Israel size…

a reply to: Degradation33

the only reason pilate held a trail / even questioned Jesus is because the Sanhedrin (pharisees and sadducees) had already held a trial but didn't have the power to execute people.

rome pretty much let countries self govern and used local political leaders and kings as puppets to deal with most affairs,civil and releigous and they had to get permission to do certain things like holding trails that that the death sentence could be imposed. those puppets in turn were looking out for number one, if Jesus was allowed to keep on preaching they might have lost their power.

one example for this, the execution of James Jesus's brother,

1. And now Cæsar, upon hearing the death of Festus, sent Albinus into Judea, as procurator. But the king deprived Joseph of the high priesthood, and bestowed the succession to that dignity on the son of Ananus, who was also himself called Ananus. Now the report goes that this eldest Ananus proved a most fortunate man; for he had five sons who had all performed the office of a high priest to God, and who had himself enjoyed that dignity a long time formerly, which had never happened to any other of our high priests. But this younger Ananus, who, as we have told you already, took the high priesthood, was a bold man in his temper, and very insolent; he was also of the sect of the Sadducees, 23 who are very rigid in judging offenders, above all the rest of the Jews, as we have already observed; when, therefore, Ananus was of this disposition, he thought he had now a proper opportunity [to exercise his authority]. Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrim of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done; they also sent to the king [Agrippa], desiring him to send to Ananus that he should act so no more, for that what he had already done was not to be justified; nay, some of them went also to meet Albinus, as he was upon his journey from Alexandria, and informed him that it was not lawful for Ananus to assemble a sanhedrim without his consent. 24 Whereupon Albinus complied with what they said, and wrote in anger to Ananus, and threatened that he would bring him to punishment for what he had done; on which king Agrippa took the high priesthood from him, when he had ruled but three months, and made Jesus, the son of Damneus, high priest.
CHAPTER 9. Concerning Albinus Under Whose Procuratorship James Was Slain; As Also What Edifices Were Built By Agrippa.

above was written by Flavius Josephus a roman citizen who was also a Jewish citizen.

Josephus recorded the Great Jewish Revolt (AD 66–70), including the siege of Masada. His most important works were The Jewish War (c. 75) and Antiquities of the Jews (c. 94).[10] The Jewish War recounts the Jewish revolt against Roman occupation. Antiquities of the Jews recounts the history of the world from a Jewish perspective for an ostensibly Greek and Roman audience. These works provide valuable insight into first century Judaism and the background of Early Christianity.[10] Josephus's works are the chief source next to the Bible for the history and antiquity of ancient Israel, and provide a significant and independent extra-Biblical account of such figures as Pontius Pilate, Herod the Great, John the Baptist, James, brother of Jesus, and possibly Jesus of Nazareth.

Josephus

it is also been said and shown that there were times when rome allowed countries / kingdoms the authority to sentence people to death and sometimes took it away when changed from kingdom to province. if memory serves this happened in Judah in 6AD haven't found a good link to verify this.

below from Josephus

“Now Archelaus’s part of Judea was reduced into a province, and Coponius, one of the equestrian order among the Romans, was sent as a procurator, having the power of [life and] death put into his hands by Caesar”
Wars of the Jews,Book II 8:1
(ex]

this is also recorded in the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmuds.below from the Jerusalem Talmud.

“It is taught that more than forty years before the destruction of the Temple, capital punishment was removed from Israel”
THE WARS OF THE JEWS Chapter 8 :1

now this explains why in the Gospel of John right off the top of my head, i'll have to looh the others up it says.

So Pilate came out to them and asked, "What charges are you bringing against this man?" "If he were not a criminal," they replied, "we would not have handed him over to you." Pilate said, "Take him yourselves and judge him by your own law." "But we have no right to execute anyone," the Jews objected. This happened so that the words Jesus had spoken indicating the kind of death he was going to die would be fulfilled John (John 18:29-32).

i's plain to see that the Sanhedrin and some suggest that herod antipas the puppet king of Gallie and the herodians who dined on the scraps thrown to them by the romans had a hand in it.


