A Lesser One is Greater Than He

Salutations ATSers on this fine day. It is good to be awake and to breath and to move, what a privilege As my wife always says, "Be happy for today." May you have peace! And may God be praised for the life we possess.

Recently I authored a thread on Going to Heaven. In it I had good discussions with a variety of members on ATS who expressed their understanding, and asked questions. Actually looking through my threads webpage this is the thread with the most posts in it, and one of the most recent. It definitely reveals the spiritual-mindedness of many members of ATS. And Jesus said:

"“Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need."-Matthew 5:3.

I know this goes without saying, but to someone that may come across this and doesn't believe in God, this is really a proof of his existence. That is, the innate need for spirituality in a human. Although the Bible reveals to us God is an invisible spirit being and we are not able to see him, we still perceive that he exists. So while he did not give his material creation the capacity to see into the realm of existence he resides in, he still gave us the ability to perceive it with our mind's eye, and peer into it with eyes of discernment. If God did not exist a man or woman would not be able to peer into that invisible realm with our mind. We would be like the animals, as the human-degrading theory of evolution teaches. And there would be no reason and no desire to seek commune with the Almighty.

In that previous thread we were asked to imagine how Jesus' apostles perceived Jesus' arrival on earth. They were assuming that his kingdom was earthly and that he was going to set up his kingdom rule over Israel and free them from the Roman yolk of subjugation their God Jehovah allowed over them. Even after Jesus was resurrected they wanted to know if he was going to restore the kingdom to Israel at that time:

"So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?"-Acts 1:6. They still had much to learn. And as the promised holy spirit was sent to the newly formed Christian congregation after Jesus returned to heaven, it helped them to bring back to mind Jesus' words, and reveal to them sacred secrets pertaining to the kingdom of God hidden in long-lasting times in Jesus Christ.

Let the discerning reader delve with me a little deeper into these things now. The words in the title of this OP refer to Jesus' reference to John the Baptist. He said that no other man born of a woman was greater than he was. That is a very great honor to have indeed. Nevertheless, that a lesser in the kingdom is greater than he:

"Truly I say to you, among those born of women, there has not been raised up anyone greater than John the Baptist, but a lesser person in the Kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is."-Matthew 11:11.

Humans give much credence to a person's stature, the way he presents himself, the eloquence with which he speaks, the position they hold in the world, the power they wield, perhaps their wealth, their pride, their talents. John the Baptist had none of this. He was a prophet that dwelt in the wilderness. He wore camel's hair, and a leather belt around his waist. A solitary man who ate honey and crickets one declaring to the Jews the coming of the Messiah, to prepare the way of Jehovah. Make his roads straight!

"“A voice of one calling out in the wilderness: ‘Prepare the way of Jehovah! Make his roads straight.’Now John was clothed with camel’s hair and had a leather belt around his waist. His food was locusts and wild honey. "-Matthew 3:3, 4.

God does not view a human the way other human's do. For a man judges based on the outward appearance, but God sees what the heart is:

“Do not pay attention to his appearance and how tall he is, for I have rejected him. For the way man sees is not the way God sees, because mere man sees what appears to the eyes, but Jehovah sees into the heart.”- 1 Samuel 16:7.

Perhaps to an undiscerning mind John the Baptist was merely a demon-crazed man wandering in the wilderness. But to God there was no man greater who had ever been born of a woman. Yet, Jesus said that the lesser in the kingdom was greater than he. After he explains this fact he says:

"From the days of John the Baptist until now, the Kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it. "-Matthew 11:12.

Jesus traveled preaching about the good news (gospel) of the Kingdom, and told his followers to pray for it to come and have its will done on earth as in the heaven.-Matthew 6:10.

Jesus said that from the days of John the Baptist onward the Kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press. In the previous thread about going to heaven we were helped to see that before Jesus' coming to earth Jehovah God had not spoken of a heavenly hope to his people. There is no mention of it in the Hebrew scriptures. And no Jew before Jesus had the hope or the thought to go to heaven. But this "sacred secret" or mystery was being revealed in Jesus Christ. That God had decided in his good pleasure for an administration to bring all things together again, things on the heaven and on the earth to break apart the works of the Devil, and bring about the salvation of the human race. And this will be done by means of God's heavenly kingdom that he has established with his only-begotten son Jesus Christ as the king.

May the gentle reader please ponder this wonderful sacred secret of God. Jehovah does not need a kingdom. Jehovah needs nothing. But he decided in his good pleasure, just as he allowed Satan the Devil to rule the world, to establish a righteous government in heaven that will break apart the works of the Devil and bring humanity back to perfection of life on earth.

