We Should Rally Behind the MIC

a reply to: JinMI

sure it does, the MIC needs us to trust that when they send us to occupy positions, its to support their agenda and project strength where and when its needed in order to protect the country. Isn't that the "honor and sacrifice" that we as citizens are supposed to and support as well as mourn and celebrate, the real heroes, the ones that gave it all?

A standing army of foreign born GI's would still theoretically be under the command of some superior officer, no way they would order that army to attack civilian targets....right?
I mean, that brings me back to the question of whether the MIC would turn on the population they depend on for funding.
So would popular uprising be a preventative measure or should "we the people" only be reactionary?
Or are the MIC prepared for either/both scenarios

a reply to: datguy

sure it does, the MIC needs us to trust that when they send us to occupy positions, its to support their agenda and project strength where and when its needed in order to protect the country. Isn't that the "honor and sacrifice" that we as citizens are supposed to and support as well as mourn and celebrate, the real heroes, the ones that gave it all?

What has the MIC done to garner that depth of trust? I don't trust them to do anything except keep their shareholders in the black. If it happens to be an American interest or security, it's coincidental.

A standing army of foreign born GI's would still theoretically be under the command of some superior officer, no way they would order that army to attack civilian targets....right?

"Theres no way they would indict a ex POTUS' attorney, let alone a ex POTUS."

I'm just saying, we are in interesting times here.

So would popular uprising be a preventative measure or should "we the people" only be reactionary?
Or are the MIC prepared for either/both scenarios

This brings us back to the question of where does the gov't end and the military begin. Should the hypothetical uprising be broad enough, the plans wont matter as they simply wouldn't be able to fight them all.

a reply to: JinMI

which then brings us back to the concept of the civil/cold war
seems for all the Socratic thinking and devils advocacy we find ourselves facing a paradoxical decision, to be or not be

But which way is up, who is right, what is right?

Support the MIC or support the Gov., is there a third option, I would say yes if it was not full of weakness and fear and complacency and dependence on the very system that has made it weak and fearful and complacent.

A broad enough uprising would have to include a level of sacrifice that can only be forced at this point. Only when there is no food and no power will there be anything broad enough to break the bonds, and by then it will be too late.
Is there perhaps another catalyst for this shock that is needed to create a wide enough base?
That seems extreme and complex, I prefer the genius of simplicity
Perhaps all that is needed is to "rally behind the MIC"

a reply to: datguy

which then brings us back to the concept of the civil/cold war
seems for all the Socratic thinking and devils advocacy we find ourselves facing a paradoxical decision, to be or not be

But which way is up, who is right, what is right?

Indeed. Its a tough road to argue on this side of things and I'm surprised the thread got as much traction as it did.


The gaping hole in my argument/position here is that it relies on trust of government. Not only to do the right, moral thing but in the interests of the constituency.

Yet, if we truly believe in the 2nd amendment, wouldn't we also want it abroad? For all the foreign policy talk about spreading democracy and American values, funnily enough, this one is left out while also generating massive revenue for the very cloistered "branch" of govt.

A broad enough uprising would have to include a level of sacrifice that can only be forced at this point. Only when there is no food and no power will there be anything broad enough to break the bonds, and by then it will be too late.
Is there perhaps another catalyst for this shock that is needed to create a wide enough base?

I agree with these points 100%.

Question, would removal of Trump from select states illicit such a response?

a reply to: JinMI

Not by a long shot, he may have a lot of popular support, and even still gaining traction but its not enough as he isn't interested in uniting. Everything he does to attract one supporter, he also gains a detractor.

I would love to be wrong and see a massive of voter turnout, the likes of which would be unheard of in any modern country.
Im talking something over 60/70% with a massive majority for a single candidate
That would be a good starting catalyst, we need the likes of a 100 million man march just to get the ball rolling.

Yet, if we truly believe in the 2nd amendment, wouldn't we also want it abroad?

be careful what you wish for, just because we view it as a tool for the preservation of freedom doesn't mean that every nation/religion/ideology thinks the same way

I asked before about the effects of doing so with nations like Taiwan, South Korea, ect, but what if I flipped the script and said we should arm North Korea, Iraq, Venezuela, Belarus? are you still on board?

a reply to: datguy

Not by a long shot, he may have a lot of popular support, and even still gaining traction but its not enough as he isn't interested in uniting. Everything he does to attract one supporter, he also gains a detractor.

That's simply not true as per the difference between votes from 2016 -2020. I don't know what you mean by uniting.


Voter turnout for 2020 was 68%.

be careful what you wish for, just because we view it as a tool for the preservation of freedom doesn't mean that every nation/religion/ideology thinks the same way

What do I care what they think? I'm in favor of putting the great equalizer in any hand that wants one...

I asked before about the effects of doing so with nations like Taiwan, South Korea, ect, but what if I flipped the script and said we should arm North Korea, Iraq, Venezuela, Belarus? are you still on board?

I'm less familiar with the South American nations but in the case of NK and Iraq, I'm all for it. Would find out really quickly how much they like living under tyranny.

a reply to: JinMI

just on approximate census numbers (331m) and the number of votes in 2020(164m) less than half of the population voted, that's far better than most years for a presidential election but still not enough to be a catalyst for a major uprising.
Trump is not a "uniter", regardless of why he always seems to say or do something that creates division

I don't think there would be any political event that would illicit such a powerful response from the American population, politics has only been a source of division. In order for any uprising to be successful, we would all need to be united with singular intent, other wise we fall into that open civil war trap.

I'm less familiar with the South American nations but in the case of NK and Iraq, I'm all for it. Would find out really quickly how much they like living under tyranny.

I guess that could be a possible outcome, the human condition does tend to lean towards freedom, but it has an insatiable appetite

a reply to: datguy

just on approximate census numbers (331m) and the number of votes in 2020(164m) less than half of the population voted, that's far better than most years for a presidential election but still not enough to be a catalyst for a major uprising.
Trump is not a "uniter", regardless of why he always seems to say or do something that creates division

Everywhere I see shows 66-68% of voters voted. Which is interesting as typically disliked candidates results in voter apathy, not record breaking turnout.

Regardless, It doesn't take a majority to embark on an uprising.

I guess that could be a possible outcome, the human condition does tend to lean towards freedom, but it has an insatiable appetite

Agreed, or an energy that can be harnessed to disasterous effect.

a reply to: kwakakev

Better chance of fixing the machine if you are a part of it.

I was just wondering what you have been up to, Joschka Fischer. And how well did the fixing work out for the Green party in Germany? WTF are they fixing anyway, black tar heroin?