What is the value of stocks on the stock market based on?

Stock values are determined by a variety of things. Without going in to too much detail, its basically performance, growth potential, market cap, and cash reserves. Day to day fluctuation is due to demand. Larger moves are typically the result of press releases, for example exceeding your Quarterly projection in both sales and profit margin. This means the company is doing well not just by making sales, but making profit as well, and growing.

Stock markets have always been the most consistent wealth generators for the general public. The key is to not be an emotional trader and remember that investing is a long term game. If your goal is to flip stocks quickly you will likely find yourself on the losing end. The exception to that are people with enormous amounts of cash to invest. You can buy $100,000 in stock and sell it an hour later and make $1000. Yeah, thats a lot of money to make in one hour, but, you could have lost it too. For the guys who can make those kinds of investments that $1000 is pretty much play money. You don't take out a second mortgage to do that kind of investing. Its not a sure thing.

The best plan for most investors in the three bucket rule. One is aggressive, meant to generate wealth. One is moderately conservative, meant to earn but not be exposed to excessive risk. The third is a relatively safe fund that offers protection against market volatility. At least one of those should be readily convertible to cash in case of emergency. How much you put in each bucket is derived by several factors unique to your situation. It is not the same for everyone.

By far the majority of my investing is in funds relating to specific sectors I feel offer some growth potential and minimal risk. There is only one individual stock now that I trade regularly. I have done very well with this stock and will continue to trade it in the future. In fact, I jut sold about a week ago making a nice profit. Since then the stock has dropped roughly $23 a share. If it drops another $3 to $5 a share I will buy back in. I expect to ride that stock back up to my last sell point by the end of the year.

As for determining the wealth of guys who have the majority of their value in stock, its more than just the price of the stock at any given time. Its the money they can borrow against that stock value. If they have a billion in stock, they can take a loan against that billion. If the stock makes 5% annually and the interest on the loan is 3%, they make money buy borrowing against their own worth. That is how they have stock and spendable cash at the same time.

originally posted by: Astyanax

It gets complicated. Big investment firms have large teams of people looking at all these variables and stitching together their findings and forecasts in order to advise their customers what to buy and what to sell. [I]In reality, though, their predictions have a big component of hit-and-miss in them. A reasonably well-informed person making their own investment decisions may do just as well, sometimes better. It’s a dangerous game either way.[/I]

I invest in stocks. I’ve made a bit of money out of them over the years. Not millions and millions, but some.

Well worth the read. Thanks.

But this subject brings up a question of my own: The U.S. economy is obviously in significant decline and the geo-political climate is and will continue to impact the algebra. This BRICS thing seems significant. So does anyone have strategies for wealth preservation outside of their hope for their stock holdings continuing to impact their bottom line?

a reply to: Vroomfondel

In your opinion what would be the safest way for a fairly consistent 10% on, say, a $100,000 investment?

a reply to: Ch1nch1lla

Bezos is difficult to track. After the US Government, Bezos is the biggest land owner in the US. He has slowly been buying up America in order to future proof his investments. Even if we all started boycotting Amazon, he has distanced himself and transferred his wealth into realty. And it is impossible to estimate how much all that land is worth from year to year.

You know when you drive on a highway and look at the open tracts of land on the sides and wonder who might own all that openness? It's most likely Bezos.

a reply to: The GUT

With $100k I would go to Fidelity and hand it to them. You can get 5% just with a savings account right now. Another 5% in a fairly safe environment should be no problem for them. Safety generally means diversification. A good money manager will have his/her go-to funds for investors such as yourself. I use Fidelity for the bigger stuff and leave the small stuff to myself to have some fun with and actually make a few bucks here and there.

Nothing is guaranteed and any investment can result in a loss. But 10% is fairly modest and with interest rates where they are right now that is very achievable.