Now the apostles of Jesus' were narrow-minded in their thinking. They imagined the kingdom would only be in Israel. But God had something far grandeur in mind. Jesus was to return to heaven and sit patiently at God's right hand until it was time and then he would be appointed king of God's kingdom and would ride forth in the cause of justice and right. Jesus' kingship is in heaven, his kingdom is in heaven. And all human rulership is in opposition to our Lord and the Savior of the human race.

This kingdom will come to earth and establish a government of peace over all the earth. It will clash with and do away with all human rule and destroy all wicked humanity alive at that time. It will reign over the earth for 1,000 years. It will do away with all humankind's problems. It will make wars cease to the ends of the earth. It will bring an end to poverty. It will put an end to sickness and sorrow and pain and death forever. It will resurrect the majority of all humankind who has ever lived to a paradise here on earth, both righteous people and unrighteous.

Truly by means of God's kingdom everyone who has ever lived has the opportunity to be blessed. And Jesus said that from the time of John the Baptist until now that is what men are pressing for. Before Jesus came to earth the opportunity to go to heaven and rule with Jesus was never opened. Jesus told his apostles they would sit on thrones to rule with him over the 12 tribes of Israel. They did not understand this was an illustrative means of telling them they would reign with him from heaven over the earth.

To explain, Israel had 13 tribes. 12 tribes had a land inheritance, the priestly tribe, the tribe of Levi did not have a land inheritance. For she represented the anointed Christian congregation and they do not receive the hope to live on earth forever. Rather they are to reign in heaven with Jesus Christ over the earth, the "12-tribes". The hope of going to heaven is only given to the 144,000 who are called to reign with Jesus Christ in his kingdom over all the earth for the 1,000 years.

That is why Jesus said that a lesser in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than John the Baptist. The hope did not open up to humanity for heavenly life until Jesus Christ died and went to heaven, opening the way for others to follow him. Jesus said you cannot enter into the kingdom unless you are "born again" or born from above. This spirit anointing did not occur until 50 days after Jesus returned to heaven and offered up his human sacrifice at the alter in Jehovah's heavenly temple for all humankind that exercise faith in it. On Pentecost 33 C. E. he poured out holy spirit on 120 of his disciples anointing them with holy spirit, and these became the first spirit-begotten children of God, adopted brothers of Christ.

That is why Jesus said, when he returns in this time of the end to judge the nations as sheep and goats the way a person is going to be judged is the way they treated his brothers, even the very least of them:

“Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you received me hospitably; 36 naked and you clothed me. I fell sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’-Matthew 25:34-40.

Who are Jesus' brothers? They are the adopted 144,000 anointed to reign in heaven with Jesus Christ in heaven over the earth for the 1,000 years. There are yet remaining over 20,000 spirit-begotten sons of God, brothers of Christ among the Christian congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses.

The way a person deals with these brothers of Christ, the very least of them. When Jesus returns, he will judge them either worthy of life, or worthy of everlasting destruction.

Many foolishly image that mistreating Jehovah's Witnesses, especially God's spirit-begotten sons, is a good thing for some reason. But Jesus warns them:

“Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels. For I became hungry, but you gave me nothing to eat; and I was thirsty, but you gave me nothing to drink. I was a stranger, but you did not receive me hospitably; naked, but you did not clothe me; sick and in prison, but you did not look after me.’ Then they too will answer with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to you?’ Then he will answer them, saying: ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of these least ones, you did not do it to me.’ These will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”

These humble and righteous humans who have the anointing of holy spirit, and the token of their crowns in heaven may outwardly appear as John the Baptist did, wanderers and fools. But the least of them is greater than the greatest human. And the way you deal with them and treat them, is the way Jesus Christ will deal with you and treat you. For the way you treat them, Jesus considers it as if you were dealing with himself personally. He is a nice brother to have.

The hope of humanity is Jesus Christ and the 144,000.

The kingdom rule of Jesus Christ is future. In the very near future. The heavenly hope is only for a very small elect group of humanity. The majority of all humankind who has ever lived will be resurrected in God's kingdom over the earth. And good and righteous and meek humankind will live with everlasting life forever on a paradise earth:

"The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it."-Psalm 37:29.

"Happy are the mild-tempered, since they will inherit the earth."-Matthew 5:5.



In the last days the God of heaven will establish a kingdom in heaven (Jesus' rulership with the 144,00) it will come and crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, earthly governments, and establish the righteous government of peace over all the earth. Wherein all humanity who has ever lived will benefit and be brought back to perfection of life, all those who partake freely of the refreshing water flowing forth from the heavenly throne above to the curation of the nations.

"In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever."-Daniel 2:44.