Edit: keyboard is acting all crazy, or my getting old a@@ is getting sleepy i'll try and edit the quotes so it reads easier.

edit on 17-10-2023 by BernnieJGato because: (no reason given)

a reply to: BernnieJGato

Wow, you did a lot of research on this!

a reply to: JJproductions

Wow, you did a lot of research on this!

thanks, part of it is from church and some is due to i like history.

a reply to: BernnieJGato

I also wanted to thank you for all your input and expertise. The history lesson is amazing!

a reply to: JJproductions

I also wanted to thank you for all your input and expertise. The history lesson is amazing!

thank you again, but i object to being called a expert or having expertise. one reason is i'm developing CRS ( can't remeber sh@@) and some people say the definition of expert is, a has been drip, i've never been a drip.

no really there's lots i'd like to know just not enough time any more.

a reply to: BernnieJGato

it is also been said and shown that there were times when rome allowed countries / kingdoms the authority to sentence people to death and sometimes took it away when changed from kingdom to province. if memory serves this happened in Judah in 6AD haven't found a good link to verify this.

6 CE was the tax rebellion.
c. 28 CE was capital punishment by Romans only.

Judas of Galilee, or Judas of Gamala, was a Jewish leader who led resistance to the census imposed for Roman tax purposes by Quirinius in the Judaea Province in 6 CE.[1] He encouraged Jews not to register and those that did had their houses burnt and their cattle stolen by his followers.[2] He is credited with beginning the "fourth philosophy" of the Jews which Josephus blames for the disastrous war with the Romans in 66–73. These events are discussed by Josephus in The Jewish War and in Antiquities of the Jews and mentioned in the Acts of the Apostles.

In Antiquities of the Jews, Josephus states that Judas, along with Zadok the Pharisee, founded the Zealots, the "fourth sect" of 1st-century Judaism[3] (the first three being the Sadducees, the Pharisees, and the Essenes). Josephus blamed this fourth sect for the First Jewish–Roman War of 66–73. The Zealots were theocratic nationalists who preached that God alone was the ruler of Israel and urged that no taxes should be paid to Rome.
Judas_of_Galilee

Still, Jews living in the province maintained some form of independence and could judge offenders by their own laws, including capital offenses, until c. 28 CE.[16]
Judaea_(Roman_province)

I have tried to come up with a decent theory over the years as to why Jesus was executed. Was he secretly a Hasmonean, who Herod had killed off? Probably not. Was he secretly of a priestly family while that was dangerous because of shifting leadership? Maybe. If John the Baptist's dad was a priest and Jesus was his cousin. Maybe.

In any event, Pontius Pilate had a bad reputation. That hand washing routine isn't exactly indicative of fair administration of justice.

The time periods between 6 CE and 60 CE just don't seem like rebellious times to me, where factions would be eliminating each other, except "Judas's sons James and Simon were executed by procurator Tiberius Julius Alexander in about 46 CE."(Wikipedia) The Zealot faction lasted a bit too long for everybody's good, in my opinion.

originally posted by: worldstarcountry

Now, that's all fine and dandy. I'm no fan of Islamic terrorism and have openly called for international assistance to help Israel with the Hamas/Gaza issue.

In the last 10 years, many Jews in those other countries are gone. Most are very old people who see those areas as their home. We are talking about maybe 100 Jews or less in many of them. Iran actually has a good number of 9,000 and they live a very isolated lifestyle. They need to openly talk against Israel or they will be killed, jailed, and beaten to an inch of their life. Maybe they actually feel negatively against Israel, who knows? Many do it out of fear though...why do they still live there, that is a big question.

But what I keep trying to remind people is that Israel themselves supported Islamic terrorists when those terrorists were murdering all kinds of Semites in neighboring Syria just some years ago. The Islamic state which called Jews and their allies their biggest enemies shared a very peaceful border with the only Jewish state and never attacked them once.

