There's not enough time in the world for mutations to create new proteins

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: quintessentone
I wonder if we should send out a probe and collect stardust or cosmic dust and see what we can do with that?

First Look at Ryugu Asteroid Sample Reveals it is Organic-Rich

Interesting. And when they are done with their investigations give it to the scientists and see if they can create life from the elements. Although I wonder if the sample has been contaminated.

a reply to: cooperton

That was beautifully relayed with something akin to poetic philosophy, which also inspires awe at our human capabilities.

originally posted by: quintessentone

Interesting. And when they are done with their investigations give it to the scientists and see if they can create life from the elements. Although I wonder if the sample has been contaminated.

The components they found on it were amino acids and other monomers. These components still haven't passed the thermodynamic barrier I was referring to earlier. The difficult part is getting these amino acid pieces to "polymerize", i.e. join together to form large functional proteins. The reason this is difficult is because proteins will decay in water, rather than be formed in water. Think of soup, the potatoes decompose/get softer. You don't put mashed potatoes in boiling water and expect a re-formed potato to come out. That's how simple this thermodynamic law is that prevents polymers from forming in water, rendering abiogenesis thermodynamically impossible.

The only reason this happens in organic lifeforms is because ribosomes catalyze these reactions to make them possible in water. It's quite astonishing, the ribosome is like a reaction chamber that 3D prints proteins chains from amino acids.

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: cooperton

That was beautifully relayed with something akin to poetic philosophy, which also inspires awe at our human capabilities.

Thank you, I am in awe at all of the world around us.

a reply to: cooperton

If the ribosomes are the key then from the little I am able to digest about the makeup of ribosomes leaves me wondering if we could, in the future, replicate a ribosome by combining elements.

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: cooperton

If the ribosomes are the key then from the little I am able to digest about the makeup of ribosomes leaves me wondering if we could, in the future, replicate a ribosome by combining elements.

en.wikipedia.org...

If we were to make some enzyme that was different than a ribosome that were capable of polymerizing amino acids that would be interesting. As of now though the ribosome is very efficient at doing its job. It makes sure the protein being built gets sequenced according to genetic code fragments and also catalyzes the bond in the correct orientation.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: cooperton

If the ribosomes are the key then from the little I am able to digest about the makeup of ribosomes leaves me wondering if we could, in the future, replicate a ribosome by combining elements.

en.wikipedia.org...

If we were to make some enzyme that was different than a ribosome that were capable of polymerizing amino acids that would be interesting. As of now though the ribosome is very efficient at doing its job. It makes sure the protein being built gets sequenced according to genetic code fragments and also catalyzes the bond in the correct orientation.

Yes, but isn't all of that simply chemicals, elements and processes? Can't we replicate it all?

originally posted by: quintessentone

Yes, but isn't all of that simply chemicals, elements and processes? Can't we replicate it all?

With a ribosome yeah we can synthesize proteins. With CRISPR they can make whatever DNA strand they can imagine, and then ribosomes extracted from living organisms can then use that DNA code to make proteins from it.

Extremely acidic conditions can also allow amino acid polymerization. This is why it was once believed that life started near acidic hydrothermal vents... but the problem is that these very same acidic conditions would denature any resulting protein that was created.

originally posted by: quintessentone
Interesting. And when they are done with their investigations give it to the scientists and see if they can create life from the elements. Although I wonder if the sample has been contaminated.

They seem to be wrapped up pretty tight.

The interesting thing is that they say nucleobases have been found in some meteorites, although contamination is probable in those cases as well.

The thing is that if this is true, it shows simple to complex, even on lifeless rocks floating in space.

More importantly, it shows one side working on it while the other side wants to claim that the case is closed.

originally posted by: daskakik

The interesting thing is that they say nucleobases have been found in some meteorites, although contamination is probable in those cases as well.

The thing is that if this is true, it shows simple to complex, even on lifeless rocks floating in space.