Like most things, they’re worth what people are prepared to pay for them.

a reply to: Ch1nch1lla

originally posted by: datguy
a reply to: The GUT
Cryptocurrency seems to be the way to go and i have some in etherium because i dont like the idea of buying fractional shares of bitcoin, seems like scam to me (fractional shares, not bitcoin)

Then I suggest you actually study bitcoin because you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

Sats (Satoshi's) are fractions of bitcoin, yes, but they are not 'shares', they are simply less than a whole bitcoin.

The fact that bitcoin is divisible is one of its strengths, and what makes it perfectly viable for a transactional currency as well as a store of long term value.

Also, sats are also divisible into millisats (one thousandth of a sat) on the Lightning network, although there are still some minor issues with using them (rounding errors when a channel unilaterally closes), since a sat is the smallest unit the main chain recognizes.

But your comment about not wanting to buy bitcoin because you don't want to buy fractions isas silly as saying you don't want to hold any cash that is less than a hundred dollar bill.

Eth will never succeed in the long run, it can't, because it isn't decentralized, and can be manipulated. And if we have learned anything from history, it is that if something can be manipulated, it will be manipulated.

originally posted by: The GUT
a reply to: datguy
Diversification through un-diversification has been my intuition too although I'm not as knowledgeable as yourself concerning the market. And as much as I want to trust crypto I just can't and the learning curve seems a little steep if you don't want to take a bath. Commodities are talking to me lately.

Anyone who lumps bitcoin in with the generic term 'crypto' doesn't understand bitcoin. It stands unique and apart from all others.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: Ch1nch1lla
I invest in stocks. I’ve made a bit of money out of them over the years. Not millions and millions, but some.

I'd wager that if you adjusted for inflation - real inflation - you'd be surprised to learn that you actually haven't gained anything, you've lost, but not as much as if you'd stuffed your cash into a mattress.

originally posted by: The GUT
a reply to: Vroomfondel

In your opinion what would be the safest way for a fairly consistent 10% on, say, a $100,000 investment?

Assuming that you don't need accrss to your funds for at least 4-5 years...

Just take a gander at the returns since it has been in existence - this page shows you just the returns on bitcoin, then compares it to real estate and the stock market (the S&P)., that is what I would do. For $100k, you'd get a little over 3 bitcoins right now, and it is currently in a bear market, so the best time to buy.

a reply to: tanstaafl

oh your one of those....Let me guess you own a bunch of deflated NFT's and some GME shares too?

your right I don't know much about bitcoin. I also dont care to until the federal reserve decides to classify it.
Not because I trust the FED but because the federal government and the big banks do and they have every chance to manipulate it just like the rest of the market, why do you think the Government owns almost 6 billion wort, which most of which they stole...but its decentralized...I'm laughing here.
If you want to talk about the block chain technology then separate that from whatever value an item on that block chain holds, it still only has the value of what someone wants to pay for it. Wait till the next time the Government sells and tell me how your investment is doing.

Stock shares, fractional satoshi's, same difference when it comes to any exchange traded funds. The exchanges allow it because they can funnel funds from it and make a killing. Robinhood anyone?... biggest scam in the game, donlt use robinhood exchange they have the control to front run any trade you make but they only get the kickbacks from big money they use to do it and they still make a mint

I got into a lot of # coins, made some good cash doing it but it was just luck and a little good timing, so glad i hate Elon, made a killing on doge and his SNL BS

Have my limits set for my ETH either way, when it hits, up or down I'm out, the only coin I will hold is Stellar XLM, at least like I said, until the FED defines it, then I will feel safer with my gamble.

*NOT financial advice

originally posted by: datguy
a reply to: tanstaafl

oh your one of those....

Yes, I guess I am... if by 'one of those' you mean someone who calls out people when they are talking out of their backside.

Let me guess you own a bunch of deflated NFT's and some GME shares too?

No, thankfully I was too smart to fall for any of the rah-rah-hoopla surrounding the fake #coins and NFT silliness.

your right I don't know much about bitcoin.

Obliviously...

I also dont care to until the federal reserve decides to classify it.

Yes, thinking for oneself can require a little effort.

