Moloch/Owl?

Originally posted by seridium
do these symbols generate some kind of power for the people portraying these occultic images is that why they put them on the dollar bill?

That's the whole point - I don't think they were 'put there'.

from a masonic image taken from the headquarters of Freemasonry in Queensland, Australia showing prominently the Masonic eye in the pyramid.

Look like a triangle to me. Although it's so indistinct its very hard to see anything inside it. If there is something inside, it's as likely to be an eye as anything else, which as I have already said, is a masonic symbol.

All I can say is seridium is right and the rest of you are in denial.
Lord Rothchild (international banker) had the Israeli Supreme Court building hand built. A banker building a Judiciary Building covered in Masonic symbols!
Nope no connection what so ever nope all a mere coincidence! WAKE UP.
www.planetquo.com...
Seridium gets a way above top secret vote.

Originally posted by BattleofBatoche
All I can say is seridium is right and the rest of you are in denial.
Lord Rothchild (international banker) had the Israeli Supreme Court building hand built. A banker building a Judiciary Building covered in Masonic symbols!
Nope no connection what so ever nope all a mere coincidence! WAKE UP.
www.planetquo.com...
Seridium gets a way above top secret vote.

Dont even get me started on the Rothchilds. Do everyone a favor and run an ATS search on them. As for the Masonic symbols on a bank, so what? Masonic symbology is everywhere. No one is trying to hide it. The Masons go back to great stone workers. I would expect their buildings to carry the symbology. My local StarBucks has a large coffee cup embedded in the wall by the door. They sell coffee. I'd be thrown off if I went inside and it was a store for women's undergarments.

I don't want to jump in here to deep because I am not prepared with facts or links to make a case, but I notice that Trinityman and EdenKaia seem to be more personally defending Masons than Seridium is defending his position. I have seen throughout the years much more evidence supporting Seridium's thoughts and I say to keep studying and exploring and sharing your information. None of us have all the facts and to deny the symbology is ridiculous. The eye in the pyramid is way way older than the dollar bill as are the ROOTS of Freemasonary, even if called something else previously.
I am putting myself out there to be slammed but c'mon, don't be so hard on this guy with your nay saying.

I felt belittled by some people but I think I will stand by what I have stated on symbolism and the dollar bill and such it is not false that is for sure.
And yes if you delve more into it then just basic freemasonry there is some kind of secret being passed around for a purpose of control.
I mean look at USA and Canada And Britain 3 coutries all ruled by the means of order out of chaos.
This is there order this is there way of control and it works damn good.
USA pulls our strings now and bilderbergers infiltrated our goverment over the last 10 years or so and now look how the USA and isreal are licking hoops (bumholes) the USA funds Israel to the max, more then any other country out there. Last I checked they had funded them over 100 BILLION US dollars, and this in the USA's eyes was for humanitarian aid, what did Israel use it for, to buy weapons from the USA. Go look up how much funding the USA gives on humanitarian needs to the Palistinian people, or any other 3rd world country that actually needs aid, it is paultry compared to what they give Israel.
America=Israel
Bush got rid of Saddam cause he want's 5 dollar/gallon Oil. (Saddam was selling his Oil too cheap to pay off his debt with other countries)
Once Bush got ahold of the Iraq Oil, he shut down the refinery's...**Bottle Neck** the system and charge more for fuel, take all your money(trashing the middle class) and make you all slaves to them. Gas goes up, so does everything else, everything that is takes fuel to deliver to the stores. Poor people are easy too control.
you see this is the grand scheme of things to create power for themselves not us not the freemasons just the chosen few and they know who they are.

why do you think they went after saddam he was a major threat of isreal and now there plan can go ahead and finally see something become of their funds to isreal.
And mybe get the temple built soon? who knows
And please remember something when the USA was formed it was by masons.
when hitler tricked the people of germany to hate jews he had help from the Third Reich the Thule society it was all part of the ancient order of death. The tiricks of the trade Brainwashing masses of children and putting fear into adults so no one questioned anything that the nazis would do, the weak only followed.
There is so much to cover but I dont have the knowledge infront of me at this time so i will end here, And I do thank trnityman & EdenKaia you guys have great knowledge but I still think you don't see it the way many do but that is ok, If you were christian you would understand, at least I hope you would?

