Karma and Free Will - Earth Fiction (?)

Hi lovely Earth Fam. I'm an ATS newbie and here's my first post (prob. to be added to my dossier, gasp! 😉)

Here it is:

There are those that would have me believe that there are such things as karma and free will.

Now, the problem presents itself in that very sentence: There are those that would have me believe ..

However, if I look at karma, it has the very makings of an Earth fiction using human behavioural psychology (Pavlov's dog anyone?). This Earth life is saturated with reward and punishment systems used to control behavour. In that 'light', karma looks to be man-made not divine.

'If' we are in fact portions of the One (God/Source etc.) why would the One/we need to punish and reward itself/ourselves? That seems very distorted. Much like the distortion that encrouches every aspect of Earth life. Again, not seeming very divine.

The One (us in full form) is said to be all-knowing, not lacking, not separate. Therefore, it should not need lessons, rewards or punishments--

Free will. I often hear and read that I/we have free will. Yet, every day I can point to multiple instances where that is incorrect. 2+2 does 'not' equal 5!

The only way I can make any sense of 'these views' is by the following.

Being all-knowing and perfect may get boring. So, as souls we choose to have a wide range of experiences. In choosing and planning them we use unlimited free will. But, once on Earth we forget so we can experience it as a reality. However, as it is pre-planned -chosen -determined, it does not allow for much free will.

Back to karma. So, if karma is an Earth fiction (to keep many inline having that type of experience) that would mean there is no good, bad, right and wrong. Only experiences that we chose pre-incarnating using free will. No punishments or rewards required/necessary.

Those that chose the experience of 'Architects' are to ensure the plans stay intact. Therefore, they have some of the blueprints.

What say ye fellow deep thinkers? Do you believe in the karma and free will theories we are 'told'? If not, what holes do you see in the stories and what are your views?

a reply to: Seer13

First Flag!

Welcome indeed

a reply to: Seer13

You might like my short story how consciousness became the universe

But, once on Earth we forget so we can experience it as a reality. However, as it is pre-planned -chosen -determined, it does not allow for much free will.

Just remeber, and take it from there...

Thank you.

a reply to: Saloon

LOL nice one, re:

Just remeber, and take it from there...

(I'm still figuring out out the ATS tools)

originally posted by: Seer13


'If' we are in fact portions of the One (God/Source etc.) why would the One/we need to punish and reward itself/ourselves? That seems very distorted. Much like the distortion that encrouches every aspect of Earth life. Again, not seeming very divine.

The One (us in full form) is said to be all-knowing, not lacking, not separate. Therefore, it should not need lessons, rewards or punishments--

Karma is only of this realm, where say Christ is right now, karma doesn't exist. We are separated from God and have to return to Him, "to become one with Him" but to do that we have to live our lives in such a way as to not create bad karma.

The punishment we receive is of our own creation, what we do here imprints upon the soul.

Karma is dedicating your life to being a somebody here and receiving nothing from God, or dedicating your life to being a nobody here and receiving everything from God.

a reply to: Cwantas

the whole shebang works perfectly well with yourself as the most high...

No need for an external judge, there is no denying the life you lived when it comes to an end. For many, that retrospective process is hell...

a reply to: Cwantas

You are not separate ...... thought tells lies.

It is only in thought stories that you seem to be separate.

'Christ is the visible image of the invisible God.'

The visible image is always here, exactly where you are.......look.
What is appearing as plain sight hides behind the concepts and stories.

The imagination of past and future happen now........it may 'seem' that someone is wandering outside of what actually is.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: Cwantas

You are not separate ...... thought tells lies.

It is only in thought stories that you seem to be separate.

'Christ is the visible image of the invisible God.'

The visible image is always here, exactly where you are.......look.
What is appearing as plain sight hides behind the concepts and stories.

The imagination of past and future happen now........it may 'seem' that someone is wandering outside of what actually is.

I mean separated in the sense that we are in a spiritual prison, God is in us, we have to find our way to Him, creating bad Karma prevents that.

a reply to: Cwantas

Now is witnessing what's appearing presently......
What's appearing presently is disappearing presently.

There isn't anything else.

The idea that you exist is the imprisonment.

