There's not enough time in the world for mutations to create new proteins

a reply to: cooperton

Your response is proof positive that you don't have a clue how science works. You rely on supernatural creatures to do the work for you because you're incapable of doing it yourself. And because you can't do it, you think no one else can do it either. Well hundreds of thousands of journal articles, Nobel prizes and other awards have been published for over a century. And you still can't figure it out! Humans have done this on their own - no magic wand required - and never will be.

You need to find another hobby because science is not for you.

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: cooperton

Your response is proof positive that you don't have a clue how science works. You rely on supernatural creatures to do the work for you because you're incapable of doing it yourself. And because you can't do it, you think no one else can do it either. Well hundreds of thousands of journal articles, Nobel prizes and other awards have been published for over a century. And you still can't figure it out! Humans have done this on their own - no magic wand required - and never will be.

You need to find another hobby because science is not for you.

cool story bro. show a working model of abiogenesis then if your science is so sciencey.

Edit: Do you still believe that one source you provided on the other thread was an actual experiment? You know, the one where they said they would need a measuring device the size of a planet? And you posted the link thinking it was a real experiment? Lol. What a joy, I found the post. You cited a theoretical experiment involving a detection device the size of Jupiter, and supposed it was a real experiment. Hahahahaha:

Phantom's scientific illiteracy

That post^ even got 2 stars, which shows you and your cohorts have no idea what is going on. The greatest irony, is that you precede the link to that paper by saying "and you do not have a clue"... It's as though you are incapable of speaking truth.

a reply to: cooperton

No that is exactly what I am claiming. God did it. I know this is the case because biology and cosmology are clearly designed constructs that allow the perpetuity of life.

Here you are not claiming this is a hypothesis but that you know, you don't.

This type of flip-flopping while also trying to make it seem like you are being scientific reveals your bias. You are cherry picking things to argue your unfounded conclusion that "god did it".

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: daskakik

Seems to contradict when you said "Nowhere did I claim it must have been God because God did it."

Only because you deleted the part where I explain why I think God did it. I don't believe God did it because God must have done it, I believe God did it because this world is clearly an intelligent contrivance. Big difference. It's not blind faith, it is empirical assessment of reality.

Basically you are saying, since at this point man can't explain to me how/why, that is called a gap in our understanding, I can only assume it was god.

That is why it is called the "god of the gaps" fallacy.

No I have evidence for God doing it, because the world indicates design from the micro to the macro scale. "Evolution did it" is the true blind god of the gaps theory, since it is both empirically untestable, and against the clear logical nature of biological organisms.

Bingo, well said.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: cooperton
Only because you deleted the part where I explain why I think God did it. I don't believe God did it because God must have done it, I believe God did it because this world is clearly an intelligent contrivance. Big difference. It's not blind faith, it is empirical assessment of reality.

Sorry, that is where the "I don't believe in chance" part I stated earlier comes into play. Why "you" think god did it is because "we" don't have an answer, we have a gap.

No I have evidence for God doing it, because the world indicates design from the micro to the macro scale. "Evolution did it" is the true blind god of the gaps theory, since it is both empirically untestable, and against the clear logical nature of biological organisms.

Evolution is actually sheer blind Faith. It comes down to this, the rate of ions and carbon dating, that change that is measured to millions and billions of years is dependent on the rate that ions change into other atoms.

Science and evolution is putting 100% sheer faith in the notion that the rate of decay of the ions is the same today as it was in the past and will be in the future. There is zero evidence to support this claim, it is 100% assumption. Even the theory of Big bang has instances were causality or different IE the inflation where the universe grew faster than the speed of light, that tells you right there there is inconsistency in your whole model. The Big bang actually has evidence against the theory of evolution!

The Big bang it itself is dependent upon redshift, again if the laws of causality can change, this is 100% theoretical. Again it depends on is a pass the same as a feature and will be as it is now.

And the fourth dimensional structure of DNA and the protein structure mentioned in this article, clearly show the evidence that God is real and he is the creator. And I really do appreciate the fact that some people here are mentioning the fact that this is not blind faith how long this is based on well thought out empirical view of reality. Is a clash of worldviews.