"And the spirit and the bride keep on saying, “Come!” and let anyone hearing say, “Come!” and let anyone thirsting come; let anyone who wishes take life’s water free."-Revelation 22:17.

This again.....

Is Jesus God. A simple question for you.

originally posted by: Joneselius
This again.....

Is Jesus God. A simple question for you.

If you asked Jesus what would he have answered?

Jesus said:

"Do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?"-John 10:36.

If you asked Jesus if he was equal to God what would he respond:

"You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am. "-John 14:28.

If you asked Jesus if he had a God and Father what would he have replied?

"Jesus said to her: 'Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.'"-John 20:17.

So Jesus said he is "God's son." Jesus said the Father is greater than he is. Jesus said that Mary's (Mather's sister) God and Father was his God and Father.

You can throw out doctrine and dogma. Jesus very matter-of-factually, in very easy to understand language even to a 5-year-old, said he is God's son, and that his Father and God is greater than he is.

But he decided in his good pleasure, just as he allowed Satan the Devil to rule the world, to establish a righteous government in heaven that will break apart the works of the Devil and bring humanity back to perfection of life on earth.

The Father needed the evil one to rule the world in order to establish a righteous government in heaven? Wow.

originally posted by: Joneselius
This again.....

Is Jesus God. A simple question for you.

He's of the Father, given all authority over earth, our new landlord so to speak.

originally posted by: Cwantas

But he decided in his good pleasure, just as he allowed Satan the Devil to rule the world, to establish a righteous government in heaven that will break apart the works of the Devil and bring humanity back to perfection of life on earth.

The Father needed the evil one to rule the world in order to establish a righteous government in heaven? Wow.

You misquoted and twisted that. In fact here is the full quote from the OP:

May the gentle reader please ponder this wonderful sacred secret of God. Jehovah does not need a kingdom. Jehovah needs nothing. But he decided in his good pleasure, just as he allowed Satan the Devil to rule the world, to establish a righteous government in heaven that will break apart the works of the Devil and bring humanity back to perfection of life on earth.

Interesting from the "Jehovah needs nothing" you got "The Father needed the evil one to rule the world."

How utterly opposite the two opposing statements. And yet your mind twisted the "Jehovah needs nothing" to "the Father needed the evil one to rule the world."

ETA:
On re-reading this I can see how you missed the commas and mistakenly took that to mean something else.

Hmm, perhaps it should be worded a little differently:

Just as Jehovah allowed Satan to rule the earth, although he doesn't need anything, he has decided in his good pleasure for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times to brings all things together again, the things in the heaven and the things on the earth, by means of Jesus' kingdom rule for 1,000 years over the earth. For this is the way God was pleased to do.

Not that he was pleased that Satan rebelled or sinned or brought evil into his universe. But he saw fit to undo the works of the Devil by means of Jesus' kingdom rule set up in heaven. Jehovah God always works through Jesus to accomplish his goodwill. Although he need not do that, in fact he needs nothing at all. He didn't even need to make the heavens and the earth to begin with.

"It is according to his good pleasure that he himself purposed for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times, to gather all things together in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth."-Ephesians 1:9-10.

originally posted by: randomuser

originally posted by: Cwantas

But he decided in his good pleasure, just as he allowed Satan the Devil to rule the world, to establish a righteous government in heaven that will break apart the works of the Devil and bring humanity back to perfection of life on earth.

The Father needed the evil one to rule the world in order to establish a righteous government in heaven? Wow.

You misquoted and twisted that. In fact here is the full quote from the OP:

May the gentle reader please ponder this wonderful sacred secret of God. Jehovah does not need a kingdom. Jehovah needs nothing. But he decided in his good pleasure, just as he allowed Satan the Devil to rule the world, to establish a righteous government in heaven that will break apart the works of the Devil and bring humanity back to perfection of life on earth.

Interesting from the "Jehovah needs nothing" you got "The Father needed the evil one to rule the world."

How utterly opposite the two opposing statements. And yet your mind twisted the "Jehovah needs nothing" to "the Father needed the evil one to rule the world."

ETA:
On re-reading this I can see how you missed the commas and mistakenly took that to mean something else.

Hmm, perhaps it should be worded a little differently:

Just as Jehovah allowed Satan to rule the earth, although he doesn't need anything, he has decided in his good pleasure for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times to brings all things together again, the things in the heaven and the things on the earth, by means of Jesus' kingdom rule for 1,000 years over the earth. For this is the way God was pleased to do.

Not that he was pleased that Satan rebelled or sinned or brought evil into his universe. But he saw fit to undo the works of the Devil by means of Jesus' kingdom rule set up in heaven. Jehovah God always works through Jesus to accomplish his goodwill. Although he need not do that, in fact he needs nothing at all. He didn't even need to make the heavens and the earth to begin with.

