"Sovereign Citizen" is an Oxymoron

Quite literally. How can one be sovereign and a citizen?

I think we need to break down and have a short reality check on what these things "mean". What is a "citizen"?
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Websters definition: Citizen;
a legally recognized subject or national of a state or commonwealth, either native or naturalized.

Etymology: Citizen;
In Ancient Rome, the Latin term civitas, according to Cicero in the time of the late Roman Republic, was the social body of the cives, or citizens, united by law. It is the law that binds them together, giving them responsibilities on the one hand and rights of citizenship on the other.
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So a "Citizen" is a person who is under the subjugation of a government. IE You are a CITIZEN of America, meaning you are under subjugation by the US Government. And as a citizen of a particular organization (government), you are entitled to the rights bestowed to you BY that ruling organization. When you say "I have a right to free speech, and its given by GOD", that's incorrect. You are entitled to whatever you've agreed to, by voluntarily playing along in the "citizenship" game.
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Webster definition: Subjugate;
bring under domination or control, especially by conquest.

Etymology: Subjugate;
from Jugum (yoke), Sub meaning under, quite literally "to bring under the yoke"
(to clarify, that's yoke, not yolk like a chicken egg)
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Before I even go on to try and emphasis our reality and "laws", allow me to let Ulysses S. Grant explain, in the context of the Confederate States succession:

When people are oppressed by their government, it is a natural right they enjoy to relieve themselves of the oppression, if they are strong enough, either by withdrawal from it, or by overthrowing it and substituting a government more acceptable. But any people or part of a people who resort to this remedy, stake their lives, their property, and every claim for protection given by citizenship--on the issue. Victory, or the conditions imposed by the conqueror--must be the result.

As Grant explained, we ALL have rights, enshrined by God, and some of them are listed in the constitution, some of them aren't. It is up to you to decide what your right is and as a result accept the consequences and responsibilities as such. But by removing yourself as a "citizen" of America, you forfeit the backing of your country to safeguard things YOU consider is your right.

Imagine it like this. You're on a soccer team, who is apart of a bigger league. Lets say the league passes a rule that you don't agree with. You have 2 options. Quit the team, no longer being able to play in their matches or attend their parties, or accept what has been dealt and continue playing the game by the rules they set out.

I think it is one of the most lazy occurrences to witness individuals calling themselves a victim on a board game they willingly put their piece on to play.

What is government, but merely a group of individuals with a monopoly on fear? There's no point in history where-by a paper came down from the heavens and proclaimed anyone in a position of leadership. There-fore, all "governments", "corporations", "organizations", ect, are just pigments in our imagination, like children playing cowboys and indians, but more bloody.

What would have separated the East Indian Trading Company from the United States of America? Not to harp on the particulars. What would thus serperate a mob of armed humans? Whats a nonbeliever to a mob, whats a mob to a king, whats a king to a god, whats a god to a nonbeliever?

I am the furthest thing from Communist, aligning myself with the natural order of the universe. But...there is one incredible thing that a Communist said that is so profound, so earth shattering, no one even considers his words..

Power...comes from the barrel of a gun. That is the ONLY reality of this universe that you need to know. Everything else is just imaginary conceptions, like a house of cards, waiting for a strong wind to pull it all down.

In closing. You cannot call yourself a "sovereign citizen", implying you are "sovereign" unless you A) renounce your citizenship of any country, and B) stop playing the citizen game. If you want to run a red light as a sovereign, and you're not a citizen, guess what....who has jurisdiction over you? But if you are a citizen, that's a contractual agreement.

Can't have your cake an eat it too. Either you're sovereign or a citizen. Choose.

Thank you all, and love you's.

ETA: I think its funny to add, imagine being so full of yourself, that you would tell a cop "not only am I a citizen, I'm a citizen with special privileges that can avoid traffic violations ect". Let that citizenship card go then, see what happens when you're in a state of conflict, and you, as a noncitizen/sovereign human, are not protected by the grace of daddy government.

