Israeli Ambassador to the UK says there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza

originally posted by: xtrozero1

originally posted by: PepperOnion

Well. You're wrong. The UN condemned "the Saudis", hence your point is moot.

And what did they do but leave the area unmonitored now, so how wrong am I? What did the UN do with China or Russia, or like 12 other places in the world? You all are screaming WAR CRIMES on Israel without having real facts and the UN does nothing anyways, are 100% useless.

Am I wrong or are you just naive?

I am sorry but there have been threads about the war crimes committed by Russia or China that had been purging Uyghurs. I remember I made one recently about China and the issue with the Uyghur population, which is an example of ethnic cleansing.

But that doesn't change the facts of the current situation.

originally posted by: Leviathan4

The attack at the hospital is still investigated and no conclusions have been reached. Each side blames each other and until there would be an independent investigation by experts we will never know.

Whatever...lol We all already know, you already know, but once again you prove my point. You push this above, but then say something like 4079 civilians killed as if it is true and 100% verified. Constantly say Israel has committed war crimes with nothing supporting it, even you links...geez

It's generally accepted that there are thousands of dead Palestinians and the number is quite high and will be increasing. They say 4,000 but it could way higher according to others.

Do you generally accept that 500 people didn't die, the hospital is still there and the rocket came from a short distance away with a blast looking like the fuel cell and not an actual bomb?

The thread is about the denialism offered by the Israeli Government and Ambassador in Britain that there is nothing much going on in Gaza and there in no humanitarian crisis when all sources say there is a humanitarian disaster with hundreds of thousands fleeing and have nowhere to go.

UN isn't a military power as you know.

So this is what she said

“Israel is in charge of the safety of the Israelis. Hamas is in charge of the safety of the Palestinians,” she added. “This is the time Hamas need to pay the price for its abuse, [for] killing innocent Israelis, and now preventing its own people to evacuate.”

This was also said 7 days ago and you are just now just picking it up and applying it to current events.

BTW I do believe there is today a humanitarian crisis that Hamas wilfully created and is feeding. Israel needs to be very careful and exact in their actions.

a reply to: BidenOperator

Even if it works though, I don't see how it wouldn't backfire, and cause moderate or non-Islamic Palestinians to hate Israel.
It's a bad move all around

I agree very strongly with this

originally posted by: xtrozero1

originally posted by: PepperOnion

Ever heard of the name Guterres or does the UN mean nothing to you?

The UN means nothing to me. Is 1000% political. Totally looks the other way all over the planet and picks and chooses what it politically wants.

You and others have zero idea what goes on in the world if you think this is some unique event. I call it the Baby Jessica phonomina. Back in 1987 baby Jessica fell down a well and took days to rescue her. The whole country was glued to the rescue and focused on it every minute. Before and after each year there are 10,000s of children in worst situations and no one cares, or even knows about it.

For example, the crown Prince of Saudi came out and made a speech on how evil Israel is in doing what they are doing. Have you heard of the war between Yemen and Saudi? Maybe, maybe not...

Well, the Saudis kill everyone in their air strikes, and that is coming from me who has personnally seen it. 50 civilians standing around and the Saudis think there are some fighters in the mix...they all die. They kill even when they don't think about it and just feel like doing it. 400k killed with many children, 30 million starving at some level. China comes out too and so what happened to the 2.5 million they put into reeducation camps? No one is talking about that...

It is all political and there are too many people stupid enough to fall for it.

I agree Saudi have been actively bombing civillians in Yemen, the UN have condemned it and the current mass famine but it doesn't make the news as under messed up Western news values it takes 1million dead in Africa to equal one dead in a Western Capital.

The African World War has claimed more lives than all wars in the 20th century combined but rarely gets a mention in news as people don't care about Africans and the war means we get cheap electronics.

The famine in Yemen is so bad children have litterally been eating their own limbs due to hunger over the last five years - yet it barely gets a mention in the news. I advise against watching the few investigative reports there have been from there as the footage is beyond sickening and know a number of seasoned journalists who had to be sectioned after reporting from there.

Still doesn't change the fact there's a major humanitarian crisis in Gaza (as there has been for decades) but Western audiences generally don't consider mass murder a newsworthy event - one of the main reasons the Israel-Gaza conflict recieved so much attention is Israel is the only Western country in the vacinity and higher standards are expected.

