Parents Against Military Slavery:

So, judging from responses were going to have a mass exodus to canada.
What ever happened to death before dishonor? I guess i was just raised by vets so in my opinion it is a great honor to serve your country.

I've done my time already...
Funny choice of phrase, considering what the topic is here, huh?

The Rate I had in the Navy was in a strictly national *defensive* position. I scored high enough on the ASVAB to choose whatever Rate I wanted & kept my A & C School scores high (Required an average grade rating of 80% just to pass through).

As I've said, my position & duty was strictly defensive in nature...Maintainence & repair of specialized equipment that monitored our own shorelines. Since it required a minimum of Secret level clearance, I can't say more.

When was this? I was already on station when Daddy Bush took Office! Right away, things started going to hell, accelerating to lightspeed. I performed my duty to defend this nation so I'll be damned if I let the current government draft/conscript/whatever our nation's youth just to go commit murder (well, what is war if it isn't murder?) on foreign soil.

Besides, even though I'm not military anymore, I remember that all military personel are required to swer (or affirm) an oath to defend this nation against all enemies, foreign or domestic...IMO, this nation's greatest enemies already occupy our Capital, sitting in the Offices that should be reserved for Public Servants.

[edit on 13-4-2005 by MidnightDStroyer]

Originally posted by Trustnone
What ever happened to death before dishonor?

- Nothing 'happened' to it.

It remains an empty platitude designed to manipulate the unthinking ie those who'll watz off to their doom with their head filled with notions of 'heroism' and jingoistic BS without giving the matter the slightest serious thought.

If that 'works' for you, rock on.

I suspect many will not be quite so easily led.

MidnightDestroyer says:

"Besides, even though I'm not military anymore, I remember that all military personel are required to swer (or affirm) an oath to defend this nation against all enemies, foreign or domestic...IMO, this nation's greatest enemies already occupy our Capital, sitting in the Offices that should be reserved for Public Servants."

Not quite; it's: "I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."


There's a huge difference.

you also forget to that there are those who live by Bible Principle, and in the Bible it says to remain nuetral in any Political or military conflict, if this is the persons belief as far as i know You are a conciencious objector and i think there are laws in the US that says this is an ok reason for someone to not serve in the military

Originally posted by Esoterica
I too would like to see a source of 70-year old vets being called up for duty. I mean, they couldn't do anything except work in an office back in the states anyway...

Here ya go Esoterica:

You're Never Too Old To Join The Oil Crusade

As I pointed out in my post on Sunday's Meet The Press, the officer corps of the US military knows - and more importantly, is admitting openly - that they do not have enough people in uniform to keep up with the insane demands of George Warmonger Bu$h and the BFEE/PNAC Petroleum Pirate Posse. While neither the Bu$h nor the Cheney daughters (Nor the mothers, come to think of it) have yet been called up, and Louisiana is registering 15-year-old males, one does have to wonder how long it is going to be when the First and Second daughters 'voluntarily' enlist. Especially when one reads this:

Source


So it's like Toys R' Us...with guns!!!

To be fair, I'd not have just believed it outright either, but this is not the only situation like this. I'm digging for a few others and will post them as I find 'em.

Haven't read any other responses on here yet, will do that in a bit.

X

[edit on 13-4-2005 by Xatnys]

[edit on 13-4-2005 by Xatnys]

[edit on 04/11/05 by Grey Fox]

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
Of course, you have every right to quack about the military as "slavery" since you live in a (more or less) free country. Ironically, it is the military, who are denied certain freedoms, who have historically maintained those freedoms for the rest of you.

But just because you have a right to discuss the military, your abysmal ignorance is a good reason for me -- and any other veteran who chooses -- to laugh your comments off.

Ok.. so what exactly were you getting at then?

You said you did 2 years AD or you mean Reserve duty? As you said you joined the reserves at 17.

Regardless, if you did in fact do 2 years active duty, you do realize that every single moment of that 2 years was not yours, right?

You are property of the United States of America while serving, reservists have a funny way of forgetting that as they get to flounder about in civy life most times; but that doesn't make it any less true.

Granted slowly, as rank increases, you are granted more and more forms of personal liberty, but so did the slaves who were most loyal and given preferential treatment....

Wanted to let you know I respect your USN service. My family has a large history with that little branch of the Navy called the U.S.M.C. . Matter of fact, I have a brother in Marine Force Recon as I type this up to you. He's active duty, full time leathernect, Hollywood Marine and loves his Corps. But he'll tell you the same exact thing I just did.

