The remarkable Pascagoula Alien Abduction case

Nick Redfern and Vallee talked about this possibility, my confidence on their point is 0. They have been publishing this type of counter intelligence material for a long time. Evidence is, "someone on the know told me", only that these ppl have been inserting deception forever in the field to mud the waters, and we have been swallowing for no good reason.
a reply to: AlienBorg

a reply to: AlienBorg

Thank-you! More proof that multiple species have visited, and do visit Earth.

originally posted by: chunder

originally posted by: RonnieJersey
a reply to: AlienBorg
Obviously we are being visited by robots, examining us exactly the same way we examine animal life right here on earth. The real question is, who is sending these vehicles to our planet, and what is their ultimate intention?

Hi Ronnie, I disagree and unless you only associate the whole UFO and aliens phenomena with nuts and bolts craft (for which there is overwhelming evidence that is not the case) whatever it is it definitely isn't the obvious. Whatever it is obviously has abilities way in advance of the need to send vehicles to our planet with robots.

However, the real question remains the same.

Hi, I disagree because I saw one of these vehicles myself, and they are 'nuts and bolts crafts' as you call them.
Also, many of them have left various landing marks on our ground, which would not be possible if they were not physical vehicles.
They definitely are eons ahead of us technologically, and to have 'robots' (or whatever these beings are) piloting these craft is also evidence of their abilities.

I recently saw Calvin Parker get interviewed by that ex FBI guy, Ben Hansen (I believe is his name). From what I remember to this very day he lives in constant fear of these UFOs and E.T.s. I guess he's had many abductions over the years, which definitely points to Calvin getting some sort of alien implant "locator beacon" inserted in his body back in 77.

originally posted by: Oouthere
The Pascagoula area is a high abduction area, I spoke with Hickson on the phone a couple of times and was supposed to have had lunch with him but he became ill and passed. There was a lady working as a janitor in a nursing home in the area that had a saucier almost touch her hood at 3:00 a.m. in Gautier, she will no longer drive by herself at night. I know of at least a half dozen abductees in the area. My sister and I both saw hovering saucers, she in Moss Point and me in Gautier.

That's very interesting.

Can you describe your experiences and when did this happen?

originally posted by: chunder

originally posted by: RonnieJersey
a reply to: AlienBorg
Obviously we are being visited by robots, examining us exactly the same way we examine animal life right here on earth. The real question is, who is sending these vehicles to our planet, and what is their ultimate intention?

Hi Ronnie, I disagree and unless you only associate the whole UFO and aliens phenomena with nuts and bolts craft (for which there is overwhelming evidence that is not the case) whatever it is it definitely isn't the obvious. Whatever it is obviously has abilities way in advance of the need to send vehicles to our planet with robots.

However, the real question remains the same.

It's more than obvious the UFO phenomenon is real. And it is treated as very real or even as a threat by the armed forces and governments.

originally posted by: flamengo
Nick Redfern and Vallee talked about this possibility, my confidence on their point is 0. They have been publishing this type of counter intelligence material for a long time. Evidence is, "someone on the know told me", only that these ppl have been inserting deception forever in the field to mud the waters, and we have been swallowing for no good reason.
a reply to: AlienBorg

What I find interesting is that the sheriff's investigators initially didn't believe them. But eventually and after questioning there was a case even the police couldn't explain. The key points are the recorder taping left on purpose which didn't pick up what they expected to happen. The pair didn't lie about what happened, the recorder didn't record attempts at deception and talk that will incriminate the pair. Later on both have passed a polygraph test according to the police. Many years after this incident others have come forward to verify some mysterious sightings in the area at that time.

originally posted by: carewemust
Thank-you! More proof that multiple species have visited, and do visit Earth.

Wow! You have remarkably low standards of evidence for what you consider proof.

originally posted by: AlienBorg
It's more than obvious the UFO phenomenon is real. And it is treated as very real or even as a threat by the armed forces and governments.

There's plenty of scientific evidence for UFOs, including the three navy videos released by the pentagon. It doesn't say what they are, but it shows they exist.

However I've seen no scientific evidence people are actually abducted by aliens, even though many people claim this and apparently they really believe it.

originally posted by: AlienBorg
The pair didn't lie about what happened

Some authors allege that millions of people have had abduction experiences, and scientists who have researched this don't think the people recalling abduction experiences are lying.

