Right to Work is Wrong For Union Workers

I saw this news article this morning and thought "what better time to talk about this than Labor Day weekend".

www.foxnews.com...

I will start this out by saying, yes I am in a union, I have been for several years now and I am grateful to have that option to work in a union, even if it is not one of the better ones in my area.

Labor unions are literally building this country, whether its the UAW, Carpenters Unions, Pipe Fitters, Welders, Boiler Makers, Machinist Unions, Police, Teachers, and many more that I can't think of off the top of my head.

When you talk to someone who is in a union, depending on which one and/or which local they belong to, they are proud that they work in a union and will do almost anything to protect that union and all of their brothers and sisters in that union. Even those locals that aren't very good, mine for example (though I will not divulge what one I belong to as I do not see it is necessary for this thread), are proud to be in our respective unions, love the opportunities that are provided to us, care about the work that we do, and enjoy being part of something that has been building America and supporting families for generations.

But, back to the article. Right to work is the antithesis of being in a labor union.

For those that don't know what right to work is, in a nutshell, it is being allowed to be a member of a labor union with all of the benefits and protection, without paying dues to the union. You are awarded the same pay, vacation, PTO, pensions, worker protection, seniority, and everything else that other members pay their monthly dues to keep, without having to pay a cent towards the union.

Right to work will be the death of unions in this country, then what? Are we going to go ahead and ship out the building of all of our cars, trucks, and SUVs over seas? Are we going to ship in cheap labor to build our cities? And yes, before anyone says it, I am well aware that there are companies doing this already. But, we still have hundreds, if not thousands, of companies that are run by unions that would go under without them.

Why are the younger generations, and some of the "older" ones, so hell bent on handouts? Why do we have to pay our dues every month to gain the benefits of our union, but you want to come in and get them all for free? Why not start demanding your insurance company to give you all of the benefits of having your policies, but never paying them a dime. Don't pay your phone bill, and tell them you need to keep your service and see how fast you get laughed out of he building.

Here is an idea, if you don't want to be in a union, go work somewhere that doesn't have one. It's that simple people!! Now, if you want to do that type of work, and you want to reap the benefits of being in a union, pay your dues and don't be a leach. Dues are really not all that expensive, at least for us they aren't, and it's a small price to pay to get those benefits and the sense of pride that comes with being in that organization.

a reply to: PorkChop96

I worked non union in the coal mines and my pay and benefits were better. There were union mines around here and they were forever going on strike for one reason or another.
Guys would lose their homes or cars because of it and had a hard time even keeping food on the table. The union kept saying "we're doing this for you !!"... but they still lost their homes.

If people want to go union, go for it. But it's not all rainbows and sunshine. Their ultimate goal is to line their own pockets and helping you is just a side effect.

a reply to: DAVID64

Not all unions are good for their workers, as I made the comment, mine isn't. Mine is probably as corrupts as they get when it comes to lining their pockets and padding their jobs before they will lift a finger to do anything for us.

There are certain occupations that are better to be in when you're not unionized and I am all for that.

All of the unions around me pay 2-3 times what other non union companies would be paying for the same work.

Like I said, if you want to not be in a union, I have no problems with your choice. There are those types of issues that our brothers and sisters will face while being a part of that. But, in the same breathe, they know the "risks" of being in a union when they join and should always have backup/contingency plans for such a scenario.

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: PorkChop96

I worked non union in the coal mines and my pay and benefits were better. There were union mines around here and they were forever going on strike for one reason or another.
Guys would lose their homes or cars because of it and had a hard time even keeping food on the table. The union kept saying "we're doing this for you !!"... but they still lost their homes.

If people want to go union, go for it. But it's not all rainbows and sunshine. Their ultimate goal is to line their own pockets and helping you is just a side effect.

I work in Aerospace and most at my employer are the "screaming at the sky" lefties, so they all recently voted yes to the union. Now nobody gets raises anymore. The company didn't want the union but the lefties didn't listen. Some of the most vocal ones already quit which was odd.

The only people that got raises were the union executives at an average salary of 125k or better. Some making almost 400k.

I hope my employer NEVER accepts any contract. No contract so far.

When I was at Boeing Everett, the union president was arrested and imprisoned for embezzlement.

a reply to: PorkChop96

My personal experience with unions is that the unions of old were a little better than today.