Weapons exports to Saudi were officially banned from the UK because of this and them actively being sold to ISIS/Al Que'da a few years back (US vetoed the same bill launched by Bernie Sanders) but investigations found we were abusing loopholes and still exporting 80%ish of weapons prior to the ban; knowing a large portion would land in Yemeni Al Qu'eda hands.

originally posted by: Leviathan4

But that doesn't change the facts of the current situation.

So we will just move forward status quo, it's not about what you did, it's about what the UN does and doesn't do. Yemen is on a scale, as I said, 100 times worse than anything that will happen in Gaza, and that is just one example of many that are the same.

But here we are hating on Israel as come common event everytime.

originally posted by: xtrozero1

originally posted by: Leviathan4

The attack at the hospital is still investigated and no conclusions have been reached. Each side blames each other and until there would be an independent investigation by experts we will never know.

Whatever...lol We all already know, you already know, but once again you prove my point. You push this above, but then say something like 4079 civilians killed as if it is true and 100% verified. Constantly say Israel has committed war crimes with nothing supporting it, even you links...geez

It's generally accepted that there are thousands of dead Palestinians and the number is quite high and will be increasing. They say 4,000 but it could way higher according to others.

Do you generally accept that 500 people didn't die, the hospital is still there and the rocket came from a short distance away with a blast looking like the fuel cell and not an actual bomb?

The thread is about the denialism offered by the Israeli Government and Ambassador in Britain that there is nothing much going on in Gaza and there in no humanitarian crisis when all sources say there is a humanitarian disaster with hundreds of thousands fleeing and have nowhere to go.

UN isn't a military power as you know.

So this is what she said

“Israel is in charge of the safety of the Israelis. Hamas is in charge of the safety of the Palestinians,” she added. “This is the time Hamas need to pay the price for its abuse, [for] killing innocent Israelis, and now preventing its own people to evacuate.”

This was also said 7 days ago and you are just now just picking it up and applying it to current events.

BTW I do believe there is today a humanitarian crisis that Hamas wilfully created and is feeding. Israel needs to be very careful and exact in their actions.

This is the number given.
I said we may never know the exact numbers but everyone admits there are thousands of deaths in Gaza and most are civilians. I gave the number above that comes from the UN as I cannot make up my own numbers....

And yes we need to say the truth and not cover it up.

War crimes have been answered with war crimes.
And it's not just a personal opinion

apnews.com...

Experts say Hamas and Israel are committing war crimes in their fight

originally posted by: HeadMod

Weapons exports to Saudi were officially banned from the UK because of this and them actively being sold to ISIS/Al Que'da a few years back (US vetoed the same bill launched by Bernie Sanders) but investigations found we were abusing loopholes and still exporting 80%ish of weapons prior to the ban; knowing a large portion would land in Yemeni Al Qu'eda hands.

The problem is we never know who are the good guys and who are the bad guys, my assumption is they are all bad and Israel is about as close to what could be a good guy as that place would possibly come up with while not having a white hat, maybe grey as other places are like Black shade 3.0

I have said many times that Israel does not follow the same rules of engagement as America does, but they are still leaps and bounds ahead of any other ME country there. So pick and choose who you think is bad and tomorrow it will change again. The deal with Israel is there is a huge amount of Jewish hate in the world so there is a double standard placed on them.

originally posted by: xtrozero1

originally posted by: Leviathan4

But that doesn't change the facts of the current situation.

So we will just move forward status quo, it's not about what you did, it's about what the UN does and doesn't do. Yemen is on a scale, as I said, 100 times worse than anything that will happen in Gaza, and that is just one example of many that are the same.

But here we are hating on Israel as come common event everytime.

The hate of Israel is a common strawman argument. And it is provided when there are no valid arguments from those who want the war to continue. There is also the card of antisemitism that it is used but none of these work well.

The support for ceasefire and for not killing innocent civilians cannot be equated with support for Hamas or with hate for Israel.

originally posted by: Leviathan4

War crimes have been answered with war crimes.
And it's not just a personal opinion

Your logic is so faulty. "that's the number given" "we don't know 100%" and so on and so forth as you apply one to something that agrees with you and the other to something you disagree with. Right now we only know of one side committing war crimes, and you can post 100 times more of your silly opinion piece, but it is not factually true, opinions are not facts.

