Fatal Flaws in the Theory of Spacetime and Black Holes

You’re gut feeling is going to tell you I’m horribly wrong about the things I’m going to discuss with you, but I assure you this is information you need to absorb, process, and retain. This discussion revolves around the fundamental flaws I have found with our current laws of physics and the notion of spacetime. However, I first need to slightly bend your brain to process in terms of dimensions.

Imagine a 2-dimensional stick man on a piece of paper. We as 3-dimensional beings can easily create this 2-dimensional being with nothing more than a pencil, a piece of paper, and our imagination. This being is very simple for us to perceive and create. Now I ask you, can the 2-dimensional stick man ever perceive our 3-dimensional world, or us, 3-dimensional beings? Absolutely not. A 2-dimensional being exists in length and width, but has no depth, or no “up and out” like we have in the 3rd dimension. Therefore, a 2-dimension being could NEVER perceive or create a 3-dimensional structure. Moreover, to perceive the 3rd dimension or a 3-dimensional structure, you need a 3-dimensional brain. Our brain allows us to perceive this dimension. Because the 2-dimensional stick man lacks a 3-dimensional brain, it could never perceive any object in our 3-dimensional world.

Following this notion, could we as 3-dimensional beings ever perceive the 4-dimensional world, 4-dimensional structures, or 4-dimensional beings? Absolutely not. We don’t have the 4-dimensional internal components that would allow us to see the 4-dimensional world, similar to how a 2-dimensional stick man simply does not have the faculties to perceive our 3-dimensional world.

So, I ask you, did you know that “spacetime” is the only 4-dimensional structure in our universe that we know of? Does it seem a little strange to you that we are able to perceive this 4-dimensional structure so easily and base our math and physics off it? It doesn’t make sense to me either. If the stick man can not perceive our 3-dimensional world, how have humans magically figured out a way to perceive a 4-dimensional structure like spacetime?

If you are a visual learner, Carl Sagan does an excellent job of helping you visualize why we as humans could never perceive 4-dimensional structures. Look and we will start getting to the nitty gritty of everything:

Carl Sagan explains why we can’t perceive the 4th dimension

Spacetime
Here is the current physics definition of spacetime:
“In physics, spacetime is any mathematical model that fuses the three dimensions of space and the one dimension of time into a single four-dimensional continuum.”

So, what is “spacetime?” Spacetime consists of two parts, space and time, which merge together to form a 4-dimensional structure called spacetime (don’t forget a 3-dimensional being could never perceive a 4-dimensional structure). But wait, if space is literally the absence of matter (has zero physical properties) and time also has no physical properties either, how can the two “fuse” together to form a 4-dimensional structure that can bend and ripple like a physical fabric?

Two constructs (space and time) that do not have any physical pieces of matter associated with them could never fuse together to form a 4-dimensional structure because there is nothing to fuse with. Each of these is made of absolutely nothing. Moreover, how can the fusing of space and time (which have no physical properties) produce something like gravity which exerts its effects solely on physical objects made of matter? It just does not make sense. So gravity apparently emanates from two things that are made of absolutely nothing, space and time.

Black Holes and Spacetime
So what about black holes? We know black holes are formed from a very heavy object bending spacetime to an extreme amount, which forms essentially a cavity in spacetime where other objects can be sucked into. But did you know that black holes can spin at nearly the speed of light? Did you know that spacetime spins WITH the black holes?

Let me explain something to you people. If spacetime was able to spin WITH black holes, the laws of tension would take effect. The current physics paradigm will tell you that these black holes and the spacetime associated with them spin infinitely in one direction at nearly the speed of light, but if this were the case, the spacetime would eventually exhibit tension and stop spinning, or even possibly tear open (which we can’t even imagine happening). I know this is difficult to visualize, so let me just show you in roughly 2 minutes if you have the time:

Myself explaining why spacetime cannot spin with black holes

As shown in the video, spacetime could never spin infinitely with black holes without fully breaking the laws of physics. Moreover, if there are an infinite number of spinning black holes in our Universe, the consistent spinning and gathering of excess spacetime would cause the edges of the Universe to recede rather than expand, even though physics tells us it is currently expanding in all directions.

Additionally, it’s interesting to note that the world leader on black holes, Nobel Prize Winner Kip Thorne, blatantly spreads false science and false information about how black holes operate. Now ask yourself, if black holes are valid, why does the Nobel Prize Winner for black holes spread lies about how they operate? Why does he sound like he knows nothing about science or scientific integrity? I’m pulling an excerpt from this article:

www.space.com...

"When you fall into a black hole, everything that falls in after you over millions of years, as seen by you inside the black hole, comes pounding down on you in a fraction of a second, because of the enormous differences of time flow," Thorne explained. This would create a singularity: a location where the laws of physics break down and measurements of gravity go to infinity. "That produces sort of a 'sheet singularity' descending on you at the speed of light. Stuff that fell into the black hole before you, some of it will backscatter back up toward you," said Thorne. This could happen with all of the material that had ever fallen into the black hole during its lifetime. The material would create a shockwave singularity coming straight up at you. – Kip Thorne

Now I ask you, have any of you ever heard of someone falling into a black hole? No? So why is a Nobel Prize winner in black hole physics even pretending he knows what happens inside of them? He claims that the laws of physics break down inside of black holes. Have any of you ever heard of the laws of physics breaking down anywhere in our reality or anywhere in the Universe? No, because this can’t happen. They are laws for a reason.