"It is according to his good pleasure that he himself purposed for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times, to gather all things together in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth."-Ephesians 1:9-10.

So how do you logically explain the evil one's role here on earth, yes you're right God needs nothing from anything so why give the evil one rule here?

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: randomuser

originally posted by: Cwantas

But he decided in his good pleasure, just as he allowed Satan the Devil to rule the world, to establish a righteous government in heaven that will break apart the works of the Devil and bring humanity back to perfection of life on earth.

The Father needed the evil one to rule the world in order to establish a righteous government in heaven? Wow.

You misquoted and twisted that. In fact here is the full quote from the OP:

May the gentle reader please ponder this wonderful sacred secret of God. Jehovah does not need a kingdom. Jehovah needs nothing. But he decided in his good pleasure, just as he allowed Satan the Devil to rule the world, to establish a righteous government in heaven that will break apart the works of the Devil and bring humanity back to perfection of life on earth.

Interesting from the "Jehovah needs nothing" you got "The Father needed the evil one to rule the world."

How utterly opposite the two opposing statements. And yet your mind twisted the "Jehovah needs nothing" to "the Father needed the evil one to rule the world."

ETA:
On re-reading this I can see how you missed the commas and mistakenly took that to mean something else.

Hmm, perhaps it should be worded a little differently:

Just as Jehovah allowed Satan to rule the earth, although he doesn't need anything, he has decided in his good pleasure for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times to brings all things together again, the things in the heaven and the things on the earth, by means of Jesus' kingdom rule for 1,000 years over the earth. For this is the way God was pleased to do.

Not that he was pleased that Satan rebelled or sinned or brought evil into his universe. But he saw fit to undo the works of the Devil by means of Jesus' kingdom rule set up in heaven. Jehovah God always works through Jesus to accomplish his goodwill. Although he need not do that, in fact he needs nothing at all. He didn't even need to make the heavens and the earth to begin with.

"It is according to his good pleasure that he himself purposed for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times, to gather all things together in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth."-Ephesians 1:9-10.

So how do you logically explain the evil one's role here on earth, yes you're right God needs nothing from anything so why give the evil one rule here?

A fair question indeed. The answer has to do with freewill. The angels, including the one that made himself into Satan the Devil, were created free moral agents, with the ability to choose to do right or do wrong. The first human pair were as well. If the angels and humans were not created with freewill they would have been robots. Like an AI programmed to do what it was designed to do without feeling, without emotion. But we were created in God's image, with godly qualities. We are able to love. And so are the angels. It is not possible to express love without freewill. Because forced love is not love at all. So God does not force any of his free moral agents to do anything. Rather he created the angels and humankind with imputed righteousness and set limits on their behavior telling them what was good and bad. Satan chose to rebel and do evil by lying to Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve choose to rebel. All of them chose to abuse the freewill that was given them, which was really given us to express love freely to Jehovah God.

Now Jehovah could have destroyed Satan and Adam and Eve. But what would he have proved? Yes, that he is stronger. But was God's power really being brought into question by Satan the Devil? He called God a liar. And brought into question Jehovah's goodness and his right to rule.

The only way God could answer that question was to allow the rebellion to take its full course. This is a precedent that will go down into all eternity. Now that Satan has been proven a liar, and man-rule independent of God a total failure, God will fix things his way by means of the kingdom government in Jesus' hands. After the 1,000 years Jesus will subject himself to his Father and return to rule to Jehovah.

Then the precedent will have been set, and never again will the challenge of God's right to rule ever again allowed to be made for it will have been answered for all times here on earth. That is why God allowed the rebellion and sin and suffering for but a little while.

originally posted by: randomuser

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: randomuser

originally posted by: Cwantas

But he decided in his good pleasure, just as he allowed Satan the Devil to rule the world, to establish a righteous government in heaven that will break apart the works of the Devil and bring humanity back to perfection of life on earth.

The Father needed the evil one to rule the world in order to establish a righteous government in heaven? Wow.

You misquoted and twisted that. In fact here is the full quote from the OP:

May the gentle reader please ponder this wonderful sacred secret of God. Jehovah does not need a kingdom. Jehovah needs nothing. But he decided in his good pleasure, just as he allowed Satan the Devil to rule the world, to establish a righteous government in heaven that will break apart the works of the Devil and bring humanity back to perfection of life on earth.

Interesting from the "Jehovah needs nothing" you got "The Father needed the evil one to rule the world."

How utterly opposite the two opposing statements. And yet your mind twisted the "Jehovah needs nothing" to "the Father needed the evil one to rule the world."

