Does Israel have the right to bomb America to destroy Hamas?

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: ADVISOR

Thanks Advisor I been missing your threads too, SO is back, or it seems is him,

Yes I remember we had plenty of talks about the Rex 84, is funny how things come back to haunt us.

I believe that many of the terrorist that has been caught coming across the border has been taken somewhere, the problem is that the government is letting many of these individuals free in the streets pending court day, they just disappear, this is due to the fact that while some of these individuals are link to terrorist groups the biden administration classified them as nonviolent.

The FBI has warned the government about it, the latest I heard is that with the protest many will be investigated.

Got any source on that?

This woman was brandishishing a sign with a star of david morphing into a swastika, peacefully, and was arrested.

Jewish Holocaust survivor: Israel is turning Gaza into a 'death camp'

a reply to: BiothermalReactor

So Israel is supposed to go after civilians and terrorists alike?

Explanation: It depends on where Israel draws the line eh?

It also depends on where you or I draw the line ok.

Personal Disclosure: The following is my opinion and it is not based upon the current standards for war ok.

I define civilians as children, and civilians are immune for being targeted in war ...

and I define citizens as adults and I see citizens as a viable target group for several reasons ...

1: Citizens get to vote and hence are culpable for their government!
2: Citizens finance the war via taxes etc.
3: Citizens are, or become, combatants eventually.

Your milage may vary ok.

So may Israels milage vary ok.

In the current war in Gaza, there are 2million people in Gaza of which 50% are children.

The current death toll body count on the Gazan side is about 10,000+ deaths and about 50% of that is children who have been killed.

I don't think that is meeting the tests for distinction and proportionality, and is hence a WAR CRIME on the part of Israel.

But we have a long way to go until one can accurately accuse Israel of commiting GENOCIDE [50%+ losses of the adult citizens = 500,000+ deaths]

Something to factor in ok ...

In Gaza, Hamas fighters are among civilians. There is nowhere else for them to go

Where do you draw the line eh?

a reply to: BiothermalReactor

The links to the FBI and warning details of terrorist coming across the border has been ongoing in many threads, I will do you a favor and will post a link, but that is all I will do.

FBI DIRECTOR WRAY CONFIRMS THE BORDER CRISIS POSES MAJOR HOMELAND SECURITY THREAT, DHS SECRETARY MAYORKAS STONEWALLS

In the hearing, members received confirmation of the urgent national security threat posed by the nearly 1.8 million known gotaways and the rising number of individuals on the terrorist watchlist apprehended crossing the Southwest border—especially as America’s enemies, including Iran-backed Hamas and Hezbollah, have been emboldened to spread their malign influence following the October 7 terrorist attacks on our ally, Israel. Wray confirmed these facts in his testimony and alluded to Chairman Green that the national security consequences of the crisis have turned every state into a border state. Director Wray even confirmed all 56 FBI joint terrorism task forces are occupied with threats coming across the border.

Worse, Mayorkas could not confirm that every suspected terrorist that crosses the Southwest border illegally is detained by U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP), while Wray admitted that the FBI is still attempting to locate certain individuals on the terrorist watchlist who have crossed into the United States. Throughout his testimony, Mayorkas consistently refused to answer direct questions about how his policies have opened America’s borders, and the national security consequences of those policies.

homeland.house.gov... lls/

The FBI Director Warns About Threats to Americans From Those Inspired by the Hamas Attack on Israel

www.usnews.com... rael

Arrests of people on FBI terror watch list crossing border illegally hits 100-year high

www.washingtonexaminer.com...

a reply to: Degradation33

That's how it should go down realistically.

Nobody is asking for nation's to publicly disclose sensitive details regarding terrorism but they all should be insisting on following international law. Should be a piece of cake to get balls rolling since most modern nations recognise hamas as the terrorist group that resides in Syria for what it is. They also don't recognise Palestine so there's no diplomatic immunity or anything like that to be had.

