Is Heaven Beyond Time, or is only God? Keep

Um, I think you are mistaken. There is no person in heaven besides Enoch. When a person dies, their sprit rests in peace until everyone is revived and then we all face judgement. It is only THEN that people will be raised to a heavenly dimension or a not too nice place where the fallen have prepared hell.

a reply to: AlexandrosTheGreat

Modern day Christians are quoting a book (the bible) as if it’s the ultimate truth produced by god himself. When in-fact its contents were decided upon by emperor Constantine and the Bishop of Alexandria, Athanasius. The list of books were then put in front of over 300 bishops gathered from around the Roman Empire and agreed. Lots of followers (including Nazarenes) weren’t happy with the control the Holy Roman Empire had over the new religion and challenged it. To then be called heretics. The Church of Rome dominated this book and the direction of the Church. Today there are over 100 different bibles written in English. Yet modern day Christian’s still clutch to its every word which on many occasions has been found to be false. That’s why Christian’s hate historian’s, archaeologists and researchers. 100+ years ago the bible was the only written record of their belief system but now it is slowly starting to unravel. Faith is having a belief even though there is no evidence to support that belief. Blind faith is having a belief even though there is no evidence to support that belief and a considerable amount of evidence to contradict that belief.

a reply to: redchad

Quit copying and pasting your replies over and over again before you get flagged.

We know that Moses and Elijah appeared with Ye'shua during the transfiguration so it is pretty much assumed that they arrived from highest Heaven
Remember Elijah was taken directly into Heaven as was Enoch
Also we are not entirely certain where Enoch resides since he is now claimed to be the angel Metatron and he may be resident in the heavenly throne room or in another location at another level of Heaven

a reply to: AlexandrosTheGreat

originally posted by: amicusbrief
We know that Moses and Elijah appeared with Ye'shua during the transfiguration so it is pretty much assumed that they arrived from highest Heaven
Remember Elijah was taken directly into Heaven as was Enoch
Also we are not entirely certain where Enoch resides since he is now claimed to be the angel Metatron and he may be resident in the heavenly throne room or in another location at another level of Heaven

a reply to: AlexandrosTheGreat

You beat me to it!

It seems to me that I also read in scripture "Absent from the body, present with the Lord."

Except for the Metatron part. Humanity is different then Angels and are slightly below them now, but not in the future. That very fact was very upsetting to Lucifer.

I imagine God can do what he likes, being all powerful. Although there are some issues with that thought.

Anyway, Heaven could be beyond time. It could be a place within this universe. Another universe. Anything really. You likely won’t even know if you get there. It won’t matter.

"A little lower than the angels"
For now!
Looking forward to the millennium!!


a reply to: visitedbythem

a reply to: redchad

Oh I am well aware of all that. I’m Greek Orthodox and our Bible and versions of the apocrypha don’t suffer from the same crap the Catholic Bible or the KJV (gag me) do. We got as original as you can get. Plus my mother is American so I can come discuss it all with the best of em here!

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: redchad

Quit copying and pasting your replies over and over again before you get flagged.

I will if you stop quoting Constantine’s book! You see when you write religious material that’s not entirely true in particular quotes from your bible. Readers should know the source of your material and where it came from. Emperor Constantine of course Gods representative on earth.

originally posted by: ARM1986
I imagine God can do what he likes, being all powerful. Although there are some issues with that thought.

Anyway, Heaven could be beyond time. It could be a place within this universe. Another universe. Anything really. You likely won’t even know if you get there. It won’t matter.

I don't think Heaven is in this Universe, not the Heaven where God dwells atleast. There might be another Heaven, since paul mentions 3rd heaven, which might be assumed where God is at. What about the other two? Our universe itself might be the 1st heaven, a physical one, but who knows, perhaps there is a spiritual component to it as well.

However, certainly the 3rd Heaven isn't in this universe, for the bible says, all things seen were made from things unseen. Maybe this universe is a pocket universe or heaven within the 3rd heaven, but I'd assume it to be drastically seperated. Heaven is beyond the container of the universe so to speak, but it is the very container of the universe that has came out of Heaven, through God's Word. Atleast, this might make sense to think of it this way.

Just know, Heaven is not physical. Though the spirit can become physcial in some sense. Or can it? We know the angels came to earth, and they are spiritual, but does the bible ever say they are physical?

We see these ufo's and the premise biblical is they are spiritual in nature, fallen angels, and it seems they can shift into physicality, in some manner or form for atleast some period of time. Perhaps those grey bodies, which some claim to be machinelike, are how the spiritual beings manifest in the physical realm for longer periods.

Just speculation, and I hope I don't derail the thread too much with the ufo talk.

Also when the new Jerusalem arrives from Heaven onto the Earth, there seems to be a blending or merger so to speak of the two "heavens" or perhaps "realms". God himself, being spiritual, will dwell with us forever, on Earth. Now, does this mean perhaps the physcial realm will become spiritual, or perhaps meet in the middle somewhere. The bible clearly says no flesh can enter the Kingdom of God (is this heaven?).

I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.


So, I wonder. When God had man in mind, did He have an entirely new physical dimension, realm, heaven in mind too?

The original plan was for man to have everlasting life in the garden of Eden and be with God, in His presence forever, and we know God does not change. This still seems to be the plan. Eden was just a small piece of land, a paradise, on earth. God could have made the entire Earth into Eden, but He designed man to carryout the rest of His will, for His pleasure, that we would then tend the garden, perhaps turn the entire Earth into Eden.

From there, who isn't to say we'll turn the entire universe into a garden throughout the span of eternity?

Perhaps the physical universe will stay the same, but our glorified bodies will allow us the travel between the heavens. When God comes to Earth, what happens to the spiritual heaven. Of course God is what makes heaven, heaven, so perhaps the entire concept is faulty, perhaps a merger of the spiritual heaven and the physical.

Again, all speculation. Remember, if things aren't explicitly stated in the bible, don't put your faith in it. But, just for fun thoughts. I hope it does no harm in speculating.

There is all the time you need in heaven.



They say the light is the fastest thing and that at light speed you see the universe all at once and whatever happened in it.