On a side note
In my personal opinion
orginized religion is the reason for and the cause of ALL wars ever.
God is the reason people will train to kill strangers.
God is the reason we need the bomb AND it is also the reason Korea wants it.
God goes into every battle ever on both sides!
God is the reason we need the best tanks and also the reason russia needs the best tanks.
God is the reason isreal is fighting and the same reason america is in iraq.
God is the reason iraq's people will keep killing yanks or throw rocks thank god.
People should realize on thing there is a god, jesus taught us this.
But in this day and age God is imaginary he does not exist in our real world no one has talked with him seen him or felt his pressence in a real way.
So these people should realize they fight for an imaginary purpose and it is just that death is unknown. other than e=mc2 meaning when we die I do know that I will travel at the speed of light!

Originally posted by interestedalways
I am putting myself out there to be slammed but c'mon, don't be so hard on this guy with your nay saying.

No interestedalways, your welcome here and no slamming (or dunking). Actually I thought I was being quite gentle with seridium considering the high level of factual inaccuracies.

Call me a nay-sayer if you will, but I say no to inaccuracies, no to ignorance and no to copying and pasting large tracts from other websites without any attempt at a discussion.

But thats just me.

Originally posted by seridium
And yes if you delve more into it then just basic freemasonry there is some kind of secret being passed around for a purpose of control.

This is entirely untrue and there is not a shred of evidence to support this hypothesis. Too many people are scuttling off into corners and making 2 and 2 add up to 5.

Why do you have it in for freemasonry? I would have thought it was obvious that an organization committed to the values of integrity, honesty and truth would be entirely the wrong group for a secret deceitful NWO-style core bent on control. There is no logic to any of this.

*goes off into a corner, gibbering manically*

I just noticed this...

Originally posted by seridium
If you were christian you would understand, at least I hope you would?

I'm proud to be a Christian. Jesus Christ is at the center of my life, and although regretfully I probably embarrass him on a daily basis at least I try.

I don't understand why my faith would assist me in understanding your post though?

Originally posted by interestedalways
I don't want to jump in here to deep because I am not prepared with facts or links to make a case, but I notice that Trinityman and EdenKaia seem to be more personally defending Masons than Seridium is defending his position.

I got a big kick out of this. The posts that present clear fact and sources to prove them are the ones getting too personal on the issue, whereas the extremely drawn out rants are the more abstract and detached position. Priceless.

I have seen throughout the years much more evidence supporting Seridium's thoughts and I say to keep studying and exploring and sharing your information. None of us have all the facts and to deny the symbology is ridiculous.

Frankly, I haven't. Perhaps you've just had a better opportunity or more luck than I. As far as saying that you aren't prepared to defend your posistion with fact, well, this is a pretty bold statement to make considering that. There are two posters here who have presented solid facts to the contrary of your "symbology". Where is this evidence you've found over the years? Honestly, that's all we've been asking for since post one! I'm still waiting on it! Does this evidence of proof really exist, or is it just some convenient fallback?

The eye in the pyramid is way way older than the dollar bill as are the ROOTS of Freemasonary, even if called something else previously.

Granted. The question was not the origin of the All Seeing Eye, but its use by Freemasons and its appearance on American currency. Freemasons did not adopt the symbol until fourteen years after the debut on the Seal of the United States. This is fact people. Look it up if you choose to blow off the links I posted.

Originally posted by seridium
I felt belittled by some people but I think I will stand by what I have stated on symbolism and the dollar bill and such it is not false that is for sure.

I love how support arrives and you revert. Classic. Well, if you wish to stick to your guns in light of the heavy evidence provided, by all means, do so. Keep in mind, however, that in all this posting, you have yet to provide a single clue that is factual to support your material. Our posts in answer to you are filled with links and passages. That's all that we can do.

And please remember something when the USA was formed it was by masons.

One final time. NO IT WAS NOT. Freemasons were involved in the Revolution and among the founding fathers, that does not mean that the United States were a canvas on which they would paint the NWO. Most of those men weren't Masons to begin with!

but I still think you don't see it the way many do but that is ok, If you were christian you would understand, at least I hope you would?