It's the likes of Qatar, Syria, Iran and the rest of the middle east where Israel going after hamas members would get interesting. I'm guessing it wouldn't matter too much if the killings aren't done by Russians, N Koreans or Iranians.

a reply to: marg6043

"The FBI Director Warns About Threats to Americans From Those Inspired by the Hamas Attack on Israel"

This is comedy gold.

As I said earlier, those new terrorist recruits are looking at what is relentlessly ongoing to the civilians in GAZA, their back-home families.

They're not inspired by the 0ct 7th attacks in any way other than as revenge for their mass murdered families.



:laughsoidontcry:

originally posted by: OmegaLogos
a reply to: BiothermalReactor

Where do you draw the line eh?

The innocent civilian males, innocent civilian females, innocent civilian children, and innocent civilian babies.

Does that include enough relevant people of Planet Earth?

War is a game, and if you play, EVERYONE LOSES!

a reply to: BiothermalReactor

Soo what are you doing here, a pro hamas sympathizer? anti Israeli? anti American? or maybe just somebody to push for an agenda on narratives, you know propaganda.

Whatever it is, you are on your own, have a great day.

BTW the thread is about an idea, an opinion, What is US gets bombed by Israel.

Plain and simple, I am sure the thread opener is very concern.

I say nope, is not going to happen.

a reply to: BiothermalReactor

Explanation: How do you define innocent please?

Personal Disclosure: I find ALL adult Palestinian Gazans to be fully culpable as per how I laid out in my post above and I will requote it here for convenience ...

and I define citizens as adults and I see citizens as a viable target group for several reasons ...

1: Citizens get to vote and hence are culpable for their government!
2: Citizens finance the war via taxes etc.
3: Citizens are, or become, combatants eventually.

... and hence there are NO innocent adult males or females in Gaza currently according to that metric.

However I agree that the children/babies are innocent and hence not viable targets but that they may become unfortunate collateral damage targets and the metric for whether that is acceptable is both the laws for Military Distinction and Military Proportionality and that the line for that has already been broken by Israel and IS a WAR CRIME currently.

Show me your metric for innocence ok.

a reply to: OmegaLogos

Is the person NOT inflicting violence on another person?

Innocent

a reply to: BiothermalReactor

If the events on October 7th can't inspire terrorism then how the hell did the events of that day come about?

Something inspired them and it wasn't the Easter bunny. It might have been earlier misery that inspired them but I cannot disregard the fact that Hamas are a dedicated terrorist outfit, they only fight in Palestine it's not where they base the majority of their ilk.

My money is on propaganda and brainwashing. People aspiring to join the likes of hamas or Isis were raised on hate or have severe mental illness. Because you have to be seriously tapped in the head to believe anything outfits like that believe.

The utterly nutterly mindset that creates terrorists often comes from a place of righteousness but they're hardly ever right are they? They should bugger off into a cave somewhere and keep it between them and their god.
The warnings are very believable. It's all murder in my eyes and the rest is mental gymnastics and so called justification.

a reply to: OmegaLogos

Do you recognise Palestine as a state?

It kind of matters when you're talking about war crimes like collective punishment. Palestine isn't Hamas. It's barely a place really, hence all the dual citizenships.

a reply to: RAY1990

The mindset of new recruits is primarily trauma.

Don't Islamic practitioners in the USA have families in Gaza?

I doubt they are watching the news now and thinking, "Glory to God I finally have a reason to become a terrorist! YAY!"

No, they're thinking, "I WILL AVENGE YOU my cousins, fathers, mothers, sons, daughters, brothers, and sisters!"

originally posted by: Daughter2v2
No one really has said when Israel should stop.

Netanyahu along with various anti-Palestine posters here on ATS have avoided the question.

Let's say some members of Hamas came over the Mexican border. They moved into a large US apartment complex with a few hundred citizens.

Israel feels threatened by having these supporters alive. The Hamas supporters lawyer up with a US attorney claiming it can't be proved they are terrorists. They get a liberal bleeding heart judge and they get to stay in the US.