You and others keep saying this and I just see it as a talking point with little substance. That so-called support was 100% medical and they provided it to anyone without trying to identify who was who. If they were an injured person they got help. Your vague narrative suggests they gave weapons/money to support, which would be 100% wrong. We also need to understand the US was supporting those groups in the effort for a regime change from a brutal dictator and one completely in bed with Russia. You can agree or disagree with the direction the US went, but there is really little choice in who you pick to support. Do you support this extremist group or this other extremist group? I don't think Israel really cares as long as whatever group doesn't have some fundamental goal to wipe out Israel in their charter as Iran, Hamas, and Hezbollah do.

Considering how often our governments including Israel as well have lied to our faces in a variety of manners, I suspect a good chunk of these Hamas terrorists are/were ISIS sleeper agents Mossad had on standby ready for action. I mean Hamas was created by the IDF/Mossad to begin with! That is established history!

Whatever, at least we can stop talking Ukraine now

Can you show me where you see that?

This narrative also goes along the same lines as the US created al-Qa'ida. The reality is they are all warlords and the US supported them in the war against Russia. Once again what you and others do not understand is the groups of 20+ years ago are no longer the same groups even though they have the same names. The first part is all the original members are long dead...lol

A long life is not part of the deal for warlords and their fighters...

What we see today are extremist movements that have taken over these groups and have gone in totally different directions than anything the original group was trying to do, so to say IDF created Hamas, or the US created al-Qa'ida really has zero connection with today.

Afghanistan in the 50s looked a lot like modern Europe, they still had warlords for 1000s of years, so no one created anything. When the Taliban came along they were extremist and brutal with no honor other than their own internally. They destroyed Afghanistan as we see today.


Lastly, I just want to say you need to pick and choose who you support or not in the ME, and the pickings are typically either this extremist group or this other extremist group that isn't as extreme or brutal. It's not like you have a big list to pick from...lol

Israel is as moderate as it gets no matter what they do it is nothing compared to the other ME countries, so pick your poison.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I think you're right, they were war lords. If someone has a group of gangsters lets say of 50 people with American money and support they could become couple of millions of people. For sure the US didn't create it but they made them a formidable power able to bomb world trade centers instead of couple of losers running with knifes after women to rape.

originally posted by: Kontars

I think you're right, they were war lords. If someone has a group of gangsters lets say of 50 people with American money and support they could become couple of millions of people. For sure the US didn't create it but they made them a formidable power able to bomb world trade centers instead of couple of losers running with knifes after women to rape.

911 was done with Boxcutters, so not even knives...lol. They are also still warlords, so nothing has changed much. Their greatest strength is they will just outlast whoever invades.

History...



Amirite?

a reply to: Xtrozero

The money secured for them a good world class training and intelligence. That is like providing better weapons to enemy then pretending that nothing is wrong. OBJECTION

originally posted by: Kontars

The money secured for them a good world class training and intelligence. That is like providing better weapons to enemy then pretending that nothing is wrong. OBJECTION

Actually, the money came from Saudi, if anywhere. Whatever we supplied in the 80s was long gone. That is my point all along as what we supported in the 80s didn't mean anything on 2000a.

It was also pretty cheap to do, some basic flight training, and some practice and they were done. The part that you need to think about and what applies to Hamas right now is those hijackers went there to die, lived next to Americans for years as friends, and left their wives and kids to die, knowing they would die. To them, it was a fast pass to heaven, and they were cheered on to do it.