For God will make foolish the wisdom of the world, and the wisdom of the world is proven time and time again wrong in an error, why would anyone put their faith in that especially when there's contrary evidence, and smack in the face against prophecy which is beyond any theoretical knowledge and understanding of man, that is truly beyond man. Only God can prophesy events to come and have them happen in a world where he created free thinking Free Will beings, his sovereignty is 100%, so he's accomplishing his will often through creatures that he created that opposes will. Just as a crucified Christ, clearly the creation opposing his will, but through that he gave the salvation of man and the defeat of Satan.

Truly, if you are lucky enough to see the son of man descending on clouds or make it into the new millennium, I can't imagine any other issue where God clearly makes foolish the wisdom of man, which is so happens to try to prove he does not exist, and the implications of that are literally a god of nothing and and a god of death, for that is what survival of the fittest is an evolution, whereas we have a god of life and loss of evidence in the natural world and prophecy and I'm not to mention the holy Spirit within ourselves bearing testimony to Jesus and our love of righteousness within I'm not to mention millions of other people whose lives have been drastically changed through the word and Christ and holy spirit. Let not anyone claim that there's no evidence to believe in God. That's actually the much stronger case, through and through, and there's so many wonderful benefits to believing that as well, it's a huge blessing where is the opposite, is a curse to the world, not unlike the events of world war II and all that communist nonsense that killed lots of people, the Core of was atheism.

Yet some people have the gull to claim that God does not exist and that his word is not 100% accurate and describing the true state of man against man, and a relationship to God. The Bible claims man is 100% bad, and there's plenty of evidence in history to support this, anything of being and a right situation will choose the wrong thing, selfishness on corruption upon corruption. Can any human being actually claim this is not true, cuz they would be making God a liar.

Don't get me wrong, I used to believe in the theory of evolution and all this other nonsense they continually throw at me, but what really makes me angry is the fact that they don't spend a lot of time on the core mechanism of all these beliefs, is entirely based on sheer faith I'm not unlike Christianity, what Christianity actually has solid prophecy to back it up which is beyond time knowledge of man, therefore as much stronger argument. Yes they do emphasize it being theory but you really have to stop and think that means. Yes it's all theory so you had to take it on faith, but they won't use the word faith, they are scared of death of that word because they don't want anything to remind them but they have chosen darkness over light, so they can continue in their sin, not knowing anything better.

If only they knew that God has the ability out of the goodness of his heart to literally create an entirely new dimension of spiritual existence and spiritual value and worth that is so far above any sin and fleshly physical desire, it's laughable. The love of righteousness is clean pure and vastly more fulfilling than anything else, there's nothing quite like it. To me a universe or an eternity or society or people has no value without the righteousness of God, which is a very fabric of all reality and for without it nothing can be sustained, and without it nothing can be balanced onto eternity, cuz making the right decision at all times which only God can do requires having infinite knowledge, infinite power, and being beyond Time, and haven't complete solver control of everything only then can one make a righteous decision. Man not having this, any decision he makes I've given enough time to play out, already carries a seeds within it his eternal Doom.

Artificial intelligence, atomic bomb and all these pestilences that man creates, and in the future the neuralink emerging with AI, are you kidding me, without the righteousness of God, man is doomed, without the righteousness of God to balance a sustainable reality, it won't last longer long, for the very first thing such a person would see with the eyes of their understanding of the word of God, is how much of that an abomination of these things are, so they would not be invented, therefore they just bought more time.

In the end times God removes the restraining and man doesn't even last three and a half years without the entire Earth being destroyed, another testimony that the righteousness of God is Paramount and needs to be in the heart of man and will be in the coming new universe and Earth this is a temporary Earth and universe.

a reply to: TTU77
TLDR, since I am not actually a member of the church of evolution.

One thing is true though, that side is still working on it, the other side just wants to preach.

Fascinating to see this subject is still going. You can bring a horse to water... but you cannot make it drink. Pick your side.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: TTU77
TLDR, since I am not actually a member of the church of evolution.

One thing is true though, that side is still working on it, the other side just wants to preach.

Which is where your deception lies, you are a church of that whether you admit it or not if you claim to believe in it, both entirely depend on faith, if you read my post you might see why. But not only are you a church of it, your god is actually the god of nothing and of death which is literally the satanic doctrine of demons which leads people to straight to hell.

You claim your side is working on it, and I say so is God and fulfilling prophecies day by day. Israel as a nation came up after 2,000 years, that's prophecy. It might be rebuilding the third Temple in israel, that's prophecy.
People not knowing if their man or a woman, that's prophecy, and a judgment of God give people over to their own judgment. Very notion of science itself is prophecy, chasing after knowledge to turn themselves to be like God.

