An unexplained mysterious artifact

Hello ATS!

Recently I came across an image of an object. It amazed me because something like this couldn’t happen. Christian cross with the inscription in Arabic “In the name of Allah”. Here it is:



The photo is real, the item is in storage in the British Museum. The website of the international art store "Apollo" also describes the exhibition, where there is a photo of the item and a description of it.

" In the last room there is a copper cross brooch dating from 700–900, found in Ballycottin, Ireland, with the Arabic inscription 'God Wills It' engraved at its glass centre. Evidently we are supposed to see this as an emblem of what mutually cooperative Anglo-Islamic relations were like – and could be now. Sadly the brooch can't bear this weight. It is displayed with the pin pointing down, rather than to the side, so as to make the Islamic invocation the right way up But most likely the wearer thought it was a pretty foreign pattern and had no clue about its real meaning – a bit like having a misspelled Arabic tattoo on your ankle.

There is so much that is stimulating in this exhibition that it might seem churlish to complain about what isn’t there. But the effect of eliminating the Islamic figurative tradition makes the religion’s arrival seem more like the clean break Gibbon claimed it was. This was a chance to educate the public – Muslims and non-Muslims – about a largely forgotten past of devotional paintings of the Prophet. If only the curators had not left us to imagine it."

link

Technique:

"inlay, gilding, wood carving, casting"

Cross-shaped brooches are often found in women's burials of the Merovingian era. However, this fibula clearly stands out from the standard ones, since it belongs to the Carolingian, and the inscription in Arabic “In the name of Allah” dates back to the era of Abassid rule.

What do you think?

Thank you.

The cross is an ancient symbol, far predating Christianity. They adopted it as a symbol. I guess using a fish drawing as a symbol did not go well with lots of people who disliked fish.

The cross in Christianity formed from the Christian ship masts which were shaped like a cross. According to what I read, at the time of Jesus, they crusified people on a pole, nailing their hands to the upright pole and not a bar. They had a short bar for the person to stand on back then sometimes though but there is no evidence that that was the case when Jesus was crucified. Some had their feet nailed to the upright pole, and others had their feet just sit on that bar and they would knock their feet off of it if they wanted the person to die quicker.

We do not really know what the pole really looks like for sure. History changes when it is repeated and Christianity needed a symbol for the religion.

This intrigues me because I took an art history course a while ago and the Arabic art history draws upon geometrics, nature shapes etc. but from just a quick search Arabic ancient art did not have that cross shape or anything coming near to that shape between 700 - 900 AD. That cross shape was prevalent in Ethiopia during that time and so I wonder if via trading the two merged into that lovely brooch?

I could also use my imagination and think that from an intermarriage of race and faith via migration or slavery that such a brooch was created from such unions or circumstances.

www.amazon.com...

Maybe... belonged to a templar knight that converted to Islam like Robert of St. Albans? Not sure if they could have gotten away with that kind of religious fusion symbolism. Perhaps there was some temporary tolerance in hope of making conversion look more attractive to others?

a reply to: RussianTroll

My first thoughts were this looks more like a Celtic cross than a Christian one, when I read it was discovered in Ireland that made sense. However the Arabic inscription is very curious.

There was a sect of Irish druids that converted to Christianity and then traveled east and back again to Ireland, perhaps by having the inscription carved on their Celtic cross they avoided being seen as heretics by muslims while at the same time remaining true to their original faith as they did when converting to Christianity.

They referred to themselves as the true Christians, so no doubt had at least some issues with Roman Catholicism.

a reply to: RussianTroll

Did you notice the forum's icon, it fits perfectly with your thread's subject matter. ha ha

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: RussianTroll

Did you notice the forum's icon, it fits perfectly with your thread's subject matter. ha ha

Yes, it's funny)))

a reply to: RussianTroll

before Islam started there were Arab Christians, Pual speaks of them in his letters.
Allah is the arabic word for God, it makes sense that Arab Christians would Use their word for God on the crosses they made for themselves.

a reply to: BernnieJGato

The inscription was made during the reign of the Abbasid dynasty. It coincides with the general dating of the item. The Abbasids ruled during the Great Caliphate. Islam was in its heyday then.

a reply to: RussianTroll

that doesn't mean there weren't still Arab Christians then, just as there are Arab Christians today.

a wiki cuase it's fast,

In the late 7th and 8th centuries, Muslims encountered Levantine Christians. The cognate Syriac word sahedo may have influenced the Arabic shahid ('martyr-witness').[19] During the Abbasid dynasty, translations of the gospels from Syriac into Arabic were made, particularly by historian Bar-Hebraeus, at the request of the Arab governor. According to Professor Dominique Urvoy of the University of Toulouse-Jean Jaurès the Arabic script may have been created by Christian missionaries from the Christianized Arab city of Hira in ancient Iraq.[20][21] Richard Bell notes that the word “surah” is likely a derivation from the Syriac word surta, “used in the sense of Scripture.”
Language

and another.