Nucleobases are sub-components of DNA monomers. These parts are not the difficult part to form. The issue is polymerizing nucleic acids in proper orientation to form DNA chains. No DNA chains were found on the asteroid, therefore it doesn't bypass any thermodynamic hurdles that prevent the possibility of abiogenesis on earth.

More importantly, it shows one side working on it while the other side wants to claim that the case is closed.

Evolutionists don't want it discussed how there's no known mechanism for life to come from non-life given our current thermodynamic laws in the universe.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: quintessentone
Interesting. And when they are done with their investigations give it to the scientists and see if they can create life from the elements. Although I wonder if the sample has been contaminated.

They seem to be wrapped up pretty tight.

The interesting thing is that they say nucleobases have been found in some meteorites, although contamination is probable in those cases as well.

The thing is that if this is true, it shows simple to complex, even on lifeless rocks floating in space.

More importantly, it shows one side working on it while the other side wants to claim that the case is closed.

Then there's the Earth re-entry temperature damages? and contamination after unwrapping. So, it may be that we need advanced probes to do the lab work right in space at least to eliminate some contamination issues, maybe create others?

a reply to: cooperton
Yes, but they are still working on it and not just saying, I can't image how so god did it.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: cooperton
Yes, but they are still working on it and not just saying, I can't image how so god did it.

No, I can imagine the necessary steps, and so can other scientists. The problem is that these necessary steps are not thermodynamically plausible. It is known that these mechanisms are not possible according to thermodynamic laws. That is why I don't believe in evolution.

originally posted by: quintessentone
Then there's the Earth re-entry temperature damages? and contamination after unwrapping. So, it may be that we need advanced probes to do the lab work right in space at least to eliminate some contamination issues, maybe create others?

If they can get people to re-enter without becoming toast, I'm sure they can shield the samples.

On site analysis would be ideal but I'm sure there will always be some people saying it is all faked.

a reply to: cooperton
Yeah, you keep telling us you have convinced yourself but, the jury is still out on that.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: cooperton
Yeah, you keep telling us you have convinced yourself but, the jury is still out on that.

No it is well-known science that amino acids don't polymerize in water. The jury has decided.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: quintessentone
Then there's the Earth re-entry temperature damages? and contamination after unwrapping. So, it may be that we need advanced probes to do the lab work right in space at least to eliminate some contamination issues, maybe create others?

If they can get people to re-enter without becoming toast, I'm sure they can shield the samples.

On site analysis would be ideal but I'm sure there will always be some people saying it is all faked.

Is the shielding of samples the same as shielding for astronauts? I understand heat can speed up molecules by making them move faster.

originally posted by: cooperton
No it is well-known science that amino acids don't polymerize in water. The jury has decided.

Superfast and Water-Insensitive Polymerization on α-Amino Acid N-Carboxyanhydrides to Prepare Polypeptides Using Tetraalkylammonium Carboxylate as the Initiator

Polymerization of beta-amino acids in aqueous solution

Seems like, given the right circumstances, they can.

ETA: Also, who says it had to have happened in water?

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: cooperton
No it is well-known science that amino acids don't polymerize in water. The jury has decided.

Superfast and Water-Insensitive Polymerization on α-Amino Acid N-Carboxyanhydrides to Prepare Polypeptides Using Tetraalkylammonium Carboxylate as the Initiator

Polymerization of beta-amino acids in aqueous solution

Seems like, given the right circumstances, they can.

That's what I'm talking about, we humans seem to be on the cusp of breaking the 'creation' mystery.

a reply to: quintessentone
Sure, but people like th OP seem to be unable to see that the intelligence needed to figure out the "how" doesn't imply intelligence for it to happen.

That is the crux of their argument, it couldn't happen by chance.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: quintessentone
Sure, but people like th OP seem to be unable to see that the intelligence needed to figure out the "how" doesn't imply intelligence for it to happen.

That is the crux of their argument, it couldn't happen by chance.

I understand the OPs position, but we must agree that we have not cracked the creation code yet, so there is still wiggle room for the God factor for some people.