But that can lead to false logic like, they say they were abducted, and they aren't lying, therefore they were abducted, but that's not how science works, especially these days where there are security cameras everywhere that could record at least some of these millions of abductions if they were actually taking place, but they never do. So what we end up researching scientifically is not the abductions, since there don't appear to be any, but rather, why do so many people think they were abducted and recall abduction experiences if they weren't abducted? One of the Harvard scientists who researched that subject talks about her research here.

Abducted: How People Come to Believe They Were Kidnapped by Aliens


She didn't find people were lying about their abduction experiences, but not lying doesn't necessarily mean it happened. Humans and their perceptions/misperceptions are complicated, and it's hard to understand either UFOs or the phenomena of abduction claims without understanding those subjects, which few people do.

originally posted by: flamengo
a reply to: chunder

There is overwhelming evidence that there is a "nuts and bolts" aspect to it, it is not because there are many mental aspects that the technological aspect disappears. That is exactly this type of intellectual disjunction that you are proposing that has been clogging a proper understanding of what is going on.

Firstly the different hypotheses are not totally mutually exclusive, it is conceivable that there is a NHI phenomenon at play and there is an unconnected physical ET visitation (or even connected just to muddy further). I didn't state anything to the contrary.

Secondly whilst there is physical trace evidence to indicate a "nuts and bolts" aspect there is no evidence it is "spacecraft", please provide an example of the "overwhelming evidence" ?

A phenomena which exhibits fleetingly as a mass within our atmosphere does not meet my criteria of a "nuts and bolts" craft - that would be something that is proven to have been manufactured and continue to exist as a physical object, not simply disappear.

In terms of clogging our understanding I would argue the opposite, our quest to observe and measure the physical is getting in the way of gaining a true understanding. I believe the outcome (if there ever is one) of all the recent UAP disclosures / hearings / study groups etc will bear that out.

a reply to: RonnieJersey

I have also "seen" craft - on one occasion as part of a multiple witness incident. I have no doubt that some of those occasions are beyond explanation in terms of our current technology.

However, I also do not think they met the criteria of physical "nuts and bolts" craft and even if I did I couldn't prove it.

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: chunder

originally posted by: RonnieJersey
a reply to: AlienBorg
Obviously we are being visited by robots, examining us exactly the same way we examine animal life right here on earth. The real question is, who is sending these vehicles to our planet, and what is their ultimate intention?

Hi Ronnie, I disagree and unless you only associate the whole UFO and aliens phenomena with nuts and bolts craft (for which there is overwhelming evidence that is not the case) whatever it is it definitely isn't the obvious. Whatever it is obviously has abilities way in advance of the need to send vehicles to our planet with robots.

However, the real question remains the same.

It's more than obvious the UFO phenomenon is real. And it is treated as very real or even as a threat by the armed forces and governments.

Where did I say the UFO phenomenon isn't real ?

I see many quotes about the armed services or govt's treating it seriously or as a threat but, aside from funding a few biased studies or the odd memo proclaiming it, where is the evidence that is actually the case ?

Real isn't even a question as there will always be UFO's and if anyone spent a modicum of time researching they would realise that if 5% of the reported phenomenon was true if it posed any kind of a threat there isn't much the armed services could do.

So what exactly have the govt's and armed services of this world done about it ?

chunder

Secondly whilst there is physical trace evidence to indicate a "nuts and bolts" aspect there is no evidence it is "spacecraft", please provide an example of the "overwhelming evidence" ?

A phenomena which exhibits fleetingly as a mass within our atmosphere does not meet my criteria of a "nuts and bolts" craft - that would be something that is proven to have been manufactured and continue to exist as a physical object, not simply disappear.

ok. let's not get into semantics here. And then again we can tackle the definition of nuts and bolts at other day. The best definition, not to get lost in translation is exactly the definition I am trying to push forward. "Made through artificial means", that would include holography and material craft, to me I would put them in the same category. .Vallee complicates matters at will, to save his ass. He and others gave info, then masquerade it. IMO.

In terms of clogging our understanding I would argue the opposite, our quest to observe and measure the physical is getting in the way of gaining a true understanding. I believe the outcome (if there ever is one) of all the recent UAP disclosures / hearings / study groups etc will bear that out.

Yes, you can blame the scientific establishment, that is pushing that everything should go through Popperian tests when their dearest theories, such as the selfish genes, don't meet the same criteria. To tackle the UFO, we must tackle first the scientific establishment and divulge how coercive and screwed it is.
Regards

a reply to: flamengo

Understood and made through artificial means is fair enough but for me "nuts and bolts" craft are a physical object capable of interplanetary travel - which pretty much amounts to the ETH.

I think most people when they refer to it mean that as opposed to something that can appear as an object with physical properties but can be manifested and dissapeared at will, which is an important distinction.