Not because I trust the FED but because the federal government and the big banks do and they have every chance to manipulate it just like the rest of the market,

Yes... except they can't manipulate bitcoin. The fact that you would make such a statement just reiterates your lack of knowledge.

why do you think the Government owns almost 6 billion wort, which most of which they stole...but its decentralized...I'm laughing here.

The one has nothing whatsoever to do with the other.

Reminds me of the old saying...

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."

Anyone can own bitcoin, even governments, and that is in fact one of its strengths and best qualities - It is completely and totally unbiased and politically agnostic.

If you want to talk about the block chain technology then separate that from whatever value an item on that block chain holds, it still only has the value of what someone wants to pay for it. Wait till the next time the Government sells and tell me how your investment is doing.

See above old saying...

Stock shares, fractional satoshi's, same difference when it comes to any exchange traded funds.

Again, you are factually incorrect, you can take 100% ownership of your sats, unlike stocks or ETFs.

The exchanges allow it because they can funnel funds from it and make a killing. Robinhood anyone?

Bitcoin transfers always have an associated fee - but you can easily see what it is - in fact, you can limit what you're willing to pay if you're willing to wait a little longer for the transaction to finish. Different exchanges work differently too - with Swan Bitcoin, you pay 0.99% when buying, but there are NO fees when sweeping your sats to cold storage.

I got into a lot of # coins, made some good cash doing it but it was just luck and a little good timing, so glad i hate Elon, made a killing on doge and his SNL BS

Have my limits set for my ETH either way, when it hits, up or down I'm out, the only coin I will hold is Stellar XLM, at least like I said, until the FED defines it, then I will feel safer with my gamble.

Your problem is you're thinking about bitcoin as a trader. For the time being, it is and will remain volatile, but as long as you're in it for the long haul, it doesn't matter.

Oh - and you'll buy ETH - a scam coin that pretends to be decentralized but is provably not (they already rolled the chain back once, and they can do it again) and can be easily manipulated (especially with regard to how many coins are available), but not BTC, which is 100% provably decentralized, and has a strict limit on the number of coins that can ever exist?

*NOT financial advice

Obliviously...

a reply to: tanstaafl
its funny how you pick apart everything I said and insult me for it. Typical for someone who cant provide any substantial claims in support of your view points and opinions except that I'm a fool and Oblivious.

First off, i never said governments couldn't own bitcoin, btw how's El Salvador doing, what's their losses now, about 25%? But the US doesnt care about value, again because they didn't pay for them, wait for the rug pull

Oh yeah and lets talk again in five years when scarcity hits and there are no more coins mined or buyers probably less than 5 years. DO you know what happens to any asset when there aren't any buyers?
Time is running out for your satoshis, good luck with that

I noticed you don't want to talk about block chains

originally posted by: datguy
a reply to: tanstaafl
its funny how you pick apart everything I said and insult me for it.

It's called tit for tat - meaning, if you don't want to be insulted, don't be insulting.

Typical for someone who cant provide any substantial claims in support of your view points and opinions except that I'm a fool and Oblivious.

I have stated simple facts, no claims. What facts that I stated (that you apparently perceive as claims) need to be backed up?

First off, i never said governments couldn't own bitcoin

Where did I claim otherwise?

btw how's El Salvador doing, what's their losses now, about 25%?

It isn't a loss unless/until they sell it, which they won't do. I'll let you know how they're doing after the upcoming bull run that always happens after the halving next April.

But the US doesnt care about value, again because they didn't pay for them, wait for the rug pull

Ok, I'll bite..., what do you mean by 'rug pull'?

Oh yeah and lets talk again in five years when scarcity hits

Scarcity only makes the price rise - you do know that, right?

and there are no more coins mined or buyers probably less than 5 years.

The last bitcoin won't be mined for another hundred years or so...

DO you know what happens to any asset when there aren't any buyers?

