just because of someone's obsession with taxpayers and worker drones and expanding the colony at all cost.

But that's just me and I ain't running this show so whatever it's a moot point.

Sorry for rambling but I've said my peace and I'm shutting up now.

I love your threads, I always learn something new. Thank you.
I'm off to ponder now as I'd never heard of this experiment. Very interesting.
Rainbows
Jane

Humans obviously have very different psychology than mice, and we also have laws to regulate our behavior. However, there is obviously some truth to the idea that over-abundance could be extremely dangerous. Not so much for us, but for all other life on the planet. Many poorer areas of the world would start reproducing very quickly like the mice, and our massive use of resources would come with a lot of waste products, there's no way to avoid that.

I think the "elite" are most worried about that scenario more than any other, and that's why they try to keep us in a constant state of economic austerity. I think it's why they don't want us having advanced technology such as a way to produce abundant clean energy. It doesn't really matter if the energy is clean because in their mind the bigger threat is humanity its self, and I simply can't accept that line of reasoning.

There has to be a way for us to progress forward as a species in a sustainable way. We just need to have a little hope in humanity instead of hating ourselves just for existing. Having said that, we will never have unlimited abundance, some resources will always be scarce, even if we could create any sort of material out of thin air, some important things such a prime beach-side property would still remain scarce and valuable.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Genesis 3.19

By the sweat of your face
you shall eat bread,
till you return to the ground,
for out of it you were taken;
ofor you are dust,
and pto dust you shall return.



This is the most important meaning and the most important medicine.

a reply to: RussianTroll

Seen the experiment before.

But just like the mice Humans don't want a utopia down to the fact that we are an imperfect animal.

We would hardly wish to reside within a perfect society.

Down the Utopia road lies either stagnation or anarchy none of which are desirable to our continued existence as a species.

Us semi-intelligent monkeys require obstacles and adversity to negotiate, overcome, and defeat, else life becomes meaningless and we become complicit and weak or worse violent and aggressive.

Humans are already on the march to extinction.

Is it really a bad thing? 99% of all species who ever lived on the planet are now extinct. It is the way of the planet and should make progressive liberal leftist environmentalists have a thrill run up and down their legs.

After all the planet will be able to return it it's original natural state. Hot and Humid, as it was in the origins of the planet when dinosaurs ruled. Don't blame volcanoes for the heat, volcanic dust cools the earth and that is a scientific fact. Larger oceans and less land, a verdant antarctic was the original state after the earth cooled and settled down, before humans evolved to destroy everything (use too much water resources), as current science has proven and tells us daily.

Human extinction is inevitable: www.scientificamerican.com...

Is it too late to stop: www.resilience.org...

1 in 6 chance of human extinction: www.resilience.org...

Birth rates plummeting toward extinction: www.bbc.com...

Pew research, people don't want kids: www.bbc.com... ... news.umich.edu...



For fun I rant a chat GPT on human extinction based on current birth rate trends globally. Even India is below replacement rate now. The Chinese despite raising the number of children a couple can have to 3, is still well below replacement rate. Only a handful of countries in Africa are above replacement rate but even they are rapidly declining. I gave chat bot the parameters of a current decline continuing on it's current trajectory with no mitigating factors. Chat GPT fought me every step of the way and I had to practically force it to give me and answer. The answer was: within 5 generations humans could reach extinction level from which there can be no return.

When governments want to take control of children as is happening in the US, definitely happening in China and spreading around the world. People see no benefit in having them. Biden said when the government has your kids (in public school) they belong to them, not the parents. In CA and other states the government run schools have written policies to lie to and deceive parents about what they are doing to the children IF they suspect the parents may/might/maybe won't approve. As Hillary said, it takes a village, in other words kids belong to society, not parents. Children in societies like China are a net negative - in China they can take children from their parents who exhibit promise in academics or sports and only allow parents to see them irregularly. The bond is severed and there is no emotional benefit to having children for the parents.

Even our current US society breaks the parent/child bond early with "most of the day" daycare necessary for the parents to be able to feed/clothe/shelter themselves and their children. Right now for the majority of the time parents get kids up, take them to daycare, when they get home feed the kids and put them to bed. This continues throughout all of childhood, the most critical bonding periods. Without this bonding, social bonding is lost, and may be the cause of the massive increase in autism which is a form of social disconnection. The emotional bond is the ONLY surviving reason in the US to have children, as children no longer care for their parents in old age and often disconnect and abandon elderly parents because they joined the "hate and abandon your toxic parents" popular movement.

Children are too expensive and young adults can not afford to have them. Women are forced to work 2 full time jobs, one for money to live and one as care taker of children. Men are stepping up but the onus falls on exhausted and emotionally drained people with a uterus (as liberals say the word mother is a transphobic insulting word). Motherhood is devalued even in current language trends. Daycare removes parents from the natural bonding that normally takes place with close constant contact. I'm not putting these things down, just stating reality and the current real situation.

The emotional benefit of having children is slowly disappearing from society. The financial drain and strain of having children is increasing. The "solution" of free daycare further dilutes the emotional bond that is the only reason these days to have children.