Corruption is a black mold that has infected anything that has to do with money.

It spreads like wildfire, and leaves nothing untouched.

It destroys you physically, mentally, and spiritually.

What is good for some is always a bane to many.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Not sure where your place of work is located but I work in a pretty far left leaning company and our union is pretty decent, depending on how you view it.

We get a raise every year, most of us in the union are right leaning, and we are pretty well protected from most of the bs our company tries to push down to us.

Yeah, our last contract wasn't great, a lot of the older guys got screwed out of some money and they messed up a lot of other things. The only reason this last contract got voted in was because they gave all of us younger guys an almost 10 dollar an hour pay bump. As soon as they saw that they voted yes right away without even reading the rest of the bs they threw in with that pay.

Definitely sounds like the people on your contract negotiation team are pretty far into the companies pocket

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Money is a driving force behind almost anything in this country anymore

Yeah, unions of the past were something to behold, but the leaders of them today have lost sight of what they were here to do and are only worried about their bottom line.

But I still stand behind my point that unions in this country have raised a lot of families, sent generations of kids to college, and have built this country into what it is, as f'ed up as it seems lately.

a reply to: PorkChop96

Unions started as a great idea. More money and better working/safety conditions, but somewhere along the way, it became about money/power for them.

Unions did a lot of good when they first came into play, but as with most good ideas they became bedfellows with corruption.

A union will require three workers to do the job of one, and none of the three are required to put anything but minimal effort into the task. It's nearly impossible to fire an incompetent, unqualified or just plain lazy union worker.
The number of poorly qualified school teachers is rapidly increasing, with little chance of ever weeding them out-even if their behavior re children crosses the line, thanks to: The Union.
Same thing with law enforcement; there's little power to weed out the bad ones thanks to: The union.

The amount of corruption going on in the structure of unions has been known to rival the mafia.

Unions spend a huge portion of the dues collected to lobby congress for laws favorable to their goals, which is often in direct conflict with what's best for society as a whole.

I vote to either gut the unions of all their fluff and corruption or get rid of them all together. They're doing far more harm than good at this point.

a reply to: PorkChop96

Yeah, it's been about 5 months since the vote to unionize happened, and no news of anything yet. Haven't heard a thing.

My employer is not huge, maybe 75 people at our machine shop, but they have other locations around the globe. Medical devices and Aerospace parts. Most of it is subtractive manufacturing.

It just (to me) doesn't make sense to unionize in a company this small.. When I worked at Boeing back in the late '80's it was definitely good for employees since Boeing is so huge. Since then Boeing's benefits have vastly gone lower and lower, lots of takeaways compared to back then.

a reply to: DAVID64

They still are, depending on where you go for one.

They have definitely lost their vision of what they are and what they are meant to be for the workers.

a reply to: nugget1

Agreed

Union "leadership" has been given more power than they were ever supposed to have, and that is the key factor in the downfall of most unions.

There will always be the lazy workers wherever you go, and I agree, unions give those employees more of a reason to do as little as possible. We have plenty of that where I work and that is a huge problem.

Gutting the hierarchy of the unions would be a good start, but I would push getting rid of them all together to the bottom of the to do list.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Unionizing almost never works out for small companies, unless they are part of a local that has other larger companies that are part of it as well.

My union has around 1500 employees in one plant, then we have a couple other smaller businesses that we work with that helps the smaller companies be a little stronger with their union workers.

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: nugget1

Agreed

Union "leadership" has been given more power than they were ever supposed to have, and that is the key factor in the downfall of most unions.

There will always be the lazy workers wherever you go, and I agree, unions give those employees more of a reason to do as little as possible. We have plenty of that where I work and that is a huge problem.

Gutting the hierarchy of the unions would be a good start, but I would push getting rid of them all together to the bottom of the to do list.

One of these days somebody is gonna have to admit that a lot of these socioeconomic gimmicks have run their course and accomplished their goals.
Unions helped get us out of the robber baron conditions and abuse of workers.
Reverse racism welfare helped to accomplish the reparations that were due and level the playing field.
The LGBT revolution helped minimize the unfairness and abuse of people with different lifestyles.
Immigration helped us make a great melting pot and share our wealth with the rest of the world.
Women and kids are no longer abused like they were.

