Free Palestine (from Hamas)

Hamas knew from the start how Israel would respond to its act of war. Dead Palestinian children were already added into the account when Hamas began.

Hamas initiated a war with a country that had a proven record of responding to attacks by using extreme force. Hamas henchmen murdered raped and ravaged Israeli civilians young and old while filming the carnage, kidnapped civilians, then retreated into neighborhoods using its citizens as a shield.

They returned to cheering crowds, perhaps some who were also out on the streets cheering American dead after 9/11. Though the heads of Hamas are billionaires and live far from the streets of Gaza, the henchmen retreated to tunnels and homes with their spoils (stolen men women and children).

They goaded Israel into a response, the response seen time and again from Israel, surely hoping for high body counts to draw the world’s sympathy to their cause. They sacrificed their own people (martyred, they would say) and are just as responsible for their dead as they are for the war crimes of Oct 7. They egregiously violated international laws that day and then ran and hid, dragging innocent people with them, among people who seemed to be content to shield them and some to even cheer them on their way.

Very likely Palestinians who oppose Hamas have been cowed into submission due to Hamas’s practice of executing people for (among other things) crimes against Islamic law, land sales to Israelis, and treason.” Here is an Amnesty International report detailing Hamas detaining, torturing, then executing Palestinians suspected of “collaborating” with Israel:
Hamas tortured and killed Palestinian 'collaborators' during Gaza conflict - new report | Amnesty International UK
www.amnesty.org.uk...
Also in the linked report:

Hamas forces also abducted, tortured or attacked members and supporters of Fatah, their main rival political organisation within Gaza, including former members of the Palestinian Authority security forces. Not a single person has been held accountable for the crimes committed by Hamas forces against Palestinians during the 2014 conflict, indicating that these crimes were either ordered or condoned by the authorities.

So Hamas murders political opponents as well as anyone deemed “sympathetic” to Israel.

I know for a fact that there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Palestinians who weren’t cheering Hamas in the streets after the massacre. These are the people I speak for:

Palestine does indeed need to be freed, and I raise my voice with the crowd… Free Palestine! from Hamas.

Do you people not listen, I'll say it again in biggie letters:- PALESTINIANS VOTED HAMAS INTO POWER, THEY ARE THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY. NOW DO YOU GET IT? I don't know what country you are in but it's the same the whole world over, you vote a government in then you have to live with it till the next election. You cannot half way through decide you don't like their policies and throw them out. Just because Hamas is a terror organisation and even terrorises it's own citizens is neither here nor there, they voted for them.

a reply to: crayzeed

I can't hear you. Mind shouting a bit more loudly? Thanks in advance.

I suppose Hamas gained 100 percent of the vote?

PS you're acting as if the elections are taking place in a free democratic society, when Hamas tortures and murders its opponents

originally posted by: zosimov


They goaded Israel into a response, the response seen time and again from Israel, surely hoping for high body counts to draw the world’s sympathy to their cause. They sacrificed their own people (martyred, they would say) and are just as responsible for their dead as they are for the war crimes of Oct 7. They egregiously violated international laws that day and then ran and hid, dragging innocent people with them, among people who seemed to be content to shield them and some to even cheer them on their way.

Palestine does indeed need to be freed, and I raise my voice with the crowd… Free Palestine! from Hamas.

I 99% agree with everything you said here, and I applaud the comprehensibility.

The emboldened words(bold mine), however, I do not agree with, as HAMAS, and any brutal terrorist organization, probably knows very well they are perceived by the rest of the world with disgust, revulsion, and rejection.

I do not believe they were trying to gain general global sympathy or empathy by committing acts of violence towards innocent civilians, as the laying down of weapons would have surely generated such sentiments.

It has to be for reasons of continuing the destabilization of the civilian world in the region, by inciting revenge-hatred towards Israel and Jewish people anywhere, just like what Israel is doing by killing HAMAS no matter how thick is their human shield.

Both HAMAS and Israeli government are operating in such a way as to guarantee revenge-violence for generations to come.

Are they both playing by the same warfare handbook...?

a reply to: BiothermalReactor

Your point in bold is a very interesting one, and I fully agree with it. Actions from both extremes do seem to be leading toward a perpetual war; a peaceful resolution a distant possibility.

originally posted by: crayzeed
Do you people not listen, I'll say it again in biggie letters:- PALESTINIANS VOTED HAMAS INTO POWER, THEY ARE THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY. NOW DO YOU GET IT? I don't know what country you are in but it's the same the whole world over, you vote a government in then you have to live with it till the next election. You cannot half way through decide you don't like their policies and throw them out. Just because Hamas is a terror organisation and even terrorises it's own citizens is neither here nor there, they voted for them.

Just like Biden got 81 million votes in 2020, right?!

I don’t buy that Palestinians truly voted for terrorists to run their country.

originally posted by: zosimov
a reply to: BiothermalReactor

Actions from both extremes do seem to be leading toward a perpetual war; a peaceful resolution a distant possibility.