First of all Seridium, I think you'd be surprised to find that it is actually your views that are in the minority. An second, I find your Christian jibe quite offensive. I am highly devout in my Christian faith, but as TM already said, this has nothing whatsoever to do with understanding your points. I would hope that you could actually provide some sort of tangible evidence to support your wild claims, but then, I have asked for that repeatedly and have realized that it is just not going to happen. I must say, however, that it paints you in a poor light once again to make a ridiculous claim that my Christianity would automatically give me an understanding of an equally ridiculous claim. I understand what you are saying perfectly. It just plain isn't true. I've proven that, and you can go back and reference that fact. Find something that supports your claims, leave religion alone. "It is a weak minded man with a weaker heart that uses religion as a tool."

Also, I believe that if you drank a Pepsi in the past two days then you will understand, at least I hope you would?.

Since we seem to have turned this into a discussion of Freemasonary rather than Molech the Owl, then what about the really old story of King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba and the Master builder (Hiram?) and trying to cast the gold around the temple. If I remember correctly there was some kind of sabatoge regarding the molten gold and the Master Builder went to see his ancestor Tubal Cain and he told him how to finish the Temple. Didn't he return from his journey from the underworld with a golden Triangle and also a scale or compass? Isn't this the beginning of clues to the origin of Freemasonary?

Maybe I am too niave and operate on intuitional understanding rather than facts. Actually I am impressed at how people are able to keep track of links and sites they visit. I pass through and the origins are lost forever. If it wasn't for those of you passing on these links, etc. I would not have found many of the places I have visited and learned from. I respect your talents. In frequenting so many sources of information on the web I also believe I could make a case for just about anything I attempted to. Seriously. Facts themselves are usually open to interpetation and perception and trust to the sources.

Thanks TM for the kind remark you made to me.

After all we are here to DENY IGNORANCE!!!

ok here it is again from the top of my brain to the strike of a Key. First of all where have I stated that the Freemasons were a canvas on which they would paint the NWO?
The masons are just part of the grande scheme of deciept and control do you realise we live in a world with altered timelines and secret agendas from every angle possible. We live in a world with mass confusion complete global ignorance, TV news and media are propaganda fear is installed for means of control.
Freemasons in every single lodge they have a charitable donations board for everyone to see plastered on the wall, talk about a great front for a backbone of deciept and its all there all teh evidence you ever need, go over the 33 degree initiation ceremony that you would work so hard for and tell me when it is allover if you are confused or not? Then your subconcious will start to know the real behind the lie.

I talk about this stuff because no one gets my point!
The Freemasons began as members of craft guilds who united into lodges in England in the early 1700's. They stressed religious tolerance, the equality of their male peers, and the themes of classic liberalism and the Enlightenment. Today they are a worldwide fraternal order that still educates its members about philosophical ideas, and engages in harmless rituals, but also offers networking for business and political leaders, and carries out charitable activities.

But in all reality they are a cult. yeah thats right a cult.
Cult definition
A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
The followers of such a religion or sect.
A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.

Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
The object of such devotion.
An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.



Freemasonry is a pagan cult that pretends to embrace all religions in order to negate them all. It says there is no God but man. Man not God is the measure of all things.
Why wear a apron with hidden meaning behind it?
Why use symbolism so much in their work?

Secret symbols & and there cosmic powers

Like the ones on the US dollar bill for example are part of the cosmic language by which spiritual being s make themselves understood to one
another.The communication between spiritual beings, no matter of what ever
hierarchy, is effected intellectually by means of the so-called metaphorical
langauge. The thoughts are transferred by symbolic images acoustically,
telepathically and by emotion -- from being to being.The langauge or the
spiritual beings, being imperfect, therfore is only a partial aspect of the
cosmic language. It is magically speaking, not so eeffective since the
beings do not make use of quadripolarity when making themselves understood.
The cosmic language is the most perfect language that exists, for it is
analogous to the laws, that is. it expresses the universal laws in their
cause and effect. The cosmic language is therefore the great fiat "it shall
be"
In many writings of the freemasons and the secret societies, the lost key, the lost word of God is much discussed.Rituals that were practised by these societies are now largely just imitated traditionally without their deeper
sense in relation to the cosmic laws being understood. therefore the rituals
which , in the days of yore had been introduced and practiced by genuine
initiates are, naturally quite ineffective today since the key to their
correct interpretations has been lost.

