Is Heaven Beyond Time, or is only God? Keep

We know the Word of God is true because of prophecy. It's our greatest proof the bible is true. God does nothing without announcing it through a prophet first.

We also know he is beyond time, outside of it, in another dimension so to speak and we also know he is all knowing, knowing the end of all things and only He shares this attribute.

Some people also say there is no time in heaven. If there is no time in heaven, does that mean anyone in heaven can see the future? I'd think this not to be, since that would mean anyone in heaven could give prophesy so to speak and we know, knowing all things is an attribute only God has.

Does this mean there is time in heaven, a different kind of time? Or perhaps time is meaningless and therefore only God can travel between Earth time and the non time of heaven, and pierce the veil so to speak, not unlike how only Jesus was deemed worthy to open the scroll in Revelation.

Time is connected to space and the bible also says the heavens will be rolled up as a scroll, so perhaps even though there is no time in heaven, only the Father can access the scroll of time so speak, not to mention, even if there is no time in heaven, surely no created thing can know everything for being limited, but how about seeing the end of all things? Does one need to know everything to see the end of all things, or what about seeing just a limited number of things?

I argue both of these things are attributed to God, knowing all things, AND seeing the end of all things, aka, seeing the future, therefore, even if there is no time in heaven, the heavenly host, or even people in heaven, somehow can't peer into the veil of the future, but someone only the present, otherwise can any angel or the souls mentioned in Revelation, can never see the Earth in the present or future.

In short, can only God see anything in the future? If heaven is beyond time, is there any access to Earth time for angels in the 3rd heaven?

I guess, perhaps Jesus is the link between Earth time and the "Beyond Time-ness" of Heaven. Or perhaps, as Paul said, the 3rd heaven, maybe the how angels access the present Earth time is from the second Heaven? Thereby would this preserve Heaven being truly beyond time, yet having angels have the ability to access the present in Earth Time, but not the future.

Perhaps God has the ability also to sync up the non time of Heaven and Earth time according to his plan of Redemption in the book of revelation where the souls are asking God, how long until they are avenged. They would need to be somehow synced up to Earth time in a realm beyond time.


Wonderful idea, but a little presumptuous I fear. May the Lord have mercy and protect me from any sin of presumption.


(Delete my other thread please. After moving the thread, it no longer updates and can be seen in recent posts section)

a reply to: TTU77

There is no need for time or prophecy in heaven. We will all know everything there is to know once we are joined with God.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: TTU77

There is no need for time or prophecy in heaven. We will all know everything there is to know once we are joined with God.

Careful, you're sounding a bit like me!

a reply to: TheValeyard

Somehow, you think this is possible on earth. While we have access to the Holy Spirit, we still won't know everything He knows until we are removed from this corrupt earth and all of God's enemies have been destroyed.

Well, I have an opinion on that but I'll exit here.
I just wanted to say we're not totally different.
Cheers.

a reply to: Deetermined

a reply to: TheValeyard

Honestly, I want to know how you came to your belief and how your NDE played into it. Do you have your own thread on it?

I just realized, the concept that there is no time in heaven, may not be biblical. I've heard people say this so often, I took it for granted there is no time in Heaven.

I'm still confused. Is the time connected to Earth, the same time connected to Heaven, but how can this be if Einstein is right and time is connected to a space.

Is the spiritual heaven somehow connected to same time as physical time? Or perhaps the time of this physical dimension is grafted into the time of spiitual heaven?

Perhaps spacetime is entirely wrong to begin with?

A fun idea, but based on two premisis. There being no time in heaven and spacetime is but one thing.

Ideas?

No thread, no.
And more than one NDE.
I died of critical hypothermia and successive shock at age 4 when my mother tried to warm me up too fast in the bathtub.
I felt my heart stop then I was out, then a light came down to meet me. It felt like more of a male energy than female.
I asked if I was supposed to go with it.
It said it was my choice.
Since I was so young and had barely began this life, I felt it'd be a waste to end it then, so I went back to my body, but being in the presence of the all, in that light, made me remember everything from before I was born.