Your side will never outrun prophecy, for the time to be shorter than you know.

a reply to: TTU77
So now you are going to try to tell me what I believe?

What if I told you that I believe in a creator but that that creator isn't "your god" and "your book" isn't accurate, would I still be part of the church of evolution?

You do realize that your religion isn't the only religion that exists. Although I understand that is the only one you can preach, which is what all these types of threads are about, sprinkled with a little bit of science and logical fallacies to try and cover up the bias.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: TTU77
So now you are going to try to tell me what I believe?

What if I told you that I believe in a creator but that that creator isn't "your god" and "your book" isn't accurate, would I still be part of the church of evolution?

You do realize that your religion isn't the only religion that exists. Although I understand that is the only one you can preach, which is what all these types of threads are about, sprinkled with a little bit of science and logical fallacies to try and cover up the bias.

Apologies, I can understand why you would think it comes across that way, however I'm kind of just pointing out the implications of that belief.

Time is short. God is calling people out from this world who choose to love righteousness over sin, thus proving his way is right.

He has given us prophecy that has come true time and time again and is increasingly doing so, so there is no excuse to not believe in him or to believe in any of these other religions. Also nothing in the Bible that it speaks about has science proven false unlike other religions. I think Hindu and one of their holy text had mentions at the universe is like that was a different levels of cheese and wine and whatnot.

I am aware of the religions exist and I'm 100% confident mine is correct because it accurately describes the human condition and because it has so much prophecy coming true. It also makes more logical sense to me, one cannot earn their way to heaven, or earn eternal life. If Heaven and eternal life exists that's not something man has the power within himself to obtain, just as it's not within his power to create his own life he's not the creator of his life.

Therefore if Heaven and eternal life exist the only way to access it is the same source as the Creator which gave life. Just as life is a gift, so too would eternal life be a gift, just have to believe in the name of his son and there's a million reasons why that's so critical and important and prepares us for an eternity with God, it's beautiful. All the other religions you have to work for it, or seek something crazy like non-existence, and reincarnation.

Compared to the word of God and prophecy all these are nonsense, just like all the wisdom of man.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: TTU77
So now you are going to try to tell me what I believe?

What if I told you that I believe in a creator but that that creator isn't "your god" and "your book" isn't accurate, would I still be part of the church of evolution?

You do realize that your religion isn't the only religion that exists. Although I understand that is the only one you can preach, which is what all these types of threads are about, sprinkled with a little bit of science and logical fallacies to try and cover up the bias.

At least read this bit of portion of what I wrote that you might not have read as you claimed, but this is why evolution and big bang is based on faith and why I think it's important for you to at least recognize this. If you have to choose between two different faiths why not choose the one with proven prophecy and which promises eternal life and to give you a new spirit of God within you that you would love righteousness above anything that satisfies the flesh.



Science and evolution is putting 100% sheer faith in the notion that the rate of decay of the ions is the same today as it was in the past and will be in the future. There is zero evidence to support this claim, it is 100% assumption. Even the theory of Big bang has instances were causality or different IE the inflation where the universe grew faster than the speed of light, that tells you right there there is inconsistency in your whole model. The Big bang actually has evidence against the theory of evolution!

The Big bang it itself is dependent upon redshift, again if the laws of causality can change, this is 100% theoretical. Again it depends on is a pass the same as a feature and will be as it is now.

originally posted by: TTU77
If you have to choose between two different faiths why not choose the one with proven prophecy and which promises eternal life and to give you a new spirit of God within you that you would love righteousness above anything that satisfies the flesh.

You might have missed my post about OBEs. The same type of experiences that probably sparked the ideas in your holy book. I came away with something different than what is in the bible.

I simply can't go with the one from second hand sources that "promises things" and was probably altered by people in power over time, when my first hand experience tells me something different.

That being said, I don't know who/what the creator was or how they went about it, maybe terra forming and planting seeds gave not only the spark but also the diversity of life on the planet, which would mean the time calculated in the OP is insignificant. Could be that evolution also happens along with this.

We don't know with certainty but some on both of those sides sure do like to talk like they do. Like I said, the science side is still trying while the religious side is just preaching and now trying to cherry pick science for things they can spin to make their argument.

a reply to: TTU77

There is evidence to show the rate of decay does not change over time. Take a look at the natural nuclear reactor in Oklo. There is no faith in the evidence there.