ETA:
On re-reading this I can see how you missed the commas and mistakenly took that to mean something else.

Hmm, perhaps it should be worded a little differently:

Just as Jehovah allowed Satan to rule the earth, although he doesn't need anything, he has decided in his good pleasure for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times to brings all things together again, the things in the heaven and the things on the earth, by means of Jesus' kingdom rule for 1,000 years over the earth. For this is the way God was pleased to do.

Not that he was pleased that Satan rebelled or sinned or brought evil into his universe. But he saw fit to undo the works of the Devil by means of Jesus' kingdom rule set up in heaven. Jehovah God always works through Jesus to accomplish his goodwill. Although he need not do that, in fact he needs nothing at all. He didn't even need to make the heavens and the earth to begin with.

"It is according to his good pleasure that he himself purposed for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times, to gather all things together in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth."-Ephesians 1:9-10.

So how do you logically explain the evil one's role here on earth, yes you're right God needs nothing from anything so why give the evil one rule here?

A fair question indeed. The answer has to do with freewill. The angels, including the one that made himself into Satan the Devilm were created free moral agents, with the ability to choose to do right or do wrong. The first human pair were as well. If the angels and humans were not created with freewill they would have been robots. Like an AI programmed to do what it was designed to do without feeling, without emotion. But we were created in God's image, with godly qualities. We are able to love. And so are the angels. It is not possible to express love without freewill. Because forced love is not love at all. So God does not force any of his free moral agents to do anything. Rather he created the angels and humankind with imputed righteousness and set limits on their behavior telling them what was good and bad. Satan chose to rebel and do evil by lying to Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve choose to rebel. All of them chose to abuse the freewill that was given them, which was really given us to express love freely to Jehovah God.

Now Jehovah could have destroyed Satan and Adam and Eve. But what would he have proved? Yes, that he is stronger. But was God's power really being brought into question by Satan the Devil? He called God a liar. And brought into question Jehovah's goodness and his right to rule.

The only way God could answer that question was to allow the rebellion to take its full course. This is a precedent that will go down into all eternity. Now that Satan has been proven a liar, and man-rule independent of God a total failure, God will fix things his way by means of the kingdom government in Jesus' hands. After the 1,000 years Jesus will subject himself to his Father and return to rule to Jehovah.

Then the precedent will have been set, and never again will the challenge of God's right to rule ever again allowed to be made for it will have been answered for all times here on earth. That is why God allowed the rebellion and sin and suffering for but a little while.

But look at us, how easy it is for us to be led astray, like moths to a flame our design is such that even ordinary men with sociopathic tendencies can lead us in the wrong direction, hence the world we live in today and throughout our history, and there is no truth here because of this.

All the innocent children throughout our history and more so today experiencing terror beyond belief, the suffering and misery it has caused every man woman and child that ever lived.

Angels come into existence fully formed, we grow from nothing knowing nothing in this place, a place ruled over by a lying murderer, and because of this truth has to found, it's never handed to us, If God can't prevent terror beyond belief that our children "our most innocent" are subjected too here then how do you suppose He guarantees truth?

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: randomuser

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: randomuser

originally posted by: Cwantas

But he decided in his good pleasure, just as he allowed Satan the Devil to rule the world, to establish a righteous government in heaven that will break apart the works of the Devil and bring humanity back to perfection of life on earth.

The Father needed the evil one to rule the world in order to establish a righteous government in heaven? Wow.

You misquoted and twisted that. In fact here is the full quote from the OP:

May the gentle reader please ponder this wonderful sacred secret of God. Jehovah does not need a kingdom. Jehovah needs nothing. But he decided in his good pleasure, just as he allowed Satan the Devil to rule the world, to establish a righteous government in heaven that will break apart the works of the Devil and bring humanity back to perfection of life on earth.

Interesting from the "Jehovah needs nothing" you got "The Father needed the evil one to rule the world."

How utterly opposite the two opposing statements. And yet your mind twisted the "Jehovah needs nothing" to "the Father needed the evil one to rule the world."

ETA:
On re-reading this I can see how you missed the commas and mistakenly took that to mean something else.

Hmm, perhaps it should be worded a little differently:

Just as Jehovah allowed Satan to rule the earth, although he doesn't need anything, he has decided in his good pleasure for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times to brings all things together again, the things in the heaven and the things on the earth, by means of Jesus' kingdom rule for 1,000 years over the earth. For this is the way God was pleased to do.