Children in western societies are encouraged to find fault with their parents and to blame their parents for all their life ills. There are entire industries based on this. Making having children a net negative for many.

Humans are bound to become extinct. www.nationalgeographic.com...
Humans are animals like all other animals. Bound for extinction.

Since progressive liberals think humans are a blight on the planet and very destructive, full of ists and isms and irretrievably awful. Isn't human extinction a good thing for the environment and surviving species?

Isn't restoration of the planet to its natural original state without humans really a good thing. Should we really fight it, can we fight it, it is worth fighting?

BTW: As an elderly person I am fortunate to have a great bond with my adult kids. But I worked part time during their childhood and spent most of my time with them. So my kids are the exception and love me and don't hate me, and haven't abandoned me as many adult children do these days. My oldest with a teen has recently stopped seeing me as a not so great parent as she has had to discipline her kids in the same ways I disciplined her. (taking away privileges, time out, etc.)

Thank you making this thread RT.

It is a disturbing and complex experiment with interesting philosophical and biological implications among others.

If I’m looking for the correlation and/or silver lining as humans tend to do for ourselves, at least we don’t have a lack of territorial war and we will never have enough resources to be complacent as a species.

Fascinating to think when we have it all, it all comes down.

Universe 25 colony collapse is happening in China now. I wish it were not. I am no fan of the CCP or their policies but I can't help but feel sorry for the average Chinese person. I don't blame them for not having children - I wouldn't bring a child into that world either.

originally posted by: Vforvendeta
Universe 25 colony collapse is happening in China now. I wish it were not. I am no fan of the CCP or their policies but I can't help but feel sorry for the average Chinese person. I don't blame them for not having children - I wouldn't bring a child into that world either.

China now is the embodiment of communism and socialism, which rules in the United States.

originally posted by: RussianTroll

originally posted by: Vforvendeta
Universe 25 colony collapse is happening in China now. I wish it were not. I am no fan of the CCP or their policies but I can't help but feel sorry for the average Chinese person. I don't blame them for not having children - I wouldn't bring a child into that world either.

China now is the embodiment of communism and socialism, which rules in the United States.

Well, to be honest, communism rules China and Russia, your country as you claim. Putin has grown up in communism until he slid into dictatorship.

Those are the countries communism actually comes from and still reigns supreme, more or less.

Are you a communist? Do you support your country's party and leadership?

a reply to: Mahogani

The Soviet Union collaped in the 90s. The USA is more communist than Russia.

a reply to: Vforvendeta

Yes it did. And Russia is collapsing too.

A snake sheds, but it doesn't change its character.

Sure, Russia went full dictatorship, but Putin still runs everything the way the commies did. Everything is under his thumb, you do as the state tells you, if you don't do as you're told, guess what -- he just nationalizes it and takes it back, even from the oligarchs. Everything belongs to the state if the state says so. That's communism.

At any given moment, anyone can lose everything they have and have it taken by the state. Or worse, be thrown off a building. That's communism.

In the US, in order for the government to do the same thing Russia does under communism, or whatever they call their system now, we'd have to take property through what is called Eminent Domain.

The only examples of this happening on our soil is the land being taken on the southern border to build a wall. Companies don't get taken and get nationalized. Google or Meta should not fear a takeover in our country, that's not what we do. Ever.

And even then, the people whose land is to be taken can file lawsuits and fight it in court, as some are doing right now.

In Russia, you can not fight the state in court. You can not file a lawsuit to fight what is yours. Even trying to go against Putin may land you breaking rock in a penal colony, next to Navalny.

a reply to: Mahogani

Make no mistake, the dictatorship of communism is now in the USA and Europe. Russia is a healthy capitalist state.

originally posted by: RussianTroll
a reply to: Mahogani

Make no mistake, the dictatorship of communism is now in the USA and Europe. Russia is a healthy capitalist state.

And I hear you loud and clear, but you are also just saying words with no meaning.

You just posted another OP today how Russia completely made all gay people illegal and make protesting for gay rights illegal. The same year he took property and money back from numerous oligarchs because they spoke out against him. Then he used all he took to fund his war, or a special military operation that's been going on for two years now. He took out Prigozhin and nationalized his mercenary force and his other businesses. He's taking things left and right, because he can.

Only in Russia can that be called a healthy capitalism while fingers are pointed at other nations. I hear you, I just don't believe you... because I have my own eyes.

You're still living in communism, comrade. Can't you tell?

originally posted by: RussianTroll
Hello ATS! some individuals were never able to take root in any of them, which is why they became real outcasts.

Hi RT
The above is very interesting. Is there any explanation for this and are there any figures for prevalence? Did the scientists measure outcomes for this group and if so, how did that compare with outcomes for the group as a whole?

Also, you mentioned how pathogens were reduced; were there any other medical interventions to improve or maintain optimum health?

a reply to: Mahogani

At any given moment, anyone can lose everything they have and have it taken by the state. Or worse, be thrown off a building. That's communism.

Through your own description you don't recognize the United States?