Dr. John E. Mack on the complexity of the alien abduction experience

He expresses common sense (to me) - and he was more intelligent than his enemies.

They should have listened to him instead of doing their best to destroy him!

John E Mack: UFOs/aliens shatter Western Worldview

a reply to: SkyAngel

Your brief comments make no mention that Mack was fired by Harvard and eventually killed in Ireland when crossing a street.

I have his books. Mack got armored with the issue, eventually accepting at face value every story that came along. In my thinking, he missed the big picture, but he was a medical doctor, wanting to accept the human side of the stories he reported. His perceptions didn't get into the weird physics that many of the stories included but which was a fatal flaw beyond his good intentions and in strict scientific investigations today were used to throw him under the literal bus.

(But; oh, yeah, deny the existence of UFOs until...well, until the elites want us to know more about them.)

RIP Dr. Mack

For anyone interested in the abduction subject:

originally posted by: Observer19
a reply to: SkyAngel

Your brief comments make no mention that Mack was fired by Harvard and eventually killed in Ireland when crossing a street.

I have his books. Mack got armored with the issue, eventually accepting at face value every story that came along. In my thinking, he missed the big picture, but he was a medical doctor, wanting to accept the human side of the stories he reported.

Susan Clancy, also from Harvard, spent 6 years researching alien abductions. She has an interesting story, with anecdotes like a story about the ad she wanted to place in the newspaper saying she wanted to talk to people who had been abducted. The newspaper was skeptical that Harvard would research that, so they had to check if she was really from Harvard before running the ad.

She wrote a book "Abducted: How People Come to Believe They Were Kidnapped by Aliens”, but in the end she didn't have thick enough skin to continue that research, nor the earlier research she was also involved in (regarding memory) which also required thick skin, since both are controversial topics. I guess people have a hard time admitting their memories aren't perfect. She talks about her research in this video:

Abducted: How People Come to Believe They Were Kidnapped by Aliens


Unlike Mack, she didn't get fired by Harvard as far as I know. In summary she says most people believe their own alien abduction claims, but that doesn't mean they happened, and she explains how they come to have beliefs that the experiences were real.

Clancy applies critical thinking to standards of evidence, where we commonly hear things like "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". Here is what she says about that in the video, to lament the lack of objective evidence in alien abduction claims, which of course is everything to scientists doing research.

41:50
"How do we know the moon is round?"
We don't know that based on what other people tell us, we have objective evidence like photos and eclipse shadows.
...
42:40
"There's a lot of anecdotal reports, a lot of suspicion, rumor, hearsay. But none of that counts as the kind of objective evidence that you would want to support such an exceptional claim (as alien abduction). Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

In some places now, surveillance cameras are everywhere, so they should be recording some of these abductions, but if you play the get out of reality free card, you say something like 'the aliens disable the devices so nobody records their abductions'. So there's always some excuse why there's no evidence that meets any scientific standards.

If you want to assess someone's critical thinking skills in general, discussing this topic is a good way to do that, because the amount of critical thinking a person applies will definitely manifest in such a discussion if they've looked into this topic in any depth.

originally posted by: SkyAngel
He expresses common sense (to me) - and he was more intelligent than his enemies.

They should have listened to him instead of doing their best to destroy him!

Common sense can mislead you. Common sense wouldn't lead you to think that people can really, truly believe something happened to them that didn't actually happen. Yet research shows that can and does happen, that we have false memories that we are so sure of, we don't even want to believe the truth that our memories can be false. John Mack doesn't seem to understand these not so simple truths backed up by research.

Speaking of things not being so simple, I think your Einstein quote "If you cant explain it simply you dont understand it well enough" in your signature is fake. There are lots of fake Einstein quotes floating around, that's just one of them, unless you can provide a verificable reference to prove he actually wrote that, or the exact time and place he said it and who documented it if it wasn't written. Einstein said more or less the opposite of that quote when he wrote a book to explain his own theory of relativity. Of course he understands his own theory, and tried to simplify it for the layperson, but he explains that it's still going to be a very challenging thing to understand and it's not simple.

Another fake quote from Einstein mentions a six-year-old:
'Albert Einstein most famously said “If you can't explain it to a six-year-old, you don't understand it yourself.”'

This is from the preface to his book "Relativity: The Special and General Theory, by Albert Einstein" where he explicitly explains why a six year old won't be able to understand it.

www.gutenberg.org...

The present book is intended, as far as possible, to give an exact insight into the theory of Relativity to those readers who, from a general scientific and philosophical point of view, are interested in the theory, but who are not conversant with the mathematical apparatus of theoretical physics. The work presumes a standard of education corresponding to that of a university matriculation examination, and, despite the shortness of the book, a fair amount of patience and force of will on the part of the reader. The author has spared himself no pains in his endeavour to present the main ideas in the simplest and most intelligible form, and on the whole, in the sequence and connection in which they actually originated.