Not that he was pleased that Satan rebelled or sinned or brought evil into his universe. But he saw fit to undo the works of the Devil by means of Jesus' kingdom rule set up in heaven. Jehovah God always works through Jesus to accomplish his goodwill. Although he need not do that, in fact he needs nothing at all. He didn't even need to make the heavens and the earth to begin with.

"It is according to his good pleasure that he himself purposed for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times, to gather all things together in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth."-Ephesians 1:9-10.

So how do you logically explain the evil one's role here on earth, yes you're right God needs nothing from anything so why give the evil one rule here?

A fair question indeed. The answer has to do with freewill. The angels, including the one that made himself into Satan the Devilm were created free moral agents, with the ability to choose to do right or do wrong. The first human pair were as well. If the angels and humans were not created with freewill they would have been robots. Like an AI programmed to do what it was designed to do without feeling, without emotion. But we were created in God's image, with godly qualities. We are able to love. And so are the angels. It is not possible to express love without freewill. Because forced love is not love at all. So God does not force any of his free moral agents to do anything. Rather he created the angels and humankind with imputed righteousness and set limits on their behavior telling them what was good and bad. Satan chose to rebel and do evil by lying to Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve choose to rebel. All of them chose to abuse the freewill that was given them, which was really given us to express love freely to Jehovah God.

Now Jehovah could have destroyed Satan and Adam and Eve. But what would he have proved? Yes, that he is stronger. But was God's power really being brought into question by Satan the Devil? He called God a liar. And brought into question Jehovah's goodness and his right to rule.

The only way God could answer that question was to allow the rebellion to take its full course. This is a precedent that will go down into all eternity. Now that Satan has been proven a liar, and man-rule independent of God a total failure, God will fix things his way by means of the kingdom government in Jesus' hands. After the 1,000 years Jesus will subject himself to his Father and return to rule to Jehovah.

Then the precedent will have been set, and never again will the challenge of God's right to rule ever again allowed to be made for it will have been answered for all times here on earth. That is why God allowed the rebellion and sin and suffering for but a little while.

But look at us, how easy it is for us to be led astray, like moths to a flame our design is such that even ordinary men with sociopathic tendencies can lead us in the wrong direction, hence the world we live in today and throughout our history, and there is no truth here because of this.

All the innocent children throughout our history and more so today experiencing terror beyond belief, the suffering and misery it has caused every man woman and child that ever lived.

Angels come into existence fully formed, we grow from nothing knowing nothing in this place, a place ruled over by a lying murderer, and because of this truth has to found, it's never handed to us, If God can't prevent terror beyond belief that our children "our most innocent" are subjected too here then how do you suppose He guarantees truth?

God can and will prevent terror. And he promises to undo all the evil, and even the misleading that is going on. Romans put it this way:

"For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but through the one who subjected it, on the basis of hope that the creation itself will also be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God. For we know that all creation keeps on groaning together and being in pain together until now."-Romans 8:20-22.

The creation referred to here is humanity. We know that because it says it will be set free to corruption, that is sin and death.

So God subjected creation to futility, that is he subjected humankind to sin and death, on the basis of hope. He did, as you say, allow sin into the world, but he did so with the promise of the Genesis 3:15 which is the basis of our hope. That by means of the offspring of the woman he will bring to nothing the works of the Devil.

And still the light is in the world. Satan cannot put it out. And those who have God's truth shine like the face of Moses when he came down from the holy mountain:

"And all of us, while we with unveiled faces reflect like mirrors the glory of Jehovah, are transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another, exactly as it is done by Jehovah the Spirit."-2 Corinthians 3:18.

This is the light that shines in the world. That Jehovah is love. And he did not leave himself without witness in that he does good giving us rains from heaven and satisfying us with food:

"Although he did not leave himself without witness in that he did good, giving you rains from heaven and fruitful seasons, satisfying you with food and filling your hearts with gladness.”-Acts 14:17.

If he did not care you would not get the answers you are receiving.

a reply to: randomuser

I know this goes without saying, but to someone that may come across this and doesn't believe in God, this is really a proof of his existence. That is, the innate need for spirituality in a human. Although the Bible reveals to us God is an invisible spirit being and we are not able to see him, we still perceive that he exists. So while he did not give his material creation the capacity to see into the realm of existence he resides in, he still gave us the ability to perceive it with our mind's eye, and peer into it with eyes of discernment. If God did not exist a man or woman would not be able to peer into that invisible realm with our mind.

I see that a little differently. God exists in the minds those who believe He does, yet we know man has an infinite ability to create a false mental reality.

We grow up with parents that (hopefully) protect and nurture us, and as adults it seems we transfer that responsibility to a Higher being. I see many people relying on God as 'parent figure'; not saying that's a bad thing, but it does seem to absolve them from taking responsibility for their lives and actions in many cases.