Now take that mentality and apply it to Palestine and Hamas, Most of those fighters that went into Israel went there to die and kill as many until that point. This is the reality Israel is dealing with, people looking for their quick way to heaven and to do that they needs to die and kill Jews. Now you know why Israel might seem too brutal at times.

a reply to: Xtrozero
You missed the point here, let me give you a lesson in history

Okay I think little of of facts checking is required to understand the situation. Let's ask few questions to begin with

1) Who supported the creation Wahabism and the state of Saudi Arabia?
The Answer is: Great Britain
Reason:
- Annihilate Ottoman Empire by convincing Muslims to fight Muslim brothers. After the fall of Ottoman Empire Islam was erased from the culture and was replaced by secular ideology. Wahabism which is a British interpretation of Islam designed and pushed by their traitor Mohamed Ibn AbdulWahab is the core seed for modern terrorism that was engineered and utilized by British to convince Muslims to mass slaughter Ottomans to open the way for realization of Balfour declaration. The Saudis received a lot of funding to "teach" the public modern British Islamic terrorism which is very similar to American story with AlQeeda American funded schools (Madrasa) to teach youth terrorism as the expanse of tax payer money.
- Inaugurate Arabic leadership AKA Saudis that supports Balfour declaration of cutting off Palestine from Arabic lands for sake of Zionist Jews. It
was important back then for British to support Saudis with money and weapons to fight Arabs who refuse Balfour Declaration.

2) Who supported the creation of AlQeeda and funded terrorism schools around the world?
The Answer: USA
Reason: Stated reason is fighting the soviets

3) Who supported the creation of ISIS?
The Answer: USA, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and numerous gulf Saudi allies (Maybe you didn't know that one, but definitely Trump has some insider
information. If you don't believe Trump, then ask Hamad bin Jassim the former prime minister of Qatar who confessed to the public the whole plan)
Stated Reason: Taking over Syria
Side Effects / Unstated Reasons: Spread terrorism and fear around world

4) Who supported the creation of Hamas?
The Answer: Israel (WOW, I know that you didn't know that one, Well Ask Ron Paul, He knows some history)
Stated Reason: None
Side Effects / Unstated Reasons:
- Weaken Palestinian PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization)
- Eliminating any hope for peace by creating a group of Islamist's that want victory or death. Some kind of controlled opposition that went out of
control later to some extent.
- Keep the Israeli society united against a ruthless enemy


Lessons learned:
- Islamic terrorism is American British Israeli product to create enemies out of thin air.
- If you need to invade a country without a real reason create one e.g. Iraq nuclear weapons
- If you want to become a terrorist apply for one of those AlQeeda American funded radicalization schools or British Wahhabi schools in the past.

a reply to: Xtrozero

That was some seriously #ed up apologizing for support of terrorism. I am appalled that you could muster all those justifications for support of terrorists, especially of the radical islamic variety , by not only Israel but the USA as well. don't worry, we are mostly All aware the Brits had their hand in the cookie jar as well. Supporting radical islamic terrorists to overthrow a secular government and enabling the murder of thousands of Semitic peoples in the land of the Levant. I don't know how you could not taste acid in your throat, because I can practically smell the sulfur as if Satan himself is typing through you.

There is nothing holy about Jewish people just because an ancient book says so. Their government can and must be held to account for the very same sins of which they accuse those who they seek to destroy. Israel supported the wanton murder of thousands of Semitic people's across Syria and Iraq by providing a safe haven for these so called Islamic terrorists to receive aid and recover. Frankly it can be safely assumed they also provided logistical support to ISIS as well seeing as nobody is supposed to be helping any terrorists to begin with. I recall quite a handful of errant supply drops by the US MIC in Iraq as well that were very beneficial to this Semite murdering Islamic terror group.

Jews do not have an unwritten divine right to screech "anti Semite" as a ways of dodging legitimate criticisms. And no civil human should be justifying one Islamic terror group over another. We should be nuking them all equally.

originally posted by: Kontars

Lessons learned:
- Islamic terrorism is American British Israeli product to create enemies out of thin air.
- If you need to invade a country without a real reason create one e.g. Iraq nuclear weapons
- If you want to become a terrorist apply for one of those AlQeeda American funded radicalization schools or British Wahhabi schools in the past.

So who made the religious extremist? We all know they have been warlords forever and still are, that who how they live, but it was a religious extremist that created such a mess. As I said all the funds from days gone by are gone and all those people are dead. There are new groups, new funds, new ideas, etc than anything we or the Brits did.