Thorne also says that measurements of gravity go to “infinity” in a black hole. For measurements of gravity to EVER go to infinity, you must have an infinite mass. Because there is nothing with an infinite mass in our Universe, a black hole could NEVER have gravity that trends toward infinity. So, ask yourself, if the science behind black holes and spacetime is so factual and stable, why does Kip Thorne sound like he is just making up stuff for fun? Shouldn’t he have some scientific integrity? Something is up with black holes and spacetime, people.

Here is a competing theory which may address some of your spacetime issues.



The past and future co-exist within spacetime as per Einstein.

We have an illusion that the past has occurred and the future is to come.

Sometimes I wonder if ATS should have a new topic such as Reality or Illusion.

Thanks for the video! a reply to: quintessentone

originally posted by: wiredcerebellum
Thanks for the video! a reply to: quintessentone

Your space.com hyperlink isn't working.

In your personal video you bring up excellent points about black holes and spacetime. Nothing makes any sense does it?

The "black holes" are Planck Stars with no need for infinity .
Some Planck Stars do spin at the speed of light.
However , the space/time fabric is not affected outside of the Event Horizon.

Now you know.
And knowing is half the battle .

originally posted by: Gothmog
The "black holes" are Planck Stars with no need for infinity .
Some Planck Stars do spin at the speed of light.
However , the space/time fabric is not affected outside of the Event Horizon.

Now you know.
And knowing is half the battle .

Are you saying the event horizon compensates for the spinning of the black hole thereby zeroing out any effects on the spacetime fabric?

Absolutely nothing makes sense. And thank you! a reply to: quintessentone

originally posted by: wiredcerebellum
Absolutely nothing makes sense. And thank you! a reply to: quintessentone

All I can say at this point is the more I learn, the more I don't know.

a reply to: quintessentone

Makes you wonder what other features of physics are inaccurate.

originally posted by: wiredcerebellum
a reply to: quintessentone

Makes you wonder what other features of physics are inaccurate.

They don't really claim it's inaccurate rather that they just lack information.

Im OP and I’m claiming it’s inaccurate. a reply to: quintessentone

a reply to: wiredcerebellum
Big "fan" of Carl Sagan here, his way of explaining and calmness, yet excited is what I try to use when I teach others, because I think that is the best way to transfer knowledge.

However, if you use Carl Sagan's famous 1D, 2D, 3D land or have dabbled with the teseract experiment (try it kids love it), you can only admit to yourself that it will never be possible to grasp higher dimensions, unless you personally observed one.

Therefor, your observation about all the theories and explanations are valid. But what is left is speculation unless we find a way to enter a black hole and get the information out unaltered. Carl Sagan was a big speculator too in the regions he didn't know the answers.

Also the science behind black holes is not stable at all, we have never been near one, all we can do is observe the light being swallowed and try to make sense of it via the theories we have.

I get it you are hung up on the way he represents it as factual or knowledge and I understand that.

The 2D stickman can't perceive a 3D world unless parts of that 3D world passes through 2D. In that case, he can perceive just a sliver of the 3D structure. Just like we would only be able to perceive slivers of higher dimensional structures from our 3D point of view.

I agree with you. However I don’t think we would be able to perceive an entire 4D structure called spacetime. a reply to: Bwarefalsprofits

I just think a Nobel prize winner should speak more carefully about science to the public. a reply to: TDDAgain

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Gothmog
The "black holes" are Planck Stars with no need for infinity .
Some Planck Stars do spin at the speed of light.
However , the space/time fabric is not affected outside of the Event Horizon.

Now you know.
And knowing is half the battle .

Are you saying the event horizon compensates for the spinning of the black hole thereby zeroing out any effects on the spacetime fabric?

Not negates, but no more effect than say starlight bends around the sun.

a reply to: wiredcerebellum

Your main flaw is that spacetime is a mathmatical construct used to simplify and explain certain models and theories. It does not exist in the real universe. It only helps explain how certain parts of the universe work.

Much like numbers are not money but number are used to explain the value of money.

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Gothmog
The "black holes" are Planck Stars with no need for infinity .
Some Planck Stars do spin at the speed of light.
However , the space/time fabric is not affected outside of the Event Horizon.

Now you know.
And knowing is half the battle .

Are you saying the event horizon compensates for the spinning of the black hole thereby zeroing out any effects on the spacetime fabric?

Not negates, but no more effect than say starlight bends around the sun.

A whirlpool effect comes to mind.

a reply to: wiredcerebellum

Since I exist in all actual dimensions, I have no problem understanding things in more than three dimensions.

If you cannot, it doesn't mean that everyone is limited the same, because even you live in three spatial dimension and at least one temporal one.



Due to the rotational effect of the collapse of matter (Mach'ian frame-dragging due to Coriolis force), yes, there is extreme time dilation approaching the Swartzchild radius around the singularity, but the speed of rotation is relative to the observer.

Within the rotating spacetime in proximity to the event horizon, the movement would probably seem to be static and due to the compressed 'apparent time' for the outer universe, it would appear to be too rapid to make any observational sense of.

An infalling object would from the outside appear to go slower and slower, and then stop, stuck in time, at the event horizon, and from the perspective of an infalling object, the outer universe would be running faster and faster in time until they could watch the whole future of the universe unfold, if it were possible to survive the tidal forces.

Further 'inwards' of the event horizon, who really knows, because we have no experience or observation of anything like that.

Trippin' black holes. Enjoy. Recent James Webb Just Discovered the True Scale of Black Holes.



I was planning to post a video of logic of ten dimensions, but it gave me a headache.