What to know about the 14th Amendment Trump disqualification trial in Colorado

Can anyone show me another analogous incident where an individuals civil liberties are denied without due process please?

originally posted by: matafuchs
FBI found no evidence of insurrection.

That's great news! You should notify the attorneys for the seditionists who were on the ground for the insurrection, most of them now serving around 20 years each.

They got sedition convictions, both the Oath Keepers and the Proud Boys.

The violent insurrection and sedition they are in prison for never happened! They're free to go!

a reply to: Mahogani

They argued that point. I remember reading it. That is the point.

There was no insurrection. A nice talking point but it never, ever happened. There was a large protest, and some of them did get well out of hand, and they should have been charged. Charged the same as the BLM and AntiFa protestors and gotten the same sentences.

FAFO.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: Mahogani

They argued that point. I remember reading it. That is the point.

There was no insurrection. A nice talking point but it never, ever happened. There was a large protest, and some of them did get well out of hand, and they should have been charged. Charged the same as the BLM and AntiFa protestors and gotten the same sentences.

FAFO.

They got the sentences commensurate to the crimes. Which is sedition. Sedition is 20 years.

Agreed. FAFO

Guys, we're not talking about some hypothetical here. These guys got convicted of sedition and are sitting in jail cells right now.

And sedition, by definition, is a violent insurrection.

sedition /sĭ-dĭsh′ən/
noun

- Conduct or language inciting rebellion against the authority of a state.
- Insurrection; rebellion.
- A factious commotion in a state; the stirring up of such a commotion; incitement of discontent against government and disturbance of public tranquillity, as by inflammatory speeches or writings, or acts or language tending to breach of public order: as, to stir up a sedition; a speech or pamphlet, abounding in sedition.

a reply to: Mahogani

How many cop cars were burned on 1/6? How many businesses were destroyed? Violence? They were there for a few hours and during most of that time nothing happened till they were gassed.

I remember months of sedition starting in 2015. Became years. Not one BLM leader was arrested for causing the Floyd Riots and dozens died and billions in damage. Why were the CHAZ cities not destroyed? No, instead an un-armed white woman is shot by a black Capitol Police Officer. If those colors were reversed DC would have been burnt to the ground.

But no. Less than 6 hours after they arrived the election was pushed through. Pence is a traitor to his nation. Not to Trump. The nation he served.

Like I said, the 14th Amendment does not mention the office of the president so there should be no argument.

a reply to: Mahogani

That's not how laws work.

18. USC 2383 10 years

18. USC 2384 20 years

Ironically, the speech carries a higher penalty than the action.....

All anyone needs to know is that these people are opposed to allowing our country's current VOTING system to work like it is supposed to and let the voters decide who to vote for.

That's all anyone needs to know.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Is the 14th Amendment not part of the system?

Eric Swalwell was eviscerated today. It was almost sad to watch but he is a total dirtbag so it could not happen to a better person.

a reply to: Mahogani

the the 14th shouldn't be applicable because a precedent has already been set for a person running for president convicted of Sedition, trump hasn't even been convicted of any crime of that sort.

here is his campaign button,



his name was Eugene Debs.

a reply to: BernnieJGato

Forgot about that dude. Funded the Socialist Party (or variations). There was some about him in a book I read talking about Woodrow Wilson.

originally posted by: BernnieJGato
a reply to: Mahogani
his name was Eugene Debs.

Different circumstances.

Eugene Debs was found guilty of sedition for speaking out against the draft and military recruitment.

Trump's case is regarding aiding an insurrection.

Fourteenth Amendment Equal Protection and Other Rights

Section 3 Disqualification from Holding Office

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Trump's case is very specific. The 14th, Sec 3 applies to Trump's actions -- that's why these cases have been allowed to continue despite numerous dismissal petitions. Eugene Debs' doesn't apply at all, he never aided an insurrection, he spoke out against the draft. He ran for president from out of prison and got some 3% of the vote.

The law has to determine what aided means though. Is egging people on and having your operatives connect with the people on the ground enough to show involvement? Is attempting to go to the Capitol but being stopped by the Secret Service enough to indicate intent? What about asking people directly to come to the Capitol that day and fight like hell?

That's all for the courts to determine.

a reply to: Mahogani

So then your assertion of sedition being equal to insurrection is false.

..by your own logic.

Can you show me any other circumstance where a civil liberty is removed without due process please?

Six Republican and unaffiliated Colorado voters filed the lawsuit in early September

When did Americans become so self absorbed?

Don't like a candidate for elected office? Don't vote for them.

a reply to: Mahogani


bullsh@@ sedition is sedition, debs was during war time if anything debs was more serious than anything trump said or did. when arrested debs was charged with 10 counts under both the Espionage (1917)and Sedition Acts(1918), when he went to trail he faced six, and convicted on three.

definition of sedition from websters,

: incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority

Deps was encouraging disruption of the function of the Federal government. just like they claimed trump did.

there is no comparison of what opinions about what trump did and what debs did during a war.

a reply to: BernnieJGato

We have this unique case of statute overlap. Which speaks to how far in the weeds we are legally speaking and the absurd amount of laws on the books.

When you can make illegal speech and then apply the actions of others to the speaker, we are in pretty dangerous territory. What further conflates this is the amount of intelligence assets leading up to and on the ground of J6.


Last but not least is the matter of the arbiters of Constitutional law, those 9 justices who opted to not do their duty.

If the 1 person who has the means, clout and stones to stand up to this level of tyrannical behavior can not receive justice, then what chance does the normal American have?

If a state can not have standing to sue another state, what chance does the normal American have?

a reply to: Mahogani

Where in that Amendment does it express POTUS? POTUS is not an officer. POTUS is not an elector that is who chooses the POTUS.

a reply to: BernnieJGato

Then if he is truly guilty of sedition and insurrection why not arrest him under the Patriot Act? Hold him as a threat. They won't because he is not.

Pathetic....