Missouri IS Protecting Children effective August 28th 2023

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“The provisions of this section shall not apply to the following.

1. Services to individual born with a medically verifiable disorder of sex development, including, but not limited to, an individual with external biological sex characteristics that are irresolvable ambiguous, such as those born with 46 XX chromosomes with virilization, 46 XY chromosomes with undervirilization, or having both ovarian and testicular tissue”

OK — how does this apply?

All of these say medically verifiable.

Brain disorders/dysfunction are not medically verifiable (yet).

a reply to: datguy

Gender “change” is NOT sex change.

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: datguy

Gender “change” is NOT sex change.

There is no sex or gender change.
Gender is the same as sex but a more loose word the gender ideology and trans activists are using to push their antiscientific ideas.

a reply to: Annee

In English at least, those two words are synonyms, i.e. they mean the same thing.

originally posted by: datguy
a reply to: Annee

Thank you for that input, as much as I hate reading transcripts (I always get the voices wrong...), it was a good insight into autism, not gender. The gender/trans aspects are there but not the main point, except that the narrator wanted it to be.

I would bet a lot that if you met those people in real life, you would not know they were autistic and they would not speak about their sexuality unless prompted to, though I have been know to be wrong.

I feel like the idea that autism can amplify certain feelings and expressions is being used incorrectly here.
I feel like the articles title was supposed to be "Autistic individuals are 6 times more likely to be trans and nonbinary"
In context it makes more sense.

As we have only touched on this previously I have including my previous comments as they are relevant to both articles. I still stand by those comments after reading this article and browsing the studies.
some of the studies presented in this article are the same as used in the previous article you linked, and nearly the same deduction is made,

People who do not identify with the sex they were assigned at birth are three to six times as likely to be autistic

originally posted by: Annee
Largest study to date confirms overlap between autism and gender diversity

www.spectrumnews.org...

I wont deny an overlap but there is no indication that they are the same condition.
I also stand by my comments that if a doctor is treating autism with hormone therapy, they should lose their licence.

originally posted by: DragonsDemesne
a reply to: Annee

In English at least, those two words are synonyms, i.e. they mean the same thing.

They are not.

Sex is physical.

Gender is how you identify

Anyway — every position you’re trying to use to justify your claim requires verifiable tested proof.

That is not possible (yet) for brain disorder/dysfunction.

Doesn’t even come close.

a reply to: Annee

What is Mental Illness?

It is a medical condition, just like heart disease or diabetes. And mental health conditions are treatable. We are continually expanding our understanding of how the human brain works, and treatments are available to help people successfully manage mental health conditions

Unless your saying a doctor cant treat psychological disorders?

a reply to: Annee

Gender “change” is NOT sex change.

Then please explain why a sex change is even part of the discussion?

a reply to: Annee

ok just checking
This pretty much invalidates everyone of your medical claims to what children need or should get in treatment

honest question, do you not see the contradiction?

a reply to: datguy

No hate towards Annee here.

I do believe she is intelligent enough like you suggest. She is more likely, I feel, to engage in dialogue if she sees someone comes from a place of sincerity. To top it off, she'll often actually read the links. Not always, but often. I think she at least clicks on them to see their lean. That said, as far as this topic goes, I personally think she is too close to it to see a bigger picture. I have no doubt she has a big caring heart and is genuinely taking the position she feels is the best for her grandson, and other kids as well. Unfortunately I think that causes a level of fear that things have to happen now, and a blindness/unwillingness to even entertain the idea of a bigger, less positive picture.

Again, Annee, no hate on you!

“They” are literally denying the existence of Gender Dysphoria by leaving it out.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

i agree with you, i have no ill will towards her.
In fact part of my intent, and my comments should prove it, is to show her that abiding strictly by the "best medical care" or maintaining a strict echo chamber that support these ideas, may not be in her best interest and that there should be caution taken when blindly accepting confirmation bias.

I absolutely think that some on this site are intentionally misleading others, I also absolutely think that she has been mislead by these people and others.

....I once was forces to attend a group therapy called "scared straight" many might remember the program, It put troubled children in jail for a few hours, the psychology was used to to try and persuade children from continuing down a path that would lead them to jail.
Today i see the same program but it is being used against children. Parents are being "scared" into the idea that their kids are going to harm themselves or others unless treatment is given, quick lets do this so they don't kill themselves.

The study linked earlier in the thread was shown to disprove this idea while the information was being used to send a contradictory message

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: datguy

I personally think she is too close to it to see a bigger picture.

Ahhh, thank you for your very kind words — but no.