Peaceful resolution: exterminate the animals who hate our religion, no matter how thick their innocent-human shield.

a reply to: crayzeed

PALESTINIANS VOTED HAMAS INTO POWER, THEY ARE THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY. NOW DO YOU GET IT?

And when was that election ? , the PNA is run by Mahmoud Abbas's Fatah , they are not Hamas.

Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich.

“A cell with a small area like the Gaza Strip without natural resources and independent sources of livelihood has no chance to exist independently, economically and politically in such a high density for a long time.

“The reception of refugees by the countries of the world that really want their best interests, with the support and generous financial assistance of the international community and within the state of Israel, is the only solution that will bring to an end the suffering and pain of Jews and Arabs alike.”

“The state of Israel will no longer be able to put up with the existence of an independent entity in Gaza,” he added.
www.aljazeera.com...

The objective of this war has been clear from the outset , statements like above help confirm what was suspected.

a reply to: zosimov

Even if they are free, I just don't want one.

a reply to: chr0naut

Ok, that's funny

a reply to: zosimov

In addition to hamas which I'd like to see very dead, I'd also like to shoot every last son-of-a-bitch who cheered when they dragged the dead Israeli woman who had been raped through the streets.

Get rid of hamas, but also get rid of every last bastard who supports them.

Or else you'll never be rid of these vile sub-humans.

a reply to: DBCowboy

I agree. Get rid of Hamas and every last cheering supporter. I'd propose Hague or Guantanamo for anyone who hadn't directly murdered/raped (committed capital crimes) but in any case they need to go.



Then we can have peace.

a reply to: zosimov

it's damn complex. but if you look at it superficially, israel has been attacked since its foundation, from all sides. and they have won every time. unfortunately, it is understandable that a deep hatred is rooted in some israelis. on the other hand, a terrorist state can thrive right on your border, which doesn't give a sh... about its people. the UN (and other western organisations) make sure that the people there don't starve. hamas spends its billions on weapons and uses the population as shields. gaza is the most densely populated place on earth if i'm not mistaken. unfortunately, more people die when a bomb falls there than when a rocket hits a field somewhere in israel - and they shoot rockets regulary.

A report I read on NPR says that Israel was very close to an agreement with Saudi Arabia.

I guess that's not going to happen now.

Wonder who stood most likely to gain from putting the kibosh on that deal?

a reply to: zosimov

They goaded Israel into a response, the response seen time and again from Israel, surely hoping for high body counts to draw the world’s sympathy to their cause. They sacrificed their own people (martyred, they would say) and are just as responsible for their dead as they are for the war crimes of Oct 7.

I agree with your OP and like you said, my first thoughts were surely Hamas would know the massive response in retaliation for these attacks. But I realized it isn't about gaining the world's sympathy for the Palestinians, it's about gaining funds for themselves, and about perpetuating the cycle of violence so they can remain relevant. They were voted in 2006, a long time ago especially considering the majority of Palestinians were not even born then or were very young. The population is a very young one, so a new generation had to be traumatized, so Hamas can stay in power.

But it was mostly to gain funds to enrich themselves, if that's not sad enough, the Israeli leaders are more or less guilty of the same thing. Neither sides leadership want peace as it threatens their own longer term ambitions.

a reply to: AllisVibration

Hamas is pretty wealthy, when it comes to funds Gaza gets from other countries, including terrorist sponsoring ones, yearly hamas gets 1 b. While Gaza lives in poverty.

Gaza is plagued by poverty, but Hamas has no shortage of cash. Where does it come from?.

Soo if Hamas is not in charge how do they get their filfthy hands in all that money.

Hamas has an investment portfolio of real estate and other assets worth $500 million, say experts, and an annual military budget of as much as $350 million.

www.nbcnews.com...

A look at the billions of dollars in foreign aid to Gaza

Yep, Gaza should be living in comfort, but Hamas leaders get to live in luxury.

apnews.com...

Oh puurrrleeese. Use your computer and it will tell you that the Palestinian people vote in 2006 for Hamas to get the majority in the Palestinian Legislative Council and since then in their words they have run the Palestine territories as an autocratic, one party state. But you all seem to ignore this FACT and that is why the Palestinian flag is an Hamas flag. And just like the USA who you vote for you have to live or die by your choice.

a reply to: crayzeed

You're talking about an "election" 17 years ago. There might be a touch more nuance than that.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Just strip them of their human rights and citizenship. Make them outlaws, pick another name if you really must...

I don't disagree with you but at the same time what you're saying is absolutely nuts. I'd like us to keep some semblance of civilization and order so dumb things like due process, human rights and constitutional rights kind of matter.

Right?

originally posted by: zosimov
a reply to: crayzeed

You're talking about an "election" 17 years ago. There might be a touch more nuance than that.

But, it's still THEIR government. Unless a country, like the U.S A., stages a coup, they're stuck with their own government, until they (the People) vote or force a change.