Important because, assuming a single cause for the phenomenon, once people stop looking at the issue from the ET perspective we might see some research in the right direction. However the signs aren't great, we have a whole generation being fed an alien agenda and it takes more than reading a couple of 140 character posts to understand that if ET is here, they didn't arrive in a metal container.

Here on earth we send vehicles to the moon, Mars, etc., to explore our solar system -
And other civilizations are doing the same, but they are much more advanced than we are. They are able to 'cloak' their vehicles and travel at spectacular speeds.
There are so many reported abductee experiences, it is ridiculous to assume all these people are lying or hallucinating. Betty and Barney Hill were really staggered and puzzled by their early experience in 1961, and there was physical evidence present.

a reply to: chunder
I believe the ETH is quite unattainable. Considering what we have been learning, to me it seems we know very little about the universe, and quantum in general, we already arrived at the point of "fuzziness". Thus to me, the idea of artificial universes linked together, and ours as a repository for narrative creation and data mining, or simulation, is a better explanation. Where higher intelligences can live drama and soap opera things. What generates some type of interesting emotions and things. That is where I am at at this moment. Mind you we are inside the black box, and it possibly won't be easy to look outside of it. We will just have to accept mounting elements of uncertainty, more nad more, instead of less and less.

a reply to: AlienBorg
These things are in fact, very common in ufology both ways. At times the person doesn't believe but a minor detail calls attention. But what happens more often than not, and it is quite exasperating, is that in many cases, everything seems right, but because of a minor issue, the investigator starts to disbelieve the case. But all cases have inconsistencies because that is how the ET defends the cases, it inserts small elements that will bring plausible deniability about.
Thus in the Hills case, they made Barney say some minor stull differently than Betty, and the generated shoeck waves, but there shouldn't be any really.

originally posted by: chunder

originally posted by: AlienBorg

originally posted by: chunder

originally posted by: RonnieJersey
a reply to: AlienBorg
Obviously we are being visited by robots, examining us exactly the same way we examine animal life right here on earth. The real question is, who is sending these vehicles to our planet, and what is their ultimate intention?

Hi Ronnie, I disagree and unless you only associate the whole UFO and aliens phenomena with nuts and bolts craft (for which there is overwhelming evidence that is not the case) whatever it is it definitely isn't the obvious. Whatever it is obviously has abilities way in advance of the need to send vehicles to our planet with robots.

However, the real question remains the same.

It's more than obvious the UFO phenomenon is real. And it is treated as very real or even as a threat by the armed forces and governments.

Where did I say the UFO phenomenon isn't real ?

I see many quotes about the armed services or govt's treating it seriously or as a threat but, aside from funding a few biased studies or the odd memo proclaiming it, where is the evidence that is actually the case ?

Real isn't even a question as there will always be UFO's and if anyone spent a modicum of time researching they would realise that if 5% of the reported phenomenon was true if it posed any kind of a threat there isn't much the armed services could do.

So what exactly have the govt's and armed services of this world done about it ?

What do you mean when you say a few biased studies and the odd Nemo proclaiming it? Surely the UFO phenomenon is much more than a report or an old memo and a story here and there.

I think everyone who has looked at this phenomenon agrees it's real and has probably been with us for a very long time, long before humans were able to have flying machines and the technology we started building up after the industrial revolution.

There are reasons the army wants as much secrecy as possible when it comes to UFOs and the phenomenon itself. It's difficult to maintain this secrecy forever but sensitive information shouldn't go in the hands of our adversaries. If it goes out in the public it goes to our adversaries. But again the time has passed and we don't live in the 50s anymore. Sooner or later mite information will become available.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: carewemust
Thank-you! More proof that multiple species have visited, and do visit Earth.

Wow! You have remarkably low standards of evidence for what you consider proof.

originally posted by: AlienBorg
It's more than obvious the UFO phenomenon is real. And it is treated as very real or even as a threat by the armed forces and governments.

There's plenty of scientific evidence for UFOs, including the three navy videos released by the pentagon. It doesn't say what they are, but it shows they exist.

However I've seen no scientific evidence people are actually abducted by aliens, even though many people claim this and apparently they really believe it.

originally posted by: AlienBorg
The pair didn't lie about what happened

Some authors allege that millions of people have had abduction experiences, and scientists who have researched this don't think the people recalling abduction experiences are lying.

