The Future & Cephalopods

rethink everything. If we don't do that we will have no future.
That sounds alarmist to many but as matter of fact we know that we live on a planet (spaceship) with finite ressources and that we can't develop further in wealth, globally speaking, because that means more consumption and only the part that really consumes at the moment uses it all up 4 or 5 months into each year.
So here we run into the real reason for all conflicts and wars: struggle for a bigger cut of the pie. The relative deprivation that made Russia invade Ukraine, or Hamas terrorise Israel, or the migration we see...
It is all part of the same problem: we can't develop more wealth and a more just distribution of it because of finite ressources.

Alternatively I think cephalopods are a strong candidate for who will be the next dominant intelligent species on Earth.

there is adocumentary on Magellan I believe? Also you can pay for it on YouTube 'cephalopods conquer the seas'
Cephalopods are taking over the seas. Travel around the world, from the abyssal trenches to remote coral reefs, to unveil the secrets of their success.
A completely different type of intelligence.

The Crocodiles also survived the last mass extinction period being able to live between the land and sea. If it gets really bad, the jelly fish are on the suspect list for where animals started to evolve from plants.

When it does come to smarts, cephalopods are doing great.

a reply to: FurPerson

I would probably agree if they lived longer than just a few years.

If they can solve that they will be a problem.

a reply to: FurPerson

Granted Cephalopods are pretty smart.

But i have to ponder how they would ever develop or utilize the likes of fire from a technological perspective.

Given the environment in which they exist which would seem to be a prerequisite where so many other technological developments are concerned.

I suppose that's a very human way of looking at it all the same, or rather land-dweller's perspective.

a reply to: andy06shake

If your imagination for technology ends at fire:

land-dweller's perspective.

very land-dweller-esque thinking, also like I said they are a completely different intelligence:

Cephalopods have the largest and most complex invertebrate nervous system. During evolution, the “brain” was assembled through the fusion of a number of molluscan ganglia to form lobes connected to the periphery by many nerve trunks regulating the arms, viscera and other parts of the animal's body. Although their nervous system is confined to the basic molluscan form comprising a set of (five to) six pairs of ganglia, it has a complexity akin to that of lower vertebrates (Bullock, 1965; Budelmann B. U., 1995), but with important functional analogies when compared with higher vertebrates (Shigeno et al., 2018).

link

Electricity is much more important than fire and wouldn't require the invention of fire to be discovered just saying.

Lizzid Peeple

a reply to: kwaka

a reply to: FurPerson

It's quite hard to look at it from anything but a Human perspective FurPerson given our condition.

It's not that my imagination ends at fire but humanity's fascination with technological advancements may well have started with the likes of the ability to control and produce fire.

Fire has been a crucial technological advancement for human societies for several reasons.

Take cooking, heat and warmth, light, tool making, protection, communication, metallurgy, ceramics, land management, industrial processes, and chemistry, including the production of electricity generation and thats but to name a few areas where the ability to control fire is a key.

Then there is the cultural, religious, and ritual significance, where fire has played a role in our development as a species.

Fire has been a transformative technology for humanity that has shaped human development, enabling our very survival, helping to improve our nutrition, and as i have said has helped foster the development of more advanced technologies.

Not having the ability to produce such down to the environment in which it exists may indeed inhibit and prevent the likes of aquatic species from developing technology as far as i can establish.

a reply to: andy06shake

All I am saying is they must perceive the world very differently and those first steps which are really the only ones where fire is a 'must'

Take cooking, heat and warmth, light,

might not be necessary for the Cephalopods at all they could take a different route, perceive electrons directly fe I don't know if there have any studies been done, I believe I remember frogs can? oh no I think that's photons, but still who knows with those creatures.

a reply to: FurPerson

All I am saying is they must perceive the world very differently and those first steps which are really the only ones where fire is a 'must'

Agreed.

And the thing is we are only just beginning to understand what constitutes life in some respects where certain areas of our own planet is concerned never mind where the beginnings of sentience may reside.

might not be necessary for the Cephalopods at all they could take a different route, perceive electrons directly fe I don't know if there have any studies been done, I believe I remember frogs can? oh no I think that's photons, but still who knows with those creatures.

How would they perceive individual electrons through without the likes of technology(Electron Microscopy)?

After all its a subatomic particle which is smaller than the wavelengths of visible light.