Does Israel now get to bomb the US residential apartment complex for its safety?

This is too complex for me...I am a simple man!

a reply to: BiothermalReactor

Well...

Any religious person can find decent enough verses that'll appeal to humanity just like they can find some for the opposite.

Morality is ultimately a personal question. People intent on harming the innocent only need 1 bullet and that's for themselves imho but that's me. I'd honestly hope they'd take pause and question why eyes sparkle in the first place.

I doubt they are watching the news now and thinking, "Glory to God I finally have a reason to become a terrorist! YAY!"

Justification, not reasoning.

a reply to: RAY1990

ANYTHING can be used as justification, as long as there's trauma as a reason for revenge.

a reply to: BiothermalReactor

I fully understand that.

Still wrong whether it's self-righteous revenge or vengeance. There's nothing quite as ugly as vindictiveness. Trauma is also subjective as it's an experience. When my moral compass starts singing Kylie Minoque songs (spinning around) I've learned to laugh.

The world's miserable enough isn't it? Stay centered and stay decent is my advise to anyone wondering where the sun sets.l

a reply to: BiothermalReactor

Explanation: In an ideal world I'd agree ... BUT we don't live in an ideal world ... we live in reality ok!

And REALITY DICTATES the following ...

Kinetic war is just political warfare by other means and political warfare is just economic warfare by other means ...

Therefor it is eternal warfare on everybody and everything all of the time everywhere ...

All the tax $'s Hamas supporters provide to Hamas to enact kinetic war on Israel on their behalf is an act of violence! [Economic warfare]

And all the votes that Hamas supporters provide to Hamas to enact kinetic war on Israel on their behalf is also an act of violence! [Political Warfare]

So show me one innocent adult Palestinian Gazan ok.

I bet you cant as they don't exist!!!

I strongly suggest you get a better real world valid metric rather than relying on falsely based ideals eh!

originally posted by: OmegaLogos
a reply to: BiothermalReactor
So show me one innocent adult Palestinian Gazan ok.

I bet you cant as they don't exist!!!

I strongly suggest you get a better real world valid metric rather than relying on falsely based ideals eh!

This highlights the tunnel-vision blind support for Israel and all they do by any means necessary in the name of the free-thinking compassionate innocent Jewish people the world over.

It's disgusting and an affront to all free-thinking compassionate innocent people the world over, regardless of skin-tone, religion, political party, income level, geographical habitat, etc. etc. etc.

It also puts Israel, as well as all the countries that lend vocal commendations for the slaughter, as well as all the Jewish persons in the world, in grave and real danger in the future, for generations to come.

No innocent civilians? As long as they aren't Jewish or American, what other qualifiers narrow down what entails "innocent civilian?"

Edit2Add:™

How would anyone feel if their child was among the "collateral damage" of the hypothetical IDF strike on terrorists on US soil?

a reply to: BiothermalReactor

No innocent civilians? As long as they aren't Jewish or American, what other qualifiers narrow down what entails "innocent civilian?"

Explanation: NOPE! READ MY POST AGAIN!

I SAID NO INNOCENT CITIZENS!

Personal Disclosure: I find ALL adult Palestinian Gazans to be fully culpable as per how I laid out in my post above and I will requote it here for convenience ...

and I define citizens as adults and I see citizens as a viable target group for several reasons ...

1: Citizens get to vote and hence are culpable for their government!
2: Citizens finance the war via taxes etc.
3: Citizens are, or become, combatants eventually. ...

and hence there are NO innocent adult males or females in Gaza currently according to that metric.

Personal Disclosure: Get your head outta your ass and see it my way or you are being disingenuous and not debating in good faith!

That you cant seem to see the difference between civilians [innocent kids] and citizens [adult combatants] highlights your tunnel-vision blind support for Hamas!

You still haven't provided any 'innocent adult Palestinian Gazan's' at all!!!

Note: I support neither Israel nor Hamas in this conflict ok!