It also wasn't "Iraq nukes" It was chemical weapons... Though I disagreed with both wars while spending a couple of years over there in the last 20 or so. I disagreed because there never was a practical end state. They would just wait us out 20 years or even 50...

It also wasn't "Iraq nukes" It was chemical weapons... Though I disagreed with both wars while spending a couple of years over there in the last 20 or so. I disagreed because there never was a practical end state. They would just wait us out 20 years or even 50...
a reply to: Xtrozero

I really want to believe what you're saying, so I went to BBC to check the reasons for Iraq war

www.bbc.com...

From BBC
[
The US said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and was a threat to international peace, but most countries refused to support military action against it.

However, no weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq.

"America lost a lot of credibility from this war," says Dr Karin von Hippel, director-general of the Royal United Services Institute think tank.

"You still hear people saying, twenty years later: why do we want to believe American intelligence?"
]

My advise brother is to change the news channel you're watching because ..........
I think there is no need for further comments. Next time provide proofs to everything you're saying because you're hurting your credibility.

originally posted by: worldstarcountry
That was some seriously #ed up apologizing for support of terrorism. I am appalled that you could muster all those justifications for support of terrorists, especially of the radical islamic variety,

I don't know how you could not taste acid in your throat, because I can practically smell the sulfur as if Satan himself is typing through you.

I didn't give my opinion and just said what happened. I'm sorry you can't accept reality, maybe go back into whatever protective place you came from.

You just do not get it no matter how many times you are told. The whole damn ME is one BIG bucket of Islamic extremists. It is just to what degree is the only thing that sets them apart. Outside of Israel name a country over there that doesn't do everything we view as vile.

So we have two choices, kill them all and start over or work with those that support our best interests. There are no good guys bad guys...they all are bad...

originally posted by: Kontars

The US said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and was a threat to international peace, but most countries refused to support military action against it.

However, no weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq.

"America lost a lot of credibility from this war," says Dr Karin von Hippel, director-general of the Royal United Services Institute think tank.

"You still hear people saying, twenty years later: why do we want to believe American intelligence?"

My advise brother is to change the news channel you're watching because ..........
I think there is no need for further comments. Next time provide proofs to everything you're saying because you're hurting your credibility.

So back to my point, it was not nukes... it was chemical weapons, so reread what a WMB can be...lol

This is from your link

fterwards, the UN Security Council passed Resolution 687 ordering Iraq to destroy all its weapons of mass destruction (WMDs) - a term used to describe nuclear, biological and chemical weapons, and long-range ballistic missiles.

Reading comprehension?

They never had nukes but they had a ton of chemicals that they actually used on the Kurds. The problem was when we invaded they had already moved all their chemicals to Syria, so in the end we invaded and they had no chemicals. I did see where they kept them and those areas were off-limits as they were still hot.

So ya it's not the news I read, I was freak'en there...lol

a reply to: Xtrozero

I agree extremists are bad. I understand your solution but I don't see an easy way to execute it without killing tons of civilians. I think the solution should be similar to what US had done in Nazi Germany. US took control of media and education to "Re-educate" people. Violence is not the solution, it has never worked before and it shall not work in the future.

originally posted by: Kontars

I agree extremists are bad. I understand your solution but I don't see an easy way to execute it without killing tons of civilians. I think the solution should be similar to what US had done in Nazi Germany. US took control of media and education to "Re-educate" people. Violence is not the solution, it has never worked before and it shall not work in the future.

Then you have the problem with religion. The mosque is basically a breeding ground for extremists. They start them very young and that is why 20 years later you can kill most and there never is an end to them and that is why I said they just wait you out 20 30 40 years.

These people live crappy lives and are told a fast pass to paradise is to go blow yourself up and they all are willing to get to heaven ASAP. Nazis were not like this, Nazis didn't have some religious ideal to die. What you suggest would be to start with killing every male over the age of 8 and then start the reeducation process. Is anyone willing to do that?