Why be initiated into the secret mysteries?
why have cult like ceremony's?
Why are you under of a oath of secrecy, punished by death?
Why in scotland do you need to be mason to be a judge?
Why have a 33 degree ceremony in washing DC where you have to choose from which path you will lead your life through.
The path of God. wide openness with yourself and others
Or the path of man(lucifer) the secret path of the mysteries the path of leading 2 seperate lives?
And from reading this book(Jim Shaws book The Deadly Deception, pp. 99 - 109) and from this website clip of the book

A Freemasons 33 degree initiation

And I do realize people have their very own thoughts and ideas and most masons are GOOD people, I am not saying that they are all evil people.
But as I said in another post. The vast majority of Freemasons worldwide never procede past the 3rd degree, or Blue Degrees (1st, 2nd or 3rd). The first three degrees are referred to
as Symbolic Masonry.

Therefore the majority of Freemasons never know what kind of organization
they are really apart of.


[edit on 16-7-2006 by seridium]

Notice how so many prominent people that molded the way the USA is today were infact freemasons, hrmm I wonder why?


The following is a well researched compilation of proven freemasons:
(a) 16 presidents of the United States of America:
George Washington (1732-1799) 1st.
initiated 11/4/1752 Fredericksburg Lodge No. 4, Virginia
James Monroe (1758-1831) 5th.
initiated 11/9/1775 Williamsburgh Lodge No. 6, Virginia
Andrew Jackson (1767-1845) 7th.
member Harmony Lodge No. 1; Grand Master 1822-24, Tennessee
James Knox Polk (1795-1849) 11th.
raised 9/4/1820 Columbia Lodge No. 31, Tennessee
David Rice Atchison (1807-1886)
"Ex-officio president for one day" : March 4, 1849
member: Platte Lodge No. 56, Mo.
James Buchanan (1791-1868) 15th.
raised 1/24/1817 Lodge No. 43, Pennsylvania
Andrew Johnson (1808-1875) 17th.
initiated 1851, Greenville Lodge No. 119, Tennessee
James Abram Garfield , 20th.
raised 11/22/1864, Magnolia Lodge No. 20, Ohio
William McKinley (1843-1901) 25th.
raised 4/3/1865, Hiram Lodge No. 21, Virginia
Theodore Roosevelt (1858-1919) 26th.
raised 4/24/1901, Matinecock Lodge No. 806, Oyster Bay
William Howard Taft (1857-1930) 27th.
made a mason at sight 2/18/1909.
affiliated Kilwinning Lodge 356, Ohio
Warren Gamaliel Harding (1865-1923) 29th.
raised 8/13/1920, Marion Lodge No. 70, Ohio
Franklin Delano Roosevelt (1882-1945) 32nd.
raised Nov. 28. 1911,
Harry S Truman (1884-1972) 33rd.
initiated 02/09/1909, Belton Lodge No. 450
raised 03/18/1909, Belton Lodge No. 450
Lyndon Baines Johnson (EA) (1908-1973) 36th.
initiated October 30, 1937
Gerald Ford
raised May 18, 1951, Columbia Lodge No.3
Grand Lodge of Washington, D.C. courtesy to Malta Lodge No 465 Grand Lodge Michigan, Grand Rapids
(b) Signators to the USA Declaration of Independence (1776):
8 freemasons out of 56 total.
Benjamin Franklin
Deputy Grand Master, Pennsylvania
John Hancock
St. Andrew's Lodge, Boston
Joseph Hewes
visited Unanimity Lodge No. 7, Edenton, North Carolina: Dec. 27 1776
William Hooper
Hanover Lodge, Masonborough, North Carolina
Robert Treat Payne
attended Grand Lodge, Roxbury, Mass.: June 26, 1759
Richard Stockton
charter Master, St. John's Lodge, Princeton, New Jersey: 1765
George Walton
Solomon's Lodge No. 1, Savannah, Georgia
William Whipple
St. John's Lodge, Portsmouth, New Hampshire
(c) Signators to the USA Constitution (1789):
Out of the 55 delegates, 9 signers were confirmed freemasons; 5 non-signing delegates were freemasons; 6 later became freemasons; 13 delegates have been claimed as freemasons on apparently insufficient evidence; 22 were known not to be freemasons.
9 freemasons out of 40 total.
George Washington
raised: Fredericksburg Lodge, Virginia: 1753
Benjamin Franklin
Lodge at Tun Tavern, Philadelphia: 1731
Rufus King
St John's Lodge, Newburyport, Massachusetts
John Blair
First Grand Master, Virginia. Williamsburg Lodge No. 6
Gunning Bedford Jr.
First Grand Master, Delaware. Lodge 14, Christina Ferry, Delaware.
John Dickinson
Lodge No. 18, Dover, Delaware: 1780
Jacob Broom
Lodge No. 14, Christina Ferry, Delaware, 1780
David Brearley
First Grand Master, New Jersey: 1787. Military Lodge No. 19
Daniel Caroll
St. John's Lodge No. 20, Maryland: 1781, Lodge No. 16, Baltimore
Later became freemasons:
Jonathan Dayton
Temple No. 1, Elizabeth Town, New Jersey
James McHenry
Spiritual Lodge No. 23, Baltimore, Maryland: 1806
William Patterson
Trinity Lodge No. 5, New Jersey: 1788. Berkshire Lodge No. 5, Stockbridge, Ma
Insufficient evidence:
Nicholas Gilman