Programs like these have accomplished about 95 % of their goals, but people now want to use them as a scam for unlimited freebies forever.
The programs need to be phased into mechanisms that make sure things don’t backslide into the bad old condition. But scaled back away from freebies forever. The only way to keep growing the programs forever is a communist state. Which the idiots among us think is a great idea.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: PorkChop96

I worked non union in the coal mines and my pay and benefits were better. There were union mines around here and they were forever going on strike for one reason or another.
Guys would lose their homes or cars because of it and had a hard time even keeping food on the table. The union kept saying "we're doing this for you !!"... but they still lost their homes.

If people want to go union, go for it. But it's not all rainbows and sunshine. Their ultimate goal is to line their own pockets and helping you is just a side effect.

I work in Aerospace and most at my employer are the "screaming at the sky" lefties, so they all recently voted yes to the union. Now nobody gets raises anymore. The company didn't want the union but the lefties didn't listen. Some of the most vocal ones already quit which was odd.

The only people that got raises were the union executives at an average salary of 125k or better. Some making almost 400k.

I hope my employer NEVER accepts any contract. No contract so far.

When I was at Boeing Everett, the union president was arrested and imprisoned for embezzlement.

Been involved in unions for 30+ years and your post stinks of disinformation. I hope my employer never accepts any contract? The workers and the union negotiate every couple years with your employer for better wages , insurance, more vacation days and many other things. If you don’t have a contract between yourself ( the worker ) and the company that the union negotiated for you then your not in a union.

a reply to: stevieray

I am having a hard time trying to figure out where you are getting that unions are a "socioeconomic gimmick" that just hands out "freebies"?

Labor unions are around to help the workers with work-related difficulties such as low pay, unsafe or unsanitary working conditions, long hours, and other situations. And, if you are a dues paying member, none of that comes to you for free.

Anyone who has studied Ecobomics knows unions are bad for everyone.

“I’m grateful to have a union” but you left off “so I can benefit by making things artificially more expensive for everyone else, suck at my job and not get fired (leading to cost overruns, untimely project completion, etc.), when we throw a tantrum because our above-market comp and benes isn’t enough we’ll just stop working but you can’t fire us (easily), and be entirely beholden to my union masters”

Let us not get into the public sector unions that are destroying state budgets and leaving incompetent, entitled morons in power.

Unions are great!

a reply to: VulcanWerks

Sounds like someone has either had their "feelz hurt" by a union or has absolutely no idea of what a union actually is.

Yes, there are those in a union that are absolutely disgraceful and should not be aloud to be here, but we can't get rid of them.

I'm sorry that us asking for proper compensation for the job that we do hurts your feelings and makes you feel better than us. If you were in a skilled trade and were offered less than market value for your job, would you not ask for a raise?

The difference between you and I, if we had the exact same skill set/job, is that you can be fired for doing absolutely nothing wrong, you have nobody to help negotiate a fair wage/benefits/PTO/retirement/etc for you so you can focus on your job, and plenty of other things.

I've already said that not all unions are great, mine included, but what they stand for, if done correctly, are highly beneficial for those in the union and those that have the same type of job outside of the union in the area.

a reply to: PorkChop96

I have been in Unions...A. F. Musicians, Local 5...since 1968-age 14, child performer...and in AFSCME 1583 forever, Police and Fire...a couple others.

I was at U of M med Center working...98ish...when it became an issue.."right to work"...enabled you not to be union...but one had to pay to union anyway...because the Union's the one who negotiated your current wage there.

Friend? U of M-union- 401. City of....-union-401, FoMoComp-union 401, AFM-union/no 401.

I've always made the most $$ union. My whole life.. .

American Fed Musicians-Steward 1971-2
AFSCME- Chaplin 2015

Why do we have to pay our dues every month to gain the benefits of our union, but you want to come in and get them all for free? Why not start demanding your insurance company to give you all of the benefits of having your policies, but never paying them a dime. Don't pay your phone bill, and tell them you need to keep your service and see how fast you get laughed out of he building.

Sounds like this might be part of the problem; when even the supporters of unions speek of their unions as if they are a big business your going to have some people who do not want too patronize that business. It is inevitable.

"The Union doesn't give me my benefits, the company I work for gives me my benefits, why should I pay a union for benefits they don't give me?"