Right now you volunteer. You enter of your own free will and you come to the understanding with Uncle Sam(not before the bus comes to get you, no later than your first night at boot) that your @ss is his. He own you and you do what is TOLD of you.

Like I said, he loves the crap he does as a recon marine, he loves the corps, but he holds no illusions to what service in today's world is.

And if there is a draft or mandatory reform, you've gone from voluntary servitude to involuntary slavery.


Anyway, I didn't even need to respond to you on that as those words that "stung" you on whatever level were not my own. They are the title of the thread because they are the title of the article, that simple.

But I stand by them, by the by.

Nice talking to you,

X

MidnightDStroyer,

Sounds like you went around the block and then woke up to a world different than the one you thought you were living in. Congrats on the awakening and keep on going!

X

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

Originally posted by Trustnone
What ever happened to death before dishonor?

- Nothing 'happened' to it.

It remains an empty platitude designed to manipulate the unthinking ie those who'll watz off to their doom with their head filled with notions of 'heroism' and jingoistic BS without giving the matter the slightest serious thought.

If that 'works' for you, rock on.

I suspect many will not be quite so easily led.

Great response, I know some that buy that crap right up, guzzle it down and then ask for seconds. To each his own, I guess; but:

It ain't me.

X

Originally posted by zakattack
you also forget to that there are those who live by Bible Principle, and in the Bible it says to remain nuetral in any Political or military conflict, if this is the persons belief as far as i know You are a conciencious objector and i think there are laws in the US that says this is an ok reason for someone to not serve in the military

Could you cite something on that for me?

I could swear that I read of a lot of 'nam C.O.s being told to "shut up and shave your head, hippie" when they tried to use the bible as a valid C.O. defense.

X

Great thread!

It sure is a heck of a topic that's been debated a lot since Bush's election but I think this thread has been a great one with lots of opinions on both sides.

Personally I understand the concerns about a draft. I'm not a parent myself but will freely admit if a draft does come into being when I have kids, of course I won't want them to leave my home and go to a dangerous area. Any parent would feel the same way.

The only thing I do disagree with in this thread though is the thought that no one joins the military with the idea that they are doing a noble work defending the country. In talking to MANY people who have served, or currently are serving in the military, I have found a variety of reasons for why people signed up. Some include financial reasons, and yes... some include people saying they felt they needed to do something to defend the country. Interestingly enough, many that I have met who said that reason were not born in the US.

oh, thats funny hippy "it aint me" i do like CCR, but i am not about to grow my hair long and start burning flags. I dont swallow the whole anti-war thing whole if all people thought like you there would be no america. I guess some people would rather be submisive than risk fighting and dieing. Like william wallace said in Braveheart "Aye, fight and you may die, run and you'll live, at least awhile".
quit whining about a draft. If you had to defend your home i doubt you would sit idly by while other people fight and die, at least i hope.

Edited to remove a foul insult. Please do not use derogitory terms to refer to other members, thanks.

[edit on 4-13-2005 by Djarums]

Originally posted by Djarums
Great thread!

It sure is a heck of a topic that's been debated a lot since Bush's election but I think this thread has been a great one with lots of opinions on both sides.

Personally I understand the concerns about a draft. I'm not a parent myself but will freely admit if a draft does come into being when I have kids, of course I won't want them to leave my home and go to a dangerous area. Any parent would feel the same way.

The only thing I do disagree with in this thread though is the thought that no one joins the military with the idea that they are doing a noble work defending the country. In talking to MANY people who have served, or currently are serving in the military, I have found a variety of reasons for why people signed up. Some include financial reasons, and yes... some include people saying they felt they needed to do something to defend the country. Interestingly enough, many that I have met who said that reason were not born in the US.

Yeah I've been really impressed with how the thread has flowed as well.

And you're right on about people joining for the "noble cause" . I'm sure many of them do, I've had family do so. '

Thanks for stopping by, your thoughts are appreciated


X











Trustnone,

What's with all the name calling and immaturity? I started to lose interest in your post at:

oh, thats funny hippy "it aint me"

Which while guttural, does show you got the reference I was making.

But to start calling people pusses and other "boyish creativity" made me lose interest in anything else you had to say.

Best of luck to you, friend. Get back to me should you realize that vomiting insults is not the best way to create a good discussion.