Red and blue shifts have nothing to do with the universe, they are one way of measuring rates of change over large distances, and so are suitable for measuring rates of change in our galaxy and the wider universe.

Finally, 'the big bang' is not yet an absolute certainty as to why or how the universe exists. All we know for certain is that the universe is expanding (and therefore must have been smaller in the past) and there is a historical heat map still measurable in our universe (and therefore it must have been much hotter in the past).

There is not one piece of evidence for the existence of your god or anyone else's, but if there were, Hinduism would trump Abrahamic religions, which are all based on hatred and fear.

originally posted by: daskakik

Here you are not claiming this is a hypothesis but that you know, you don't.

I hypothesize that the engineered nature of reality is due to an engineer.

You are cherry picking things to argue your unfounded conclusion that "god did it".

No I don't need to cherry pick, all of biology is very obviously designed. Name any part of biology from the micro to the macro scale and you will see a brilliant symphony of designed components that allow it to function.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: TTU77
If you have to choose between two different faiths why not choose the one with proven prophecy and which promises eternal life and to give you a new spirit of God within you that you would love righteousness above anything that satisfies the flesh.

You might have missed my post about OBEs. The same type of experiences that probably sparked the ideas in your holy book. I came away with something different than what is in the bible.

I simply can't go with the one from second hand sources that "promises things" and was probably altered by people in power over time, when my first hand experience tells me something different.

That being said, I don't know who/what the creator was or how they went about it, maybe terra forming and planting seeds gave not only the spark but also the diversity of life on the planet, which would mean the time calculated in the OP is insignificant. Could be that evolution also happens along with this.

We don't know with certainty but some on both of those sides sure do like to talk like they do. Like I said, the science side is still trying while the religious side is just preaching and now trying to cherry pick science for things they can spin to make their argument.

OBE's confirms the bible, aka the spirit realm, which is also the realm of the fallen angels and demons. I've read bad experiences on this and when people would call on the name of the Lord, those evil spirit would stop, the same as when these "aliens" show up.

The Word of God is above experiences, period. No exeperience anyone ever has or how they feel should ever be used as evidence against or for God or a certain religion, or belief, as these can be fallable. How does one differentiate the religious experiences between a Hindu or a Christian? One doesn't! Experiences and feelings can be fooled - period. God knows this. That is why Peter said in the bible after witnessing Christ transfiguration, turn to light, that even this experience, shines more SURE light on the word of prophecy!!

I'm sure seeing the Lord transfigure himself this way pales to any other experience. The word of God is all we need.

Also, what do you mean second hand sources? How does OBE's explain prophecy? Why don't these OBE create prophecy so the world can test it? However, since these people have OBE and you, should we all throw out the bible and now take your word for everything?

You see how ridiculous that implication is? You seem to still no be possibly even acknowledge prophecy. Like whomever said in another thread, it's like your incapable of speaking truth in light of God, everyone is backwards and in direct opposition to the word of God he laid out.

I'm not saying God can't do miraculous things to people, but if at anytime it contradicts the word of God, it's from the devil, plan and simple.

originally posted by: TTU77

OBE's confirms the bible, aka the spirit realm, which is also the realm of the fallen angels and demons. I've read bad experiences on this and when people would call on the name of the Lord, those evil spirit would stop, the same as when these "aliens" show up.

That's what I was thinking too when I read his post. This verifies that the material world is not the creator of consciousness.

originally posted by: TerraLiga
a reply to: TTU77

There is evidence to show the rate of decay does not change over time. Take a look at the natural nuclear reactor in Oklo. There is no faith in the evidence there.

Red and blue shifts have nothing to do with the universe, they are one way of measuring rates of change over large distances, and so are suitable for measuring rates of change in our galaxy and the wider universe.

Finally, 'the big bang' is not yet an absolute certainty as to why or how the universe exists. All we know for certain is that the universe is expanding (and therefore must have been smaller in the past) and there is a historical heat map still measurable in our universe (and therefore it must have been much hotter in the past).

There is not one piece of evidence for the existence of your god or anyone else's, but if there were, Hinduism would trump Abrahamic religions, which are all based on hatred and fear.

The universe is expanding - do you know the bible says God stretches out the heavens?