That was the first one.
And what caused me to get critical hypothermia in the first place? I was sleepwalking and following a shadow figure in my dreams, and it convinced me there was a tornado coming and that my family was outside and I had to warn them.
Tornados occur in the warmer months, but hey, I didn't know that. I was tall enough to reach the doorknob from INSIDE the kitchen, but from outside, on the porch, standing 2 inches lower, the doorknob was unreachable, so when I woke up and realized I was standing outside in an ice storm, I could not get back inside.
I tried to curl up in the flower bed on the least windy side of the house, but it was -14 degrees f that night and I was in cotton footy PJs, so didn't stay conscious for too long. Hypothermia itself isn't actually too bad of a way to go though TBH, once you get past stage 1. You just go numb and get really drowsy and fall asleep. My dad found me the following morning when he was headed to work, and put me in a lukewarm bath, but he left the room and my mom turned up the heat on the faucet, and it was too much. Lemme tell ya, even the slightest warmth in stage 4 hypothermia feels like a chemical burn, and when you're surrounded by that warmth in a bathtub of hot water, it's super not fun.

I've struggled with severe depression throughout my life so I attempted to unalive myself and return home a couple times, but was denied it. Once by shooting myself up with enough fast acting and slow acting insulin to kill several large horses, and another with a sedative overdose.
With those I didn't cross over, just left my body for a while.

We might disagree on doctrines and labels, but we seem to agree that we are immortal souls and there's life after death,
and that we're part of something far greater than these singular selves.

Maybe one of these days I'll make the thread.
Don't feel much of an urge to TBH, but idk. Maybe.

a reply to: Deetermined

a reply to: TTU77

I don’t think God knows our free will choices until after we make them
Who knows, it’s not very clear in the bible so deliberately left open to individual understanding

originally posted by: TTU77
I just realized, the concept that there is no time in heaven, may not be biblical. I've heard people say this so often, I took it for granted there is no time in Heaven.

I'm still confused. Is the time connected to Earth, the same time connected to Heaven, but how can this be if Einstein is right and time is connected to a space.

Is the spiritual heaven somehow connected to same time as physical time? Or perhaps the time of this physical dimension is grafted into the time of spiitual heaven?

Perhaps spacetime is entirely wrong to begin with?

A fun idea, but based on two premisis. There being no time in heaven and spacetime is but one thing.

Ideas?

Idea: Theoretical physicists propose that all time happens at once-past, present and future. If true, that explains a lot of the unexplained phenomenon in the world.

Time is really just a list of events you took particular notice of.
"You talked to me, then I thought about cardinals, then someone sang my favorite tune..."

While things can be sequential on the other side, consciousness can also be anywhere and everywhere at once,
so the measurement of seconds or hours kinda loses its importance, especially when you can just will yourself to wherever you want to be. Then you don't even necessarily need to remember what came before and after the destination.

Okay I'm really dipping out this time. LOL.
I suck at not replying to things.

a reply to: TTU77

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: TheValeyard

Somehow, you think this is possible on earth. While we have access to the Holy Spirit, we still won't know everything He knows until we are removed from this corrupt earth and all of God's enemies have been destroyed.

As suggested here: 1 Corinthians 13:12

King James Version

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

a reply to: TTU77

I'm not sure why you think there should be time in heaven, as there is no day or night and no need to keep track of it. There is no sun or moon because Jesus is the light of it and it never goes out.

originally posted by: TheValeyard
Time is really just a list of events you took particular notice of.
"You talked to me, then I thought about cardinals, then someone sang my favorite tune..."

While things can be sequential on the other side, consciousness can also be anywhere and everywhere at once,
so the measurement of seconds or hours kinda loses its importance, especially when you can just will yourself to wherever you want to be. Then you don't even necessarily need to remember what came before and after the destination.