Thank you,

X

Originally posted by Esoterica
I too would like to see a source of 70-year old vets being called up for duty. I mean, they couldn't do anything except work in an office back in the states anyway...

Actually, it may be true. A friend's dad was called up a year ago at the ripe old age of 59 to to do paper work in DC. Fact is, alot of recruits don't sign up for desk duty and his MOS is only truely important during times of war. Even at his old age and the cicumstances, he was proud to do it. I guess you could say he felt it was his duty. Men like him are few and far between now a days unfortunately.

Originally posted by notbuynit

Originally posted by Esoterica
I too would like to see a source of 70-year old vets being called up for duty. I mean, they couldn't do anything except work in an office back in the states anyway...

Actually, it may be true. A friend's dad was called up a year ago at the ripe old age of 59 to to do paper work in DC. Fact is, alot of recruits don't sign up for desk duty and his MOS is only truely important during times of war. Even at his old age and the cicumstances, he was proud to do it. I guess you could say he felt it was his duty. Men like him are few and far between now a days unfortunately.

It indeed is true. Scroll up a bit to one of my earlier posts, I've linked a story that discusses it.


For the lazy:

Here's one.

Or:

The one linked in above post




X

Originally posted by Trustnone
oh, thats funny hippy "it aint me" i do like CCR, but i am not about to grow my hair long and start burning flags. I dont swallow the whole anti-war thing whole if all people thought like you there would be no america. I guess some people would rather be submisive than risk fighting and dieing. Like william wallace said in Braveheart "Aye, fight and you may die, run and you'll live, at least awhile".

Speaking as a scotsman I find it quite insulting for you to use this since he is our national hero add to the fact your using it in completely diffrent context....if you had used it in say context to the american civil war then I'd be happy as can be.
Also whats wrong with being anti-war?
I hope you have the sense to edit that post and remove that william wallace qoute....

quit whining about a draft, you pusses. If you had to defend your home i doubt you would sit idly by while other people fight and die, at least i hope.

Theres a diffrence from defending your land and defending someone elses land, especially if they didnt ask you to defend it.

Originally posted by Xatnys
Trustnone,

What's with all the name calling and immaturity? I started to lose interest in your post at:

oh, thats funny hippy "it aint me"

Which while guttural, does show you got the reference I was making.

But to start calling people pusses and other "boyish creativity" made me lose interest in anything else you had to say.

Best of luck to you, friend. Get back to me should you realize that vomiting insults is not the best way to create a good discussion.

Thank you,

X

AND:

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by Trustnone
oh, thats funny hippy "it aint me" i do like CCR, but i am not about to grow my hair long and start burning flags. I dont swallow the whole anti-war thing whole if all people thought like you there would be no america. I guess some people would rather be submisive than risk fighting and dieing. Like william wallace said in Braveheart "Aye, fight and you may die, run and you'll live, at least awhile".

Speaking as a scotsman I find it quite insulting for you to use this since he is our national hero add to the fact your using it in completely diffrent context....if you had used it in say context to the american civil war then I'd be happy as can be.
Also whats wrong with being anti-war?
I hope you have the sense to edit that post and remove that william wallace qoute....

quit whining about a draft, you pusses. If you had to defend your home i doubt you would sit idly by while other people fight and die, at least i hope.

Theres a diffrence from defending your land and defending someone elses land, especially if they didnt ask you to defend it.

ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS:







Ouch.

Thank you "the seeker" but please refrain from makeing these kind of comments....esspecially since I was being quite deadly serios...

ATS Members Against Denying Ignorance

Forum: War On Terrorism

Topic: Parents Against Military Slavery

Question: What is the point of this thread, and why is it in this forum?

And what is the purpose of this avatar?



I thought ATS was supposed to be a discussion forum, not a clearinghouse for thinly-veiled propaganda, and that the War on Terrorism forum was for discussing the War on Terrorism, instead of spreading false rumors about U.S. conscription policies.

Perhaps I am mistaken.

Originally posted by Xatnys

Here ya go Esoterica:

Thank you.

That's a little different than what I expected. They asked him to go, and he could voluntarily refuse. He also has much-needed medical skills that are in short supply. This is a little different from holding off the Red Army at Berlin, where they were handing old men Panzerfausts and sending them into the streets. Which is what most people who don't read the article, just the blurbs of "70-year old called to service" were probably thinking.