Who’s doing this? The same demographic as the anti-gay movement.

Homosexuals also can not be tested as proof of who/what they are.

We know only because they tell us.

originally posted by: Annee
Who’s doing this? The same demographic as the anti-gay movement.

While I have no doubt that there are anti-gay people involved, they can't be singled out as the only opposing force.

Do you think I am anti-trans or anti-gay?

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer

originally posted by: Annee
Who’s doing this? The same demographic as the anti-gay movement.

While I have no doubt that there are anti-gay people involved, they can't be singled out as the only opposing force.

Do you think I am anti-trans or anti-gay?

No.

But to be honest — if anything — it’s anti fundamentalism and legislating ignorance from the pulpit, through politics.

Not that I’m too close to the subject.

But my real life experiences are just that.

Abortion — same thing — same demographic.

a reply to: Annee

I do not see it that way, they are not deny they exist by excluding the term in the law, they are simply making sure the law can be applied to all.
For the sake of our conversation, I am not denying their existence.
I do not ascribe to the labeling of these children as having ANY medical or psychological disorder.
I do not think there is anything medically or psychologically "wrong" with these children.

That is why I am against treating them medically or other wise, I stand by my statement that they need to be educated, about sex, about biological gender, about genetics. The kids, for the most part, are smart enough to learn and understand all of that.

The pharmaceutical influence and conflict of interest of the drug manufacturers has played out so many times in the past, when will people see through the special interest BS? They spend millions of dollars to persuade people to use their untested products.

Just the fact that the NIH is in bed with Fort Detrick should be a warning sigh to all. They have been shown to have tested chemical and biological agents on unwitting Americans throughout history, they haven't stopped doing it all of a sudden. THIS IS NO DIFFERENT

originally posted by: datguy
Just the fact that the NIH is in bed with Fort Detrick should be a warning sigh to all. They have been shown to have tested chemical and biological agents on unwitting Americans throughout history, they haven't stopped doing it all of a sudden. THIS IS NO DIFFERENT

This has been on my mind too. Why would they stop? Nothing changed, they just got better at how to do it and how to more easily get away with it. I don't think it's too conspiratorial to think that the tentacles spread wide and far. Start with the education system. First the colleges about ten years ago. The SJWs and whatnot. They are taught certain ways of thinking and start spreading it, and going on the attack. Then comes wokeism.

A whole group up people craftily taught a way of thinking that primes them to be easily used as a divisive front (to keep us constantly debating amongst ourselves in threads like these) and tool to further multiple agendas. These people are mostly incapable of honest debate though. They obfuscate and manipulate language, and all sorts of other things.

They're mostly incapable of defending their positions, but feel they're on the forefront of change, and a future of harsh justice for those that disagree with their ideology. Their indoctrination is so deep that they will turn on their own just as fast as they would turn on you or I. And now they, and those behind the scenes, want to push this onto the children.

That opens a whole other can of worms but suffice it to say, I can't fathom how there isn't a red flag thrown up in any citizen's mind when the government or education system acts to put a wedge between parent and child, deny the parent any say (if they are even told at all) in what their child is learning, allow children to begin Experimental Gender Conditioning ("Gender Affirmation Care") without their parent's knowledge or consent, or act to allow shelters to hide children's whereabouts from the parents and allow those same shelters to begin Experimental Gender Conditioning on those kids again, without parental knowledge or consent.

Those things plus a slew of others tell me, something more is going on than meets the eye. The problem is, part of the strategy is the age old, divide and conquer. They're trying to keep us divided and using a very sensitive topic to keep as many of us in the dark as possible. So many feels! Emotional blackmail. Like the argument these kids will commit suicide if we don't do something for them immediately. As if anything other than the drugs is a death sentence.

Then of course because we don't buy into it all, we are actually the problem. We are a barrier to social justice and inclusivity, we are what's holding the world back.

/rant

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Every generation has their thing.

One was the Devil with swinging hips.

My kid and his friends openly talk about who’s who, who’s what, etc — normal “playground” talk for them.

And he openly talks to me.

a reply to: Annee

What's your point? Can you elaborate?

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: Annee

What's your point? Can you elaborate?

I’m 77 — so I’ve been through many school “incarnations” starting in the 50s.

While I would support more discipline/respect in schools today — I totally support the openness and diversity in people being who they were meant to be.

The “fringe” culture has always been. It’s not a new fad. Sodomy laws were finally ruled invalid only 20 years ago (fascinating read).

Schools/teachers protecting students came about because of parent abuse when gay kids started coming out.