Big ass-u-me-ption there. But go ahead, tell me why there won
t be any more buyers... especially considering the fact that big institutional money is prepping to jump in via the dozen or more Spot ETFs that will almost certainly be approved in the next 6-12 months.

Time is running out for your satoshis, good luck with that

Time is running out for your fiat FRNs... good luck with that.

I noticed you don't want to talk about block chains

I'm happy to talk about block chains - so whatcha got?

a reply to: tanstaafl

It's called tit for tat - meaning, if you don't want to be insulted, don't be insulting.

I insulted you? maybe your just a bit over sensitive?

I have stated simple facts, no claims. What facts that I stated (that you apparently perceive as claims) need to be backed up?

Which facts? you haven't presented any, in fact the claims you make that are false are addressed below

It isn't a loss unless/until they sell it, which they won't do. I'll let you know how they're doing after the upcoming bull run that always happens after the halving next April.

Ok, ill wait here

Ok, I'll bite..., what do you mean by 'rug pull'?

Rug pull is a term used in trading when a company waits for the price to increase and then sells of a majority of shares, causing major price drops.

Scarcity only makes the price rise - you do know that, right?

IF there are buyers willing to pay inflated prices, it is still a traded asset and vulnerble to the laws of supply and demand

The last bitcoin won't be mined for another hundred years or so...

About 900 Bitcoins are mined every day, and there are only about 1,500,000 left to be mined, do the math

Big ass-u-me-ption there. But go ahead, tell me why there won
t be any more buyers... especially considering the fact that big institutional money is prepping to jump in via the dozen or more Spot ETFs that will almost certainly be approved in the next 6-12 months.

It wasn't an assumption it was a question, see the punctuation?
Clearly you make the assumption that scarcity causes an increase, when in reality it only causes decrease in supply.
Those spot ETFs are run by the companies that already own most of the bitcoin, are suggesting that they are going to buy their own bitcoins?
Are you referring to the SEC delay till next year of the same ETFs that have been pushed back every time for the past few years they have been applied for?

COINTELEGRAPH

The company (BlackRock) later added a “surveillance-sharing agreement” with cryptocurrency exchange Coinbase following reports the SEC could be more open to accepting an ETF application under such conditions.

DECENTRALIZED ... LMFAO new definiton to the term Co-Intel
Im guessing it will be ready just in tome for the FED to release CBDC's

I'm happy to talk about block chains - so whatcha got?

Its the blockchain that lends to the concept of what a "decentralized" asset is, it doesn't matter if its etherium or bitcoin, neither are 100% secure as we have seen in events involving both assets.
How did the US get the Bitcoins they have? They didn't buy them, they took, trust that they can manipulate it if and when they want
Take away the asset and you have a great technology that could be utilized for more than ponzi scheme.

originally posted by: datguy
a reply to: tanstaafl

It's called tit for tat - meaning, if you don't want to be insulted, don't be insulting.

I insulted you? maybe your just a bit over sensitive?

Pot, meet kettle.

Which facts? you haven't presented any, in fact the claims you make that are false are addressed below

We'll see...

Rug pull is a term used in trading when a company waits for the price to increase and then sells of a majority of shares, causing major price drops.

Thats what I thought you likely meant, but wanted to be sure before I pointed the absurdity of someone selling off a few billion impacting the price in any meaningful long term way.

Sure, the price would dip, but all that does is provide a buying opportunity for the smart money - just like has happened many times in the past 13 years.

IF there are buyers willing to pay inflated prices, it is still a traded asset and vulnerble to the laws of supply and demand

Hasn't been a problem in the 13 years bitcoin has been around, but the one thing I will grant you is that it isn't a very long track record.

About 900 Bitcoins are mined every day, and there are only about 1,500,000 left to be mined, do the math

In order to do proper maths, one has to understand the underlying problem.

So you haven't heard of (or don't understand) the halving... you have a (little) reading to do.

It wasn't an assumption it was a question, see the punctuation?

I did, and I also understand context, and the insinuation was that there may come a time when there are no more buyers.

Pure FUD.