Enough said since you are back to your repeating narrative.

originally posted by: xtrozero1

originally posted by: Leviathan4

War crimes have been answered with war crimes.
And it's not just a personal opinion

Your logic is so faulty. "that's the number given" "we don't know 100%" and so on and so forth as you apply one to something that agrees with you and the other to something you disagree with. Right now we only know of one side committing war crimes, and you can post 100 times more of your silly opinion piece, but it is not factually true, opinions are not facts.

Enough said since you are back to your repeating narrative.

There is number of sources arguing precisely that war crimes are committed by both sides. It's not just my personal opinion. You can reject it if you wish but I can see what's happening.

The opinion by human right lawyers and politicians or the UN are not silly opinion pieces. One can argue that your opinion is silly and not theirs. But there is a lot of evidence on the types of crimes that have been committed.

But again the Israeli Ambassador seems to think there is no humanitarian crisis at all....

a reply to: HeadMod

Still doesn't change the fact there's a major humanitarian crisis in Gaza (as there has been for decades) but Western audiences generally don't consider mass murder a newsworthy event - one of the main reasons the Israel-Gaza conflict received so much attention is Israel is the only Western country in the vicinity and higher standards are expected

So true!

originally posted by: Leviathan4

But again the Israeli Ambassador seems to think there is no humanitarian crisis at all....

7+ days ago, you asked her today?

That is my point...you Cherry Pick your narratives, and if you were not biased you would not be doing that.

originally posted by: xtrozero1

originally posted by: HeadMod

Weapons exports to Saudi were officially banned from the UK because of this and them actively being sold to ISIS/Al Que'da a few years back (US vetoed the same bill launched by Bernie Sanders) but investigations found we were abusing loopholes and still exporting 80%ish of weapons prior to the ban; knowing a large portion would land in Yemeni Al Qu'eda hands.

The problem is we never know who are the good guys and who are the bad guys, my assumption is they are all bad and Israel is about as close to what could be a good guy as that place would possibly come up with while not having a white hat, maybe grey as other places are like Black shade 3.0

I have said many times that Israel does not follow the same rules of engagement as America does, but they are still leaps and bounds ahead of any other ME country there. So pick and choose who you think is bad and tomorrow it will change again. The deal with Israel is there is a huge amount of Jewish hate in the world so there is a double standard placed on them.

Even taking that all into account, so far this operation has stood out to me as Israel doing everything to minimise civilian casualties - in prior Israel-Hamas conflicts the reported civillian death toll would be a lot higher.

I've not heard a single account of them bombing an area without prior warnings to civillians and only a handful of journalists have been killed (mainly Hamas propaganda outlets) compared to the usual intentional bombing of Press towers without warning. It even seems like they've actively climbed down on bombing Al-Quds hospital (known to house Hamas fighters) due to civillians being treated there and Hamas not allowing the 12,000 civilians sheltering there to leave.

There's thankfully no comparison in intensity of the bombings to the US-led coalition 'Shock and Awe' campaign in Baghdad to the currennt bombing of Gaza - I've found myself having to fastforward hours of live youtube broadcasts to find strikes compared to footage of carpet bombing Baghdad or Kabul.

I think they have every right to wipe out Hamas and have been very reserved so far considering it's one of the most densely populated places in the world. Now a refugee coridor into Egypt has been openned they can move in and wipe out Hamas.

originally posted by: HeadMod

Even taking that all into account, so far this operation has stood out to me as Israel doing everything to minimise civilian casualties - in prior Israel-Hamas conflicts the reported civillian death toll would be a lot higher.

That is one of the problems when people look at this one-sided. The narrative is IF 4,000 people have been killed then that 100% means Israel is targeting civilians. The side they do not look at is that if Israel actually was on a campaign to kill civilians then they would not be doing it at an average of 2 per airstrike, or what would be zero in many cases and a few in others. They would be killing 100s and so that 4,000 would be more like 200,000.

We also have the problem of not really knowing who is killing civilians with each event as both sides are and the numbers are all getting tacked on to only Israel. The fake news that 500 were killed at the hospital is now well under 100, or about 100 or so total dead and wounded, and it wasn't Israel. We also have the 70 killed on a double flatbed truck trying to get to a safe area that wasn't attacked in an airstrike so who was there that could do a ground strike and didn't want civilians leaving? How much of all this and other cases account towards the 4,000?