Okay I'm really dipping out this time. LOL.
I suck at not replying to things.

a reply to: TTU77

I agree with that. We won't need sleep or food either. Food will just be for pleasure. No need for seasons or a sleeping hour. No sadness or pain of any kind. We will be incorruptible.

originally posted by: visitedbythem

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: TheValeyard

Somehow, you think this is possible on earth. While we have access to the Holy Spirit, we still won't know everything He knows until we are removed from this corrupt earth and all of God's enemies have been destroyed.

As suggested here: 1 Corinthians 13:12

King James Version

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

True, but we won't be face to face with God until Jesus fulfills ALL things which includes the destruction of God's enemies and the current corrupt earth that we live in. 1 Corinthians 15

originally posted by: Deetermined

originally posted by: visitedbythem

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: TheValeyard

Somehow, you think this is possible on earth. While we have access to the Holy Spirit, we still won't know everything He knows until we are removed from this corrupt earth and all of God's enemies have been destroyed.

As suggested here: 1 Corinthians 13:12

King James Version

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

True, but we won't be face to face with God until Jesus fulfills ALL things which includes the destruction of God's enemies and the current corrupt earth that we live in. 1 Corinthians 15

Its getting to be like "as in the days of Noah". Fortunately for us, God did not focus his wrath on Noah and his family. In fact, he had a plan to remove them to a safe place and spare their lives....

God the Father and the Holy Spirit are invisible. But, did people see God? We wanted a God with a face and hands, and God provided himself.

Luke 9:20
He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God.

Peter knew he was with a part of the Living God. The Holy Spirit spoke to him and told him.

a reply to: TTU77

Good question. I recommend looking up what theologians say. A number do suggest Heaven is without time, yet the Bible itself mentions years. For instance, the authors of the Old Testament certainly utilized a twelve-month calendar.

Twelve thirty-day months were used making a total of 360 days for the year. Abraham, for instance, used the 360-day year, which was known in the land of Ur.

In Genesis, the history of the Great Flood and Noah's Ark illustrates this by citing the 150-day interval until the Flood waters receded and the land was habitable again.

However, there is the matter of Levitical versus secular years and Roman versus Jewish hours. One needs to distinguish which is being used in order to understand the context and meaning of the dates and times used in the Holy Bible:

A complication arose for the Jews who counted their secular years the way their neighbors did, beginning with the fall equinox in September-October. When they came out of Egypt, God commanded in Exodus 12:2 that the month of Abib (March-April) would mark the beginning of their year. Therefore, their new Levitical year began in the spring while they continued to start their secular year in the fall.

The Hebrews had twelve months, each running from the middle of one of our months to the middle of the next month. The Jewish day ran from sundown to sundown and was divided into eight "watches", four of daylight and four of darkness. By New Testament times, they had begun to observe the Roman custom of twelve hours of day and twelve hours of night, but they did not count minutes or seconds. Yet, this caused further problems since the Romans counted their hours from twelve noon or twelve midnight, and the Jews counted from sunrise or sunset.

Reference

At the end of the day, the answer is: It's whatever God wants, and it's all a part of His perfect Plan

a reply to: visitedbythem

You're right; I guess I should have been more specific. We won't be seeing God in ALL OF HIS GLORY until we are in the new heaven/earth. Jesus was indeed the physical manifestation of God.

a reply to: rukia

The Israelites in the Old Testament were on earth, so they had time. However, it can get pretty confusing determining the Millennial Period on earth from actual heaven when reading Ezekiel and other prophets of the Old Testament. The Millennium will be the closest we have to heaven on earth, but it is not heaven because people will still be procreating, aging and dying during that 1,000 year reign.

Time is a construct we who are currently living in mortal vessels use to account for change
Time to us equates to decay and increasing entropy in the systems that surround us
Since YHWH does not change HE is outside of time as we think of it
At the coming of Ye'shua we will be changed into immortal spirit bodies which then will be unaffected by time
Time will still exist in the universe because we will be residing in the millennial kingdom until YHWH HIMSELF delivers the new Yerushalayim