Do you know in Hinduism, it says part of the level of the universe is wine and the other cheese, some crazy nonsense like that.

If any part of any religion is proved false, it should be discounted. You can't do this with the Bible.

The universe is vibration - boom - directly form Genesis.

Are you kidding me? How can you measure the decay rate to know for certain it's the same a billion years ago, as science claims, without travelling back it time to measure it. You can't measure the decay rate in the present and then extrapolate it into the past - it doesn't work that way! It will forever be in the realm of faith for it is untestable and there are many evidences contrary to this?

Why do some atoms of ions in them less than 8,000 Years old if all diamonds were created billions of years ago, or why do the rings of Saturn exist, they should have dissipated long ago.

Even the true nature of reality confirms creation from God, 4 Dimensional nature of DNA, etc, Galaxies as far back as the telescopes can look - this is direct evidence of creation, not a big bang, yet you can't see because your filter out this from your worldview.

I'm well aware of red shifts as well, they point to this distant age. I'm not denying the reality of the universe, HA. Truly, it seems the default status of anyone who discounts evolution and the big band and whom belief in the God the bible are but simpletons, but I'm positing the smartest people believe in God and the bible. Einstein believed in God too. The wool has been pulled over peoples eyes completely, their own faith in science is concealed from them - nay, it's logic - HA!

On the basis of evolutio there is no explanation for Logic and Reason. That is the perview and worldview of God, to make man in his image with the ability to reason. You can't get this from evolution, period! The same with morality!

The irony using reason to discount the existence of God. Because God exists you can use logic and there is no mechanism outside of God to explain this.

You can't get more complex things from less compless things. This science is revealing more and more. You can't get existence from nothing. The big band is all but a washed up theory for long time, yet it's still taught it schools.

Theory of Evolution and Big Bang is a faith and the secular wolrd and school systems are like

You travel everywhere to win one person to your faith. Then you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

originally posted by: Kreeate
Fascinating to see this subject is still going. You can bring a horse to water... but you cannot make it drink. Pick your side.

It seems both sides believe they have the water so to speak. Wouldn't you all prefer this is all part of a design and there's perpetuity to consciousness rather than this being a bleak accident that ends in eternal nothingness for all conscious beings forever?

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: TerraLiga
a reply to: TTU77

There is evidence to show the rate of decay does not change over time. Take a look at the natural nuclear reactor in Oklo. There is no faith in the evidence there.

Red and blue shifts have nothing to do with the universe, they are one way of measuring rates of change over large distances, and so are suitable for measuring rates of change in our galaxy and the wider universe.

Finally, 'the big bang' is not yet an absolute certainty as to why or how the universe exists. All we know for certain is that the universe is expanding (and therefore must have been smaller in the past) and there is a historical heat map still measurable in our universe (and therefore it must have been much hotter in the past).

There is not one piece of evidence for the existence of your god or anyone else's, but if there were, Hinduism would trump Abrahamic religions, which are all based on hatred and fear.

If any part of any religion is proved false, it should be discounted. You can't do this with the Bible.

I can't agree more. Let's have a look...

Job 39:9 “Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?
Job 39:10 “Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee?
Psalm 22:21 “But my horn shalt thou exalt like the horn of an unicorn: I shall be anointed with fresh oil.
Deuteronomy 33:17 “His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns:
Numbers 23:22 “God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.
Isaiah 34:7 “And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness
Psalm 29:6 “He maketh them also to skip like a calf; Lebanon and Sirion like a young unicorn.

Welcome to atheism my friend, it's a much happier, less guilt-ridden, more honest place without fear or favour.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Kreeate
Fascinating to see this subject is still going. You can bring a horse to water... but you cannot make it drink. Pick your side.

It seems both sides believe they have the water so to speak. Wouldn't you all prefer this is all part of a design and there's perpetuity to consciousness rather than this being a bleak accident that ends in eternal nothingness for all conscious beings forever?

Having the "water" is one thing. Irrespective of the side... bringing the horse to the water and making it drink is another situation entirely.

We all have different opinions. We are all set in our different "ways".
That's okay to me. I'm not pushing my side. Pick your side and let's discuss the difference of it to mine.
It's all about communication. Not about who is right or who is wrong. Exchange of ideas and information.
That is the basis of civilized discussion. Acceptance of an opposing perspective, whilst maintaining one's own standpoint.