Arab Christians (Arabic: ﺍﻟْﻤَﺴِﻴﺤِﻴُّﻮﻥ ﺍﻟْﻌَﺮَﺏ, romanized: el-Mesîhîyyûn el-Arab) are ethnic Arabs, Arab nationals, or Arabic-speakers who adhere to Christianity. The number of Arab Christians who live in the Middle East was estimated to be between 10 and 15 million.[1] Arab Christian communities can be found throughout the Arab world, but are concentrated in the Eastern Mediterranean region of the Levant and Egypt, with smaller communities present throughout the Arabian Peninsula and North Africa.

so again it makes sense that they would make something that they would wear usng their word.

a reply to: BernnieJGato

Arab Christians in Ireland at the end of the 1st millennium? Doubtful.

a reply to: RussianTroll

The Vikings got about and to all those areas.

They may have had something to do with it i suppose.

You may find this article of interest.

edition.cnn.com...

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: RussianTroll

The Vikings got about and to all those areas.

They may have had something to do with it i suppose.

You may find this article of interest.

edition.cnn.com...

Of course, it was those conquering looting Vikings.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: RussianTroll

The Vikings got about and to all those areas.

They may have had something to do with it i suppose.

You may find this article of interest.

edition.cnn.com...

Thanks, I'll study the article.

a reply to: quintessentone

They also traded extensively when looting and pillaging were not preferable.

Also the Viking Age(793–1066) would seen to fit the time period regarding the Abbasid caliphate(750–1258) or thereabouts.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: quintessentone

They also traded extensively when looting and pillaging were not preferable.

Also the Viking Age(793–1066) would seen to fit the time period regarding the Abbasid caliphate(750–1258) or thereabouts.

Their brooch art is somewhat similar in design but not in the cross design, so onwards I search.

a reply to: quintessentone



Was just a thought.

a reply to: RussianTroll

first off your link gives no idea of when it's thought to have been brought to Ireland or by who, second during the first crusade there is evidence there were Irish troops fought during first crusade, third it is also just as unlikely that muslims were in Ireland at the end of the first millennium.

All the excited souls having taken that pledge, around 100,000 men were chosen, in the presence of the Lord, for military service; that is, from Aquitaine and also from Normandy, England, Scotland and Ireland, Brittany, Galicia, Gascony, Burgundy, Flanders, Lotharingia and other Christian nations whose names occur very seldom now.
Ireland and the First Crusade

but your link does say that the wearer might have that thought it was pretty, and wore it the wrong way. so who is to say that it wasn't. doesn't it make more sense that a Arabic speaking person be them Christian or muslim wear it right side up, and a english speaking person would wear it right side sideways or down.

from your link

But most likely the wearer thought it was a pretty foreign pattern and had no clue about its real meaning – a bit like having a misspelled Arabic tattoo on your ankle.

it is a well known fact that relics from the crusades were looted and brought back during the crusades.
it is also known that many relices are passed down in churches.

it makes much more sense that it was Arab Christians who made it, seeing how there were Christian Arabs before islam ever came to being.

but i will say this it is also known that Christian Icons and symbology were used and influenced early islamic practices and faith.

again a wiki

Scholars and intellectuals agree Eastern Christians have made significant contributions to Arab and Islamic civilization since the introduction of Islam,[8][3] and they have had a significant impact contributing the culture of the Middle East and North Africa and other areas.[9][10][11]
Christian influences on the Islamic world

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: quintessentone

They also traded extensively when looting and pillaging were not preferable.

Also the Viking Age(793–1066) would seen to fit the time period regarding the Abbasid caliphate(750–1258) or thereabouts.

It appears the Rus (Norsemen) raided Iran (was Persia back then) in the late 9th century, so it fits within the time period, also they took slaves so there is my imagined marriage or fusion of cultures/religions, perhaps.

en.wikipedia.org...

As a dynasty located at the intersection of Eastern and Western cultures, the Abbasid Dynasty was influenced by cultures from different regions . This kind of cultural exchange made Abbasid fashion integrate elements from Persia, Byzantium, Central Asia and other places, forming a unique style.

inf.news...

Here is a wikipedia source with cross variants, if we didn't have enough to think about.

en.wikipedia.org...


And the Byzantine Period cross design looks quite similar.

gem.app...

originally posted by: RussianTroll

... with the inscription in Arabic “In the name of Allah”. Here it is:

"...with the Arabic inscription 'God Wills It' engraved at its glass centre."

What do you think?

Which is it?