"Sovereign" are people that live off-grid, in the middle of the woods who don't adhere to or are not under the subjugation there-of.

I think if you get rid of the oxy you have it right.
I remember a vid years back of an english guy arguing with the cops, he was driving a car with no tax or insurance on it and was trying to say that because he called it a carriage he did not need a licence , insurance or any of the other stuff. I think he got his carriage taken off him and was fined in the end.

If you ever watch police interactions such as Cops or CodeBlueCam, you'll realize that anyone claiming to be a sovereign citizen, is about to get arrested.

Sovereign citizens are the vegans of Karens.

originally posted by: SprocketUK
I think if you get rid of the oxy you have it right.
I remember a vid years back of an english guy arguing with the cops, he was driving a car with no tax or insurance on it and was trying to say that because he called it a carriage he did not need a licence , insurance or any of the other stuff. I think he got his carriage taken off him and was fined in the end.

Lol accurate. But I think what it really boils down to is those people are saying "hey, im sovereign, you dont rule over me....buuuut....i want all the luxuries that come with being a citizen."

Like I said, they want their cake and to eat it too.

originally posted by: TinfoilTophat
If you ever watch police interactions such as Cops or CodeBlueCam, you'll realize that anyone claiming to be a sovereign citizen, is about to get arrested.

Sovereign citizens are the vegans of Karens.

If those people renounced their citizenship, they'd actually have a valid argument. But they wouldn't...ever.

The Confederate states did, look what happened to them lmao

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

not that i subscribe to their line of bs, but have you ever thought the meaning is meant to be to the ruler of ones self?

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

It's all about nuance and details.

You're right, it's an oxymoron, and most (not all) of them are morons that come up with hair-brained schemes to avoid the law, that the rest of us "citizens" follow. Also, most of the laws that they challenge are laws that we "citizens" agree with. Like having a f'n license to drive and insurance for your vehicle.

I do believe in challenging BS laws, but this, isn't that...

originally posted by: TinfoilTophat
If you ever watch police interactions such as Cops or CodeBlueCam, you'll realize that anyone claiming to be a sovereign citizen, is about to get arrested.

Sovereign citizens are the vegans of Karens.

It's one of my new, favorite hobbies! It's an endless source of cringe-spectacle

originally posted by: BernnieJGato
a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

not that i subscribe to their line of bs, but have you ever thought the meaning is meant to be to the ruler of ones self?

Precisely, and that's what I explained.

Being a "citizen" means you're under subjugation of an entity. That removes the sovereign part. To be the "ruler of ones self" would require renunciation of citizenship

Problem is, people that call themselves sovereign citizens have absolutely no idea that (firstly) its an oxy moron, and (secondly) aren't willing to go to court and say "Your Honor, I no longer want to be a citizen".

a reply to: BernnieJGato

Makes sense if you're illiterate I guess.

Maybe a Sovereign Independent would be better to describe the derp?

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

My first introduction to the idea was a story told to me by an idiotic narcissist who was a friend of mine, but later planted drugs in my backpack and called the cops on me for telling him he showed off too much.

The interchange between he and I went like this:

Him-
"I was sitting alone at the coffee shop, and I heard a lawyer talking about these special "After-David Papers".

Me- "Oh, you mean 'affidavit papers', as in a written testimony to the court?"

Him- "No, no, these are called 'After David Papers'."

Me- "Hmm. Never heard of that, but I know an affidavit is a real thing. Who was David? Was this supposedly based on a Supreme Court Case?"

Him- "IDK. He didn't say, and I didn't specifically ask that, but these papers, supposedly you write out a letter that says you don't recognize yourself as a corporate entity, and sign it and send it to the GVT, and they can't..."

Me- "Okay, well you just described an affidavit. I grew up in and out of court-rooms in custody trials and have had to submit affidavits, and you didn't tell me who I send it off to. Does it have to be notarized? Also, did this guy SAY he was a lawyer, or did you just assume that?"