My understanding is that according to the Standard Model, an electron has no extent, a radius of zero, and as such, the particle could never be observed, but only indirectly observed.

a reply to: andy06shake

How would they perceive individual electrons through without the likes of technology

lol
I'd imagine 'as a wave'

a reply to: FurPerson

Well, I've seen Octopuses somewhat "wave" at people, so there is that.

Fascinating animals.

Those things have captivated my attention and imagination since as far back to being a child as I can remember.

They communicate telepathically with chosen humans to help further the technology needed to destroy ourselves so that, yes, they can take over one day.

I’m half kidding, half mermaid, full on crazy.

Carry on. I’m trying to get 20 posts.

a reply to: FurPerson

I could see that. Won't be humans.

And if I understand the galaxy correctly, the dolphins will leave before we do, so it won't remain them.

My only hangup would be the limitations to exploit industrious intelligence underwater.

They might start harvesting drifting debris and making squid shivs, but the advanced potential I feel is limited.

But then there are still sharks, same body type, same bloodthirsty behavior, dumb as sh*t compared to Orca, but they certainly found a niche that doesn't lend to much need for evolution. The ocean screws with it and makes evolution plateau.

I want the intelligent beatnik kangaroo mutants from Tank Girl.

When it comes to brain power, Dolphins are doing great, lot getting harvested, sure a few strong ones know the good spots. Some of these whales, big target these days. Live a long time when they can.

If the Cephalopods do find a stone age with their agility, who/what is making these underwater UFO's?

a reply to: FurPerson

Weren't the Lovecraftian hyperdimensional entities tentacled?



But on a more factual level, it looks like the particular biology of cephalopods requires water with high salt concentrations, so in molecular biological evolutionary terms, they seem to have environmental limits that would prevent them from interaction with our domain, at least until they can mechanize and carry their environments with them.

I also think that the structure of their nervous system is vastly different to ours as their neurons have no myelin sheath and so to isolate neural signals it is necessary that their neurons are quite large in size. This means that the density of their brains and nervous systems is nowhere near ours which probably explains the relative size of their brains.

Perhaps as we seem to have arisen as conscious intelligent creatures before any others on the planet, we should shepherd the other more intelligent species on their ascension? Perhaps forming a consortium of different types of intelligences, which will help us survive the challengers ahead (if we can avoid the tentacle porn, which I'm sure won't win us any friends)?

a reply to: FurPerson

I'm glad you said finite and not glad you said finite at the same time... As space is infinite until "hitting" more resources.

So here's the good the "we" keeps going... As oh no the torch, candle, the lamp, the incandescent is not good enough. The bad is not enough of them so demand requires supply and then there's always: Something lacking.

Some room for improvement or better shall we beat that dead cheese? Mouse trap.

Whats worse is those people happy to go back and live in caves or county? Oh that's not a good enough life... Then blame the huge big giant trash dump of old for new in that innovation.

Yay recycling! Um no not for me personally. A one off use sure... A one off use from something that works? No but it seems my neck has hit her trap enough to not care or follow it any more.

Good luck to the rest of you fellas. I'm a lone siittin' "dog" and happy to be it... Since they do that anyway someone without the patience to see that with surprise would yell: "Who taught it!" when it occurs.

Is the ability to learn through trial and error really a sign of higher intelligence? I think the very short lifespan of Cephalopods shows that the type of intelligence they possess is really basic stuff. Pretty much all animal life has that ability.

a reply to: chr0naut

Weren't the Lovecraftian hyperdimensional entities tentacled?

you laugh but that is exactly the thought that went through my head too after posting this.

I think of it more as a decentralised computing system vs our centralised one.

Perhaps as we seem to have arisen as conscious intelligent creatures before any others on the planet, we should shepherd the other more intelligent species on their ascension? Perhaps forming a consortium of different types of intelligences, which will help us survive the challengers ahead (if we can avoid the tentacle porn, which I'm sure won't win us any friends)?

That was beautiful... until you made it weird at the end

originally posted by: FurPerson
a reply to: chr0naut

Weren't the Lovecraftian hyperdimensional entities tentacled?

you laugh but that is exactly the thought that went through my head too after posting this.

I think of it more as a decentralised computing system vs our centralised one.

Perhaps as we seem to have arisen as conscious intelligent creatures before any others on the planet, we should shepherd the other more intelligent species on their ascension? Perhaps forming a consortium of different types of intelligences, which will help us survive the challengers ahead (if we can avoid the tentacle porn, which I'm sure won't win us any friends)?

That was beautiful... until you made it weird at the end

It's always weird, especially at the end...