Are we the actual top of the food chain? Maybe not.

With all the advances humans have made, especially in space travel, we should have become advanced enough to be the apex predator of at least the Earth's orbit and soon the Moon once we get a permanent base up there.

originally posted by: VulcanWerks
So we remain the apex predator - bar none - as we could eradicate any species on the planet if we so chose, which includes ourselves.

I think I understand what you mean, but I also think you are using the wrong words to say it.

No, we are not the apex predator, we are not even predators in the animal sense of the word.

Yes, we are (supposedly) more intelligent and have opposable thumbs, and both of those gave us access to technology, which other animals do not have, but are still not predators.

You have to expand the definition of “top of the food chain” and realize our ability to use tools is also natural. We evolved beyond physical stature being the determining factor of how the hierarchy plays out in practice.

I think you are the one that should use a different expression instead of trying to force an existing expression with a specific meaning to mean what you want it to mean.

originally posted by: VulcanWerks
So you don’t define the “food chain” as the ability to kill other life forms at will, if you so choose?

I do not.

"Food chain" is the link between who eats who in a natural environment, it's not a measure of power.

Yes, we have (arguably) the power to kill all life forms on Earth, but that does not make us a predator. In a natural environment we would still be somewhere close to the top of the food chain, as we eat other animals, but not at the top, as there are other animals that eat us.

a reply to: ArMaP --- at the top of Earth's food chain, the new set of problems include how to avoid the bioconcentration and biomagnification of environmental radioactivity (the global residue from above-ground nuclear bomb testing in the 20th century) in human foods. The US National Academy of Sciences has some hard data on that, but it's apparently still restricted data ... I got a "read this" warning I had to agree to before they would let me read the related science reports.

a reply to: ArMaP

we would still be somewhere close to the top of the food chain, as we eat other animals, but not at the top, as there are other animals that eat us.

But the ratios are very one-sided. I would say 99.99999 to 0.00001 in humans' favor.

a reply to: VulcanWerks

I don't really worry about bears and sharks. Where I'm at are black bears.
They are basically the temperament of dogs. You can scare them off.
Brown Bears are a different temperament.

Sharks also not so frighting. They are fish. They can also bite you in half.

I have much more concern about a pack of Coyotes or a wild cat, or a pack of boar.

Your bravado is a great tell me you are a city kid without telling me you are a city kid.

We are no where close to being an apex predator on this planet. Regardless of the tools and intelligence we possess.

a reply to: Gothmog

Good for you. I hope you were properly permitted for the hunt.
My encounters, were on the job and I did not have the permits. I just had Bears walk into the job site.
When you have a team of 10 you are responsible for, you do what you can within legal means.

Yes, our ancestors brought down mammoths working as a group. Not one on one. Possible one bloke got a lucky shot one time.

Perhaps I need to re-read the OP.

On a one v one. We are not the apex. Never will be.
There are bigger faster stronger animals out there that not only will eat us, but do eat us.

originally posted by: VulcanWerks
I have a rare Friday night where I have hours to myself. Miss the fam, but, I get to chill uninterrupted. Rare air.

What did I do with this time?

Flipped on an alien/hybrid theory documentary and detailed one of my cars. Cathartic.

But, between that and the other thread I authored tonight (I’m in a posting mood, apparently), the notion of definitions of a word stuck with me into the UFO/UAP/EBE phenomenon.

In the ET/UFO sense, I wondered…

Are we really at the top of the food chain?

Or…

Are we at the top of the food chain we’re aware of?

If the latter… what does that mean?

I thought of this:

There are species that thrive thousands of feet below the ocean surface - it’s full of life. The absolute depths of the ocean have been found to contain life.

It’s pitch black. Crushing pressure.

But, there is a species down there who has no idea what humans or our robots/ROVs are and to them we are 100%. aliens.

Our ROVs are “UFOs” to them. Why? Because they live in a place that humanity can’t get to. There is an apex predator in that land, but, it’s not us.

“You stupid Vulcan, of course we’re the apex predator - remember the ROV?”

Alas, you’re right.

But, we’re the top of the heap because of technology. We can go down, study, observe, sample, abduct, study, and do everything else the “alien phenomenon” does.

And we know we have a massive probability of being able to kill what we find, and if it takes out an ROV and we’re not happy about it, we can mount up and go back to not only kill, but abduct and study, whatever harmed our ROV.

That sounds entirely analogous to UFOs or “aliens” and humans.

The life form we found at a mile down probably will never see a human again. Or an ROV. The ocean is big. But there’s a good chance it made said ocean-bottom-dwelling being have a code brown moment while it was there - particularly when they saw their friend get sucked into this mystical tube of death we call a pipe with suction.

And we didn’t take all of them.

This analogy tells me we have a non-zero probability of not being top of the food chain HERE.

Other life forms don’t know WE are here.

But we’re very much here.

We’ve been told we’re the “top of the food chain” because we are relative to the KNOWN or collectively agreed upon “truth”.

But, if you use my example to open yourself up to the “food chain” as potentially being far, far taller than we know of, it’s conceivable we are NOT at the top of the food chain.

If true we’re not at the top of the “real” food chain - no different than the life form at the depths of the sea that’s the apex there but we could kill if desired - then the UFO phenomenon becomes far more realistic in my mind.

Religion tells us there’s a “god” and that we are “beneath” that god. Otherwise, we’re the top of the food chain.

Those gods form religion, society, teachings, morals, principals, etc.

The importance of said god is they give us balance between being the apex predator, and not becoming the unhinged/hyper-hedonistic/ultimately destructive beings to both each other and the planet that we can turn into.

But to those creatures at the bottom of the ocean - we’re god.

Or at minimum something humanity would consider to be super natural.

We’re certainly not supernatural aliens or gods.

But, whoever is flying those UFOs might be saying the same thing to each other about not being supernatural or “gods”.

If the food chain is taller than we have collectively agreed it to be, then the concept of a carbon based life form or civilization that isn’t from earth is behind piloting these anomalous craft, or taking some humans is 100% a possibility.

Thanks for reading.

I enjoyed your post & mosquitoes are the top of the food chain.

a reply to: randomtangentsrme

More people have eaten bears than bears have people. Same with sharks.

a reply to: filthyphilanthropist

That is a wonderful statistic I would love to see, however unfortunately sharks and bears do not keep notes.

Now for conversation, I will agree with you.

Not every person has eaten lobster, or lamb, or turkey.

That dose not mean they are not eaten every day by individuals.
Do you see how short sided your argument is?

a reply to: VulcanWerks

We've never been at the top of the food chain as there are forces beyond our understanding observing us.

a reply to: randomtangentsrme

Nope.

Not on this subject.

originally posted by: filthyphilanthropist
a reply to: randomtangentsrme

Nope.

Not on this subject.

I get it. You have opinions you have nothing to back it up with and you just nope out of it.

I will leave it up to the user base to decide which of us has a stronger side in this discussion.