Him- "Well he was wearing a suit jacket."

originally posted by: TheValeyard
a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

My first introduction to the idea was a story told to me by an idiotic narcissist who was a friend of mine, but later planted drugs in my backpack and called the cops on me for telling him he showed off too much.

The interchange between he and I went like this:

Him-
"I was sitting alone at the coffee shop, and I heard a lawyer talking about these special "After-David Papers".

Me- "Oh, you mean 'affidavit papers, as in a written testimony to the court?"

Him- "No, no, these are called 'After David Papers'."

Me- "Hmm. Never heard of that, but I know an affidavit is a real thing. Who was David? Was this supposedly based on a Supreme Court Case?"

Him- "IDK, I he didn't say, and I didn't specifically ask that, but these papers, supposedly you write out a letter that says you don't recognize yourself as a corporate entity, and sign it and send it to the GVT, and they can't..."

Me- "Okay, well you just described an affidavit. I grew up in and out of court-rooms in custody trials, and you didn't tell me who the judge is I send it to. Does it have to be notarized? Also, did this guy SAY he was a lawyer, or did you just assume that?"

Him- "Well he was wearing a suit jacket."

Sounds like Jordan Maxwell was his counsel.

Capitis Diminutio Maxima, the idea that when your name is written in all capital letters:

The greatest, capitis deminutio maxima, involved the loss of liberty, citizenship, and family (e.g., being made a slave or prisoner of war). Capitis deminutio media consisted of a loss of citizenship and family without any forfeiture of personal liberty.

a reply to: TheValeyard


Its a good job I had already drunk all my cocoa! That was a proper chokker that one

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

Basically.
The guy in the coffee shop was just some random dude who had watched some YouTube videos,
but it was 1000% Jordan Maxwell's talking points.
Amazing how many people will latch onto something just because it uses words that sound official to them.

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

I thought this stopped being a thing like 10 years ago.

Are there really people still trying to push this stuff?

Its ironic these people think they are protecting themselves from the cops when they do the sovcit thing-but it just winds the cops ups every damn time,and they end up getting in more trouble than if they had just been polite.

People spewing the nonsense that the Sovereign Citizens do have been around for a long time. Go back into the 80-90s you find the Montana Freeman saying the same lies and even before that under other guises.

I think there are 2 types of Sovereign Citizens.

1- The outright criminals who say that crap just to throw a wrench in the works and be a general nuisance. They also like to forge fake deeds, checks, IDs, and even fake passports. They usually have long criminal histories.

2- People who are dumb enough to fall for that crap and some actually send money to the hoaxers. I can feel some sympathy for them, but not for long.

a reply to: watchitburn


Seems like it's mostly died out, but there are still a few.
Audit The Audit still has one on his channel every now and then,
but it's lot more rare.

I'll say if one's STILL a Sovereign Citizen now, they're significantly dumber than the first wave.

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

Never heard of that, is it the US pendant to freeman on the land?

a reply to: Terpene


The idea is that in the wake of the stock market crash and bank runs of the Great Depression, the GVT formed legal strawmen on behalf of every american citizen to leverage against the Federal Reserve Bank debt, and that if you write a letter stating you don't consent, they have to honor that.

They say that the fictional strawman of you is treated as a corporation, and is written in all caps, but the real you isn't, so anything that uses your name in all caps applies to your "Corporate strawman name", and since you're not a corporation, it doesn't apply to you.

Somehow they think that nullifies taxes and driver's liscenses, court fines and arrests, and makes the law not apply to them, as if they can live in a society and not be subject to its rules. There is some truth in it, sort of kind of, but not really.
What they critically miss is that they claim to not be part of society, but still try to live in it, and go against consensus.
Most of them don't have the moxxy and work ethic to go live in the wilderness, because they still want all the conveniences and services of the system.



It's kinda like someone in North Korea running around saying "I never voted for Kim Jung Un, so you have to let me do what I want", and then promptly getting shot by the DPRK police.