"Either he or his father of the same name was initiated in St. John's Lodge No. 1 at Portsmouth, New Hampshire, March 20, 1777."*
Roger Sherman (1721-1793)
Signed "Declaration of Independence," "Articles of Association." "Articles of Confederation," and Federal "Constitution." Although a masonic apron ascribed to him is in the archive collection of Yale University, there is no record of his masonic association.
(d) Signators of the USA Articles of Confederation (1781):
10 freemasons out of (?) total.

Benedict Arnold
affiliated Hiram Lodge No. 1. New Haven, Connecticut: 1765/04/18 [AQC vol 80, pp. 120-2.]
(e) Generals in George Washington's Continental Army:
31 freemasons out of 63 total.
Nicholas Herkimer (1715-1777), St. Patrick's Lodge, Johnstown, New York
Morgan Lewis, Grand Master, New York
Jacob Morton, Grand Master, New York
Israel Putnam (1718-1790)
Rufus Putnam (1738-1824), Master, American Union Lodge
Baron von Steuben (1730-1794), Trinity Lodge No. 10, New York City
John Sullivan (1740-1796), Grand Master, New Hampshire
Joseph Warren (1741-1775), Massachusetts Provincial Grand Master
David Wooster (1710-177), Master, Hiram Lodge No. 1, Connecticut
(Note Gould's History of Freemasonry mistakenly repeated C. W. Moore's claim that all but Benedict Arnold were freemasons. vol. iv p 24 1885)
(f) Presidents of the Continental Congresses (1774-89):
4 freemasons out of (?) total.
Peyton Randolph of Virginia (1st)
John Hancock of Massachusetts (3rd )
Henry Laurens of South Carolina
Arthur St. Clair of Pennsylvania.
(g) Governors of the thirteen colonies during the Continental Congress:
10 freemasons out of 30 total.
(h) Chief Justices of the United States:
Oliver Ellsworth
John Marshall (also Grand Master of Virginia)
William Howard Taft
Frederick M. Vinson
Earl Warren (also Grand Master of California.)

Originally posted by interestedalways
Since we seem to have turned this into a discussion of Freemasonary rather than Molech the Owl, then what about the really old story of King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba and the Master builder (Hiram?) and trying to cast the gold around the temple.

This rings a bell, and may be a story enacted in one of the side orders of which I am not a member. However most, if not all of the stories found in freemasonry and its extended family are Bible stories taken from the Old Testament, and perhaps embellished (in a way that modern Hollwood might recognize) to emphasize the underlying message.