Only the truth shall set 'you' free.

a reply to: Cwantas

a reply to: Seer13

Hi Seer13 welcome to ats.

🥰

a reply to: Seer13
Congrats on a strong start!

My reading on Karma is it simply applies to your life...If you are untrustworthy and nasty, in time those sort of people will be the only ones who will hang out with you.

As for free will, everything is decided, every thought, every action is the latest in a sequence that began with the big bang.

a reply to: Seer13

Hi Seer and welcome.

Karma exists or does not exist depending only on you. If you are angry at another person and think that karma will get them one day, that is your desire. Release the anger and hate and feel understanding and compassion for that person's shortcomings and the desire for them to experience karma is no more. Karma is a choice you make for yourself and others.

Free will is a whole other concept and my opinion on that varies depending on my mental state of the day (religious, societal, governmental control, self-imposed obligations to others, etc.). So in a sense for me free will also lies with me having the free will to let it all go or to not let it all go.

a reply to: Seer13

Being all-knowing and perfect may get boring. So, as souls we choose to have a wide range of experiences. In choosing and planning them we use unlimited free will. But, once on Earth we forget so we can experience it as a reality. However, as it is pre-planned -chosen -determined, it does not allow for much free will.

So......we're actually the 'fallen angels' ?

Welcome to the threads, Seer.

originally posted by: Seer13
LOL nice one, re:

Just remeber, and take it from there...

(I'm still figuring out out the ATS tools) . I was told by mod to grow a thicker skin. Proved to be good advice. Welcome!

Karma is a Hindu belief.


a reply to: Seer13

a reply to: Seer13

Welcome to ATS.

Your words imply that you see free will as something real before incarnation, but fictional after.

I don't have any particular reason to believe I chose anything before being. Before being I was not.

I have strong reason to believe, and every indication points to the fact that, I will never reach the blessed state that some label non-duality.

The reason is quite simple: I am daimon possessed. Now don't freak out. It isn't weird, I assure you. Quite natural.

Daimon literally means "of divine origin". Some people may call their own daimon "the soul", "conscience", perhaps even "Holy Spirit". Daimon can actually be translated as Holy Spirit. See, not weird at all.

My daimon is part of the me, yet separate too, at the same time. Think of conscience now. Is it you, talking to yourself, or is it something not you, talking to you? Or is it both?

Again, I must caution you not to freak out. For all intents and purposes, this Daimon is my personal deity. Did my God create the Universe? No. Is my God immortal, eternal? No. Does my God control the fates of all people? No.

My God is every bit as small and weak as I am. It's part of a package deal. We began together and we will end together.

So I'm disqualified from labels like "non-duality" and even "Atheist".

Now good karma: If someone or something is benefitted by something I say, do, don't say or don't do; then good for them! Yay!

Bad karma: If someone or something is harmed by something I say, do, don't say or don't do; then sad for them. I'm sorry! And I hope you can recover.

Personal Guilt/Sin/Badness: These things weigh upon me. They don't just go away. I can't just transfer them to someone else (the premise of Christianity). So I'm disqualified from that. Neither are these transferred to some future person (the premise of re-incarnation) So I'm disqualified from that.

I am disqualified from all these Worldviews which have such great numbers of people who hold them.

I choose my Worldview freely, without societal or peer pressure, in the privacy of me and my daimon, in joint consultation and agreement.

Now how is that for free will?

a reply to: pthena

Is it you, talking to yourself, or is it something not you, talking to you? Or is it both?

There is no you .......there maybe talking happening but no one is doing talking.....and no one is hearing the talking.

No one can achieve the 'nonduality state'.....it's not a state......it's simply what is happening (one without a second)......always just this and no thing else.


What is happening cannot be controlled because there isn't any thing apart from it.
Isn't that a relief?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

I've got no way to relate to the non-dual Worldview.

It's quite possible that I have an Indeterminate Materialistic Worldview. I'll have to look those words up to see if they fit. They may be contradictory for all I know.

I think, that in the final analysis people should stick with a Worldview that they can both understand and completely relate to, without having to justify it to others.

Debates about beliefs can and often do get very ugly. I'm sorry for the times I've gotten ugly. The desire(need) to justify oneself by gaining allies in those beliefs may be the root of some fights.