Nature is complex, and sometimes it's not possible to explain some aspects of it simply even when we understand them. We could try to dumb it down to explain it to a six year old, but such an explanation would necessarily be incomplete or wrong in some respects.

The human mind is also complex. At about 1.5 minutes in the video, Dr Mack says he's had people come to him saying they wanted to be told their experience was a dream or something. If you listen to Susan Clancy's video, she said that once a person decided they've been abducted by aliens, they don't want to be told that, and the only chance you have of having the "abductee" understand it's a hypnogogic experience is to talk to them BEFORE they decided what the experience means, while they're still trying to figure it out...because then they are more open to such explanations.

Dr.Mack is quite dead killed instantly in a Car Accident , Truck hit him.

Car accidents are the establishments favorite Assassin tool .

They seem so Random and untraceable yet very effective.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

I just love the desperate times that some naysayers are having more and more ever day in touting their "critical thinking skills" in wordy responses over and above thousand if not tens of thousands of people that have lived through incredible experiences at the hands of the UFO beings.

Yes, visiting ETs are one thing, but to accept the in-your-face evidence that they have the talents of projecting instant mind (and body) control over us is getting into very serious business. Some would call that impossible, some would call it virtually Satanic and some would shrug and say "shXt happens." The Universe is a large place and unfathomable mysteries abound. Some we discover ourselves, and others are brought to us whether we want them or not.

If you haven't notice before now, your ticket has already been secured. The UFOs are being fed to us everyday by this or that source. Enjoy the ride. Outright denial doesn't work any longer about the actual existence of the physical intrusions of the craft. Knowledge about the deeper intrusions into our minds is a whole different matter and will be as buried as long as possible.

Our biggest concerns should be that TPTB will gain the talents of the UFOfolk and use them against us. After all, my "critical thinking" tells me that is what MK-Ultra was all about.

a reply to: asabuvsobelow

I read somewhere that there were two hit and runs that same day and both victims were named John Mack. I can't find it at the moment, still looking...

This is wild! However, no corroboration...

Four John Macks died on the same day!??

Still looking, but I think its false.

originally posted by: NightFlight
a reply to: asabuvsobelow

I read somewhere that there were two hit and runs that same day and both victims were named John Mack. I can't find it at the moment, still looking...

This is wild! However, no corroboration...

Four John Macks died on the same day!??

Still looking, but I think its false.

Dude. That’s amazing. I can’t believe I’d never heard of that. Fantastic share.

originally posted by: NightFlight
a reply to: asabuvsobelow

I read somewhere that there were two hit and runs that same day and both victims were named John Mack. I can't find it at the moment, still looking...

This is wild! However, no corroboration...

Four John Macks died on the same day!??

Still looking, but I think its false.

If you read through that thread someone has actually posted the Death Index for England & Wales

It shows only one John E. Mack having died that day.

Plus, the judicial records show he was killed by a drunken driver.


As for the wider topic. Alien Abduction appears to be a particular "American" thing that doesn't affect other societies on such a scale. Link

originally posted by: mirageman

As for the wider topic. Alien Abduction appears to be a particular "American" thing that doesn't affect other societies on such a scale. Link

"Reporting alien abductions appears to be a particular "American" thing" would perhaps be more accurate and possibly cultural in nature, in terms of describing what was experienced, potential reinforcement and the ease of reporting.

I imagine for example there won't be many local groups you can join to discuss your experience in an African nation.

originally posted by: ColeYounger
For anyone interested in the abduction subject:

Thanks for sharing!

a reply to: Arbitrageur

I love the quote no matter who created it! - It is based on a similar quote by Ernest Rutherford "It should be possible to explain the laws of physics to a barmaid."


Anyway, Einstein did have a discussion with de Broglie where he said: "that all physical theories, their mathematical expressions apart ought to lend themselves to so simple a description 'that even a child could understand them.'"


But, let's go back to the topic because this topic isn't about my quote!

originally posted by: mirageman


As for the wider topic. Alien Abduction appears to be a particular "American" thing that doesn't affect other societies on such a scale. Link

At night...while they're in bed....

(save for a few exceptional cases. Walton, Hill etc)

As a contacte I beg to differ totally. Go talk to Billy (or not) because he is the real deal. The ONLY explanation is mind blowing technology. Been through my experience with a fine tooth comb. Or I may have tripped it in to being? Nahhhh It happened. Mind over matter somewhat. a reply to: mirageman