But that can lead to false logic like, they say they were abducted, and they aren't lying, therefore they were abducted, but that's not how science works, especially these days where there are security cameras everywhere that could record at least some of these millions of abductions if they were actually taking place, but they never do. So what we end up researching scientifically is not the abductions, since there don't appear to be any, but rather, why do so many people think they were abducted and recall abduction experiences if they weren't abducted? One of the Harvard scientists who researched that subject talks about her research here.

Abducted: How People Come to Believe They Were Kidnapped by Aliens

She didn't find people were lying about their abduction experiences, but not lying doesn't necessarily mean it happened. Humans and their perceptions/misperceptions are complicated, and it's hard to understand either UFOs or the phenomena of abduction claims without understanding those subjects, which few people do.

I agree there is plenty of evidence for the existence of UFOs but it hasn't been obtained only in the last few years. Photographic, radar, and flim/video evidence has existed for many many decades. Some of it has come out by the government, some of it has been obtained as a result of whistleblowers and members of the armed forces sympathetic to the cause of disclosure.

The UFO phenomenon is real, we can all agree on this. The abduction cases are much more complicated and the phenomenon could be real but they doesn't imply these abductions happened by aliens or the UFO occupants are aliens.

The Alien Abduction cases were investigated in the past by Professor John Mack one of the most famous psychiatrists from Harvard. He came to the conclusion these people were not lying but we're truthful about their experiences. He wrote a number of books on the subject.

Having had these experiences doesn't necessarily imply these people were abducted but that they believe they have been abducted.

originally posted by: MisguidedAngel
I recently saw Calvin Parker get interviewed by that ex FBI guy, Ben Hansen (I believe is his name). From what I remember to this very day he lives in constant fear of these UFOs and E.T.s. I guess he's had many abductions over the years, which definitely points to Calvin getting some sort of alien implant "locator beacon" inserted in his body back in 77.

Is there any evidence he has had some alien implants?

originally posted by: AlienBorg
The Alien Abduction cases were investigated in the past by Professor John Mack one of the most famous psychiatrists from Harvard. He came to the conclusion these people were not lying but we're truthful about their experiences. He wrote a number of books on the subject.

Again it sounds like you are conflating "being truthful" with the recalled experiences being real and not some kind of recollection from a hypnogogic or hypnopompic state. The fact that they weren't actually abducted doesn't mean the "abductees" were lying, they actually thought they were.

You call John Mack famous, but I would say his flawed alien abduction research made him infamous, rather than famous, because hypnosis was already known to be a severely flawed tool when he used it and relied on it extensively, which destroyed his reputation among his colleagues. I think most abductees believe what they say, but John Mack apparently even believed a woman who pretended to be an abductee and lied.

The psychiatrist who wanted to believe

His professional reputation, however, was severely damaged. “He's not taken seriously by his colleagues anymore”, Arnold Relman, Emeritus Professor at Harvard Medical School, told the Los Angeles Times in 2001. Mack also faced fierce criticism from outside the academic community: journalist Donna Bassett posed as a so-called abductee, and made public details of a session during which Mack apparently believed her story of being kidnapped by aliens during the Cuban missile crisis, and witnessing a conference between Khrushchev and Kennedy held aboard a spaceship.

OK maybe that was not nice to pretend but there should be a way to tell the difference between people who are really abducted and those who are not, and today lots of people have cams in their homes that can monitor and record what happens 24 hours a day, and would show if they are actually being abducted.

Mack also apparently stopped practicing the professional standards he was well aware of, perhaps because he wanted to believe a little too much:

“My criterion for including or crediting an observation by an abductee”, Mack wrote, “is simply whether what has been reported was felt to be real by the experiencer and was communicated sincerely and authentically to me.” This was a surprising mistake for a psychiatrist of Mack's experience and standing. As Khantzian said, “if you listened to him, his rigorous way of critiquing things…there was a true juxtaposition that seemed contradictory.”

And this is why Mack lost all credibility. Mack of all people, should have known better, but he made that mistake anyway. Mack's colleagues had good things to say about him before he went off the rails.

Having had these experiences doesn't necessarily imply these people were abducted but that they believe they have been abducted.

Right, which is a completely separate issue from lying or telling the truth. They may not know what actually happened, they can only relate what experiences they recall, which in some cases might be a dream that seemed so real they thought it was real. Before the modern "alien abductions", back in the middle ages, it was not aliens but "demons" who were "abducting" people and maybe doing some anal probing or whatever.

Back in Europe in the Middle Ages, it was sex-crazed demons”. In other words, the basic experience of sleep paralysis remains the same—night time visitations by a malevolent force that interferes with one's body—but the creatures that populate both the experience and subsequent waking interpretations change.