There's thankfully no comparison in intensity of the bombings to the US-led coalition 'Shock and Awe' campaign in Baghdad to the currennt bombing of Gaza - I've found myself having to fastforward hours of live youtube broadcasts to find strikes compared to footage of carpet bombing Baghdad or Kabul.

Still all military targets, but they were also BIG ASS bombs with no warning...War is hell no matter how it is done. Israel gives warnings, does 24/48 standdown so people can get away etc. etc. and they are war crimes.. How about Russia's 1.5 million 155 artillery just indiscriminately launched at towns? We want to talk about targeting civilians that is what it actually looks like, not Israel.

originally posted by: xtrozero1

originally posted by: Leviathan4

But again the Israeli Ambassador seems to think there is no humanitarian crisis at all....

7+ days ago, you asked her today?

That is my point...you Cherry Pick your narratives, and if you were not biased you would not be doing that.

Probably the same as it was 7 days ago.

This is not a serious argument by the way.
You actually claim that because the Israeli Ambassador said this nonsense 7 days ago on the 15th of October somehow her view has changed now.

That's a desperate attempt and you got a star for your post.

You didn't realise that yesterday the TimesofIsrael featured a spokesman from the IDF who said the same and it's in my OP but you haven't read it.

Although your argument is hilarious here is the link again


www.timesofisrael.com...

21st October 2023

IDF says there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza

An Israeli security official says there is currently no humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip, as the military continues to order Palestinians to move south.

According to the Israel Defense Forces, some 700,000 people of the estimated 1.1 million population of northern Gaza have evacuated south in recent days.

“As of now, I can tell you that there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza. There are hardships in moving people within days to the south of the Gaza Strip, but the population is getting along,” the official tells reporters.

So it seems this is a Government Policy

originally posted by: Leviathan4

]“As of now, I can tell you that there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza. There are hardships in moving people within days to the south of the Gaza Strip, but the population is getting along,” the official tells reporters."

So it seems this is a Government Policy

Is this statement untrue? Are people dying of hunger? Does Israel, and even you, want the general population out of the war zone?

a reply to: xtrozero1

They could evacuate people into Israel right away, so what's the holdup?

originally posted by: xtrozero1

originally posted by: Leviathan4

]“As of now, I can tell you that there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza. There are hardships in moving people within days to the south of the Gaza Strip, but the population is getting along,” the official tells reporters."

So it seems this is a Government Policy

Is this statement untrue? Are people dying of hunger? Does Israel, and even you, want the general population out of the war zone?

- Use of White Phosphorus is a crime. That is obviously one of the reasons we have high civilian causalities.
- Cutting off Gaza’s electricity, water, food, and fuel supplies, creating a threat of imminent humanitarian catastrophe is a crime.
- Killing children no matter what the number is, which is probably very high is a crime.
- Murder of journalists is a crime.
- Mass forcible displacement to millions of civilians is a crime

That doesn't mean Hamas are angels. They're not.

originally posted by: PepperOnion
a reply to: xtrozero1

They could evacuate people into Israel right away, so what's the holdup?

Never invite the enemy in.

originally posted by: xtrozero1

originally posted by: Leviathan4

]“As of now, I can tell you that there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza. There are hardships in moving people within days to the south of the Gaza Strip, but the population is getting along,” the official tells reporters."

So it seems this is a Government Policy

Is this statement untrue? Are people dying of hunger? Does Israel, and even you, want the general population out of the war zone?

Your moving the goalposts quite a lot.

Remember what you said earlier?
You tried to argue that the Israeli Ambassador to Britain who said there is no humanitarian crisis may have a different view now, without providing any evidence.

I told you this is a Government-State Policy where Israel denies there is a humanitarian crisis.

www.timesofisrael.com...


IDF says there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza

An Israeli security official says there is currently no humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip, as the military continues to order Palestinians to move south.

Do you see the State Policy?! It's rather obvious.

Now you dangerously moving the goalposts asking me what is meant by 'humanitarian crisis'

The only thing you haven't asked is what a woman is...