The core stories of Craft freemasonry are certainly taken from the Bible and refer to the building of King Solomons Temple. The analogy is that we are building a Temple of ourselves, and by using the symbolic meanings of the same tools the operative masons used, we can construct our temple true, to the honor and glory of the Most High.

However you are quite right, this is well off topic, and not really very conspiratorial either.

Originally posted by seridium
Therefore the majority of Freemasons never know what kind of organization they are really apart of.

I love this. It automatically dismisses anything I might have to say on the subject.

Since you are going to continue to post tranches of stuff without engaging me on any single issue I guess there's not much opportunity to go forward.

Shame.

Originally posted by seridium
Notice how so many prominent people that molded the way the USA is today were infact freemasons, hrmm I wonder why?

Most people who 'moulded the country' weren't freemasons, but I'm not sure what your point is here. American freemasons are proud of their connections to the founding of a country they love. There were freemasons at all levels including militia and footsoldiers, on both sides, not just the leaders.

Originally posted by Trinityman

Originally posted by seridium
Therefore the majority of Freemasons never know what kind of organization they are really apart of.

I love this. It automatically dismisses anything I might have to say on the subject.

Since you are going to continue to post tranches of stuff without engaging me on any single issue I guess there's not much opportunity to go forward.

Shame.

What about my issues ? you call them traunches I call them justifiable questions that you disregard as slices tranches lol.
How can you really know what you are apart of if you are only part of a small fraction of the whole?

well state your issues and I will accordingly address everyone of them. Im confused by your ridicule and belittlement, therefore I see no issues to engage to you with other then to prove the integridty of my traunches?
I find it hard to fathom you calling my questions and statements tranches when surely you can see the straightforwardness of my thoughts and concepts right there in front of you.
Only thing I get back from you is the same info I would get from Anti-masonry FAQ but whos to say that Trevor W. McKeown
is the all knowing factiod on masonry as to www.freemasonrywatch.org... or www.masonicinfo.com... and the much a like, if I was to go by your logic then everything you know and say about freemasons is fact right?
And all my gathered knowledge is just straightforward propaganda...

[edit on 16-7-2006 by seridium]

Originally posted by seridium
What about my issues ? you call them traunches I call them justifiable questions that you disregard as slices tranches lol.

You have already pre-dismissed me as a minion in an organization that I don't understand. Why should I waste my time supplying answers to you that you have already stated you will not believe.

Im confused by your ridicule and belittlement, therefore I see no issues to engage to you with other then to prove the integridty of my traunches?

I have not ridiculed you or belittled you in any way. I do, however, have issues with the content of your posts.

Only thing I get back from you is the same info I would get from Anti-masonry FAQ

Why, don't you like the answers? The truth, consistently put forward, is the same no matter where it comes from.

but whos to say that Trevor W. McKeown is the all knowing factiod on masonry as to www.freemasonrywatch.org... or www.masonicinfo.com... and the much a like, if I was to go by your logic then everything you know and say about freemasons is fact right?

Everything I have said about freemasonry is correct.

And all my gathered knowledge is just straightforward propaganda...

Correct, if you put it like that. But I don't believe this is your progaganda though. I believe you are acting as an unwitting conduit for someone elses agenda.

Please don't make this personal, I have nothing against you at all. But I have regularly and consistently, with others, explained how freemasonry works and countered some of the incorrect information found on certain sites. I have asked people to justify their position and been ignored. I have attempted to drill down into some of these fallacies and posters have just disappeared. There is no real desire amongst some posters on this site to discuss some of these issues, just a preference to post 'n' run.

I'll go back through your last post and pick up some points to discuss. Don't run away and leave me though.

This is my own agenda and I have questions too, I refered to them in my last post you called them tranches.
that would be belittlement.
I have justified my thoughts and ideas with questions for you to reply to but since this is becoming an argument more than a discussion I will leave my questions there mybe someone will take the time to answer them like I have answered all yours.
And i have justified my positions and my thoughts and my questions, all I wait for now are answers?

ttyl no hard feelings hey I dont have no hard feelings I am just frustrated a lil with all the ridicule and befuddlement.

I have the agenda of my 25 year old brain, and just so you know I have always thought outside the box.

[edit on 16-7-2006 by seridium]