Just as with parents, we ignore their advice and go about doing the things that bring us pleasure until we get ourselves in a bind; then we run to Father God to 'save' us from ourselves.

Of course he will, because he's our Father and fathers protect their children, even when they knowingly and willingly break the rules.

It just seems like a transfer of responsibility to me. We choose to believe in a Higher Deity that will save us from ourselves, and all we have to do is convince ourselves that everything we've been taught about religion is true.

That creates another problem; which religion? They're all willing to claim that only their beliefs are founded in fact, when the known history of planet earth says otherwise.

Do we truly have a God, or do we convince ourselves we do then becomes the question.

Thinking this life is all there is becomes uncomfortable without a belief in the hereafter, and the reward system proffered by the Bible offers hope for those who choose to believe.....but it's still a choice, no matter how you define it.

Belief in a Creator goes back long before the Biblical story of Adam and Eve. Once you get past the notion that the Bible chronicals the beginning, a whole new rabbit hole opens up.

a reply to: randomuser

How do you make a connection with the god of the old testament encouraging the stoning to death of men, women and whole families and Christ preaching forgiveness and love?

I'm not being pedantic, I'm honestly completely confused by this.

originally posted by: Cwantas
a reply to: randomuser

How do you make a connection with the god of the old testament encouraging the stoning to death of men, women and whole families and Christ preaching forgiveness and love?

I'm not being pedantic, I'm honestly completely confused by this.

The God of the Old Testament is still the same God, he does not change. I think the difference you see is that he was dealing directly with the nation of Israel as a people who dedicated themselves to him. The entire world is ruled by Satan. But the nation of Israel was distinct in that the line of David represented Jehovah's throne on earth. And before the kings, Jehovah himself ruled Israel.

In the future paradise earth new rolls will be open and we don't know what it will be like, but certainly there will still be law and order to follow. Prophecy says that at that time although a person is 100 years old, and yet still young, if they sin they will die:

"No more will there be an infant from that place who lives but a few days, Nor an old man who fails to live out his days. For anyone who dies at a hundred will be considered a mere boy, And the sinner will be cursed, even though he is a hundred years of age."-Isaiah 65:20.

We cannot always know why God does a certain thing, and he has no reason to explain himself to us. He is God. We do know that what he does is always righteous and just, and tempered with mercy and love. Many of the things that happened to the nation of Israel were left as a warning example for us who live today and read about it:

"For all the things that were written beforehand were written for our instruction, so that through our endurance and through the comfort from the Scriptures we might have hope."-Romans 15:4.

Yet in the Hebrew scriptures you see the same God pardoning error and forgiving sins all the time just as in the Greek scriptures:

"Should I not also feel sorry for Ninʹe·veh the great city, in which there are more than 120,000 men who do not even know right from wrong, as well as their many animals?-Jonah 4:11.

“‘For I do not take any delight in the death of someone dying,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. ‘So cause a turning back and keep living, O YOU people.’”-Ezekiel 18:32.

) “Come, now, and let us set matters straight between us,” says Jehovah. “Though your sins are like scarlet, They will be made as white as snow; Though they are as red as crimson cloth, They will become like wool."-Isaiah 1:18.

"Jehovah was passing before him and declaring: “Jehovah, Jehovah, a God merciful and compassionate, slow to anger and abundant in loyal love and truth, 7 showing loyal love to thousands, pardoning error and transgression and sin, but he will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons and upon grandsons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation.”-Exodus 34:6-7.

I think people who have a distorted view of God may read certain Bible accounts and view him as a harsh, demanding God. And certainly the depiction of God as evil and vindictive that burns people forever for a momentary life of sins does not help. It is perhaps these cruel and evil doctrines of the Churches of Christendom that have lead men to mistakenly believe that it was better to burn people alive at the stake than to let them be burned forever by their evil and cruel God who does not exist. What utter filth the adherents of Christendom have their minds filled with by their clergy, such disgusting teachings of demons.

originally posted by: nugget1
a reply to: randomuser

I know this goes without saying, but to someone that may come across this and doesn't believe in God, this is really a proof of his existence. That is, the innate need for spirituality in a human. Although the Bible reveals to us God is an invisible spirit being and we are not able to see him, we still perceive that he exists. So while he did not give his material creation the capacity to see into the realm of existence he resides in, he still gave us the ability to perceive it with our mind's eye, and peer into it with eyes of discernment. If God did not exist a man or woman would not be able to peer into that invisible realm with our mind.

I see that a little differently. God exists in the minds those who believe He does, yet we know man has an infinite ability to create a false mental reality.

We grow up with parents that (hopefully) protect and nurture us, and as adults it seems we transfer that responsibility to a Higher being. I see many people relying on God as 'parent figure'; not saying that's a bad thing, but it does seem to absolve them from taking responsibility for their lives and actions in many cases.

Just as with parents, we ignore their advice and go about doing the things that bring us pleasure until we get ourselves in a bind; then we run to Father God to 'save' us from ourselves.

Of course he will, because he's our Father and fathers protect their children, even when they knowingly and willingly break the rules.

It just seems like a transfer of responsibility to me. We choose to believe in a Higher Deity that will save us from ourselves, and all we have to do is convince ourselves that everything we've been taught about religion is true.

That creates another problem; which religion? They're all willing to claim that only their beliefs are founded in fact, when the known history of planet earth says otherwise.

Do we truly have a God, or do we convince ourselves we do then becomes the question.

Thinking this life is all there is becomes uncomfortable without a belief in the hereafter, and the reward system proffered by the Bible offers hope for those who choose to believe.....but it's still a choice, no matter how you define it.

Belief in a Creator goes back long before the Biblical story of Adam and Eve. Once you get past the notion that the Bible chronicals the beginning, a whole new rabbit hole opens up.

I fail to make the connection with the animals here. Do animals transfer their parent relationship to God in heaven? Are animals able to discern the invisible spirit realm? Do animals perceive the existence of God? Because according to the theory of evolution man is an animal. And such an innate part of us would be unnecessary if God did not exist as it would not further the survival of the species. Neither would the ability to calculate out mathematics in formulas that make space flight possible to the planets in our solar system. The appreciation of the arts and music is also not explained by survival of the fittest. All of these things that separate us from the animals are unnecessary, and by necessity not possible if God did not exist.

Of course Jesus made the exception that not everyone realizes the spiritual need that is just as important as eating or drinking. That is why he said happy is the man that is conscience of that need. Too many are filled with an empty void they try and fulfill by pursuing dead-end careers, looking for the approval of others in this world, in the pursuit of money to find happiness, prestige, power, immorality, drugs, drunkenness. I believe a lot of this is the person trying to fill the emptiness they as a creation have without their Creator. Instead of seeking their Creator, they turn to mere mundane vices to give them temporary pleasure. But that ultimately leaves them scared, abused, and hopeless. And thus we have a world filled with people chasing after the wind in a hopeless search for fulfillment and happiness that can only be found in serving God.

So many words from you, all meaningless, and Jesus would say exactly what he said to the RELIGIOUS leaders "Before Abraham was, I AM.

Also 1 John.
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

Jesus IS the word of God. Also, one of the names of the father is 'the father of lights" in James.

You've deceived yourself and you deny the son. You're lost. You're also mistaking yourself for a tribulation Saint! Man alive......

Nowhere in that verse does it call the word a 'man', nowhere. Because God took on the FORM of a man, like the angels do.
In the a reply to: randomuser

a reply to: randomuser

Instead of seeking their Creator, they turn to mere mundane vices to give them temporary pleasure. But that ultimately leaves them scared, abused, and hopeless. And thus we have a world filled with people chasing after the wind in a hopeless search for fulfillment and happiness that can only be found in serving God.

I won't disagree with you, but will say there are other ways to view the Creator than from the many different established religious views.

Some think a relationship with the Almighty has perhaps been corrupted with the almighty collection plate. If one wants to follow Jesus example and teachings the last place that comes to my mind is the opulent churches that profess to be doing his works.

One day science may discover that even though animals aren't able to communicate they may actually be more sentient than we realize. Of course, that goes against the relatively new Biblical philosophy which we should take as gospel because....why again?

Believing in a Supreme Being and the hereafter is a choice ,a personal choice, no matter how you cut it.

The world is full of people who want to push their choices on others. In order to make that work thousands of years of history have to deliberately be ignored.

originally posted by: Cwantas
a reply to: randomuser

How do you make a connection with the god of the old testament encouraging the stoning to death of men, women and whole families and Christ preaching forgiveness and love?

I'm not being pedantic, I'm honestly completely confused by this.

Another thing to note is the deeds being done by the People in many of the cities, murdering their children by burning to their gods.
We know demons can be in animals, look at the story of the pigs.
God does nothing without a reason, theses places could have been totally contaminated by Nephilim, by demons that needed to be removed or they would contaminate Gods People.

We see these things coming back in our day, open lack and open flaunting of immorality and filthy deeds and the worship of idols and Satan.

a reply to: nugget1

So true we always have choice!
I note how many Scientists are now saying we are indeed made not evolved. The more they learn the less they can continue in that old story. Look up some there are many many of them now telling their stories.