Clearly you make the assumption that scarcity causes an increase, when in reality it only causes decrease in supply.
Those spot ETFs are run by the companies that already own most of the bitcoin,

And your evidence for this is... ? (note: that was a rhetorical question, since you cannot prove it, because it is purely false)

are suggesting that they are going to buy their own bitcoins?

One buys 'bitcoin', they don't buy specific bitcoins - unless it is a private transaction. Of course if Blackrock owns some bitcoin, they could always move that into the ETF as customers place buy orders if they so choose - or they could buy more.

Are you referring to the SEC delay till next year of the same ETFs that have been pushed back every time for the past few years they have been applied for?

This is the very first one that either Blackrock or Fidelity - two of the biggest asset managers in the world - have applied for. The ones applied for over 3 or 4 years ago were outright rejected, not delayed for years.

"The company (BlackRock) later added a “surveillance-sharing agreement” with cryptocurrency exchange Coinbase following reports the SEC could be more open to accepting an ETF application under such conditions."

DECENTRALIZED ... LMFAO new definiton to the term Co-Intel

Not sure what you mean by that, since I never claimed that the Spot ETFs were 'decentralized', only the bitcoin protocol, which it clearly is - and is the ONLY one of ALL of the other cryptos that is.

Also, interestingly, these Spot BTC ETFs will actually be able to by audited by anyone who understands how to analuze the blockchain, so they will be able to see how much BTC they have vs what they are supposed to have, making it very difficult if not impossible for them to engage in rehypothecation.

Im guessing it will be ready just in tome for the FED to release CBDC's

Nothing whatsoever to do with it actually, but you do know that the Treasuries CBDC is doomed to failure.

I'm happy to talk about block chains - so whatcha got?

Its the blockchain that lends to the concept of what a "decentralized" asset is,
Again, just flat wrong. It is the protocol and how the network works. Anyone can run a node. Anyone. No permission needed.

it doesn't matter if its etherium or bitcoin, neither are 100% secure as we have seen in events involving both assets.

More FUD and false claims. The bitcoin blockchain has never been hacked. Never. Exchanges have been hacked, but not the protocol/blockchain. I don't know if the ETH blockchain has been or not, but I do know for a fact that it was rolled back once, which can never happen with bitcoin.

It is possible in the early days that the bitcoin network could have been hacked/hijacked, but it is far too late for that, the netrowk is waaaaay too strong and resilient now, due simply to the sheer number of nodes that are runninng.

How did the US get the Bitcoins they have? They didn't buy them, they took, trust that they can manipulate it if and when they want

If they got possession of the coins, it was either a) because it on an exchange, or they got ahold of the private keys. That is the only way they could have gotten them.

Take away the asset and you have a great technology that could be utilized for more than ponzi scheme.

So now you are claiming bitcoin is a ponzi scheme? Most if not all of the other #coins - including ETH - are definitely ponzis, but not bitcoin.

If you claim it is, then by all means, make your argument.

a reply to: tanstaafl
I've made my argument already, we could run around in circles all day with you deny everything that is presented without any evidence to back up your claims, but I wont waste my time as ive been up most of three days and dont have the energy to provide all the information.
All the information I have put forth could be searched and the claims backed up, I know because I research my trades, before I make them regard less of sycophants heresay, and if they don't stand up, I don't make them.
If you want to mislead people into making a bad trade/investment...thats on you
Go ahead and claim your victory as I bow out of this conversation.
good luck with your two bit coins, I don't want any.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: The GUT
a reply to: Vroomfondel

In your opinion what would be the safest way for a fairly consistent 10% on, say, a $100,000 investment?

Assuming that you don't need accrss to your funds for at least 4-5 years...

Just take a gander at the returns since it has been in existence - this page shows you just the returns on bitcoin, then compares it to real estate and the stock market (the S&P)., that is what I would do. For $100k, you'd get a little over 3 bitcoins right now, and it is currently in a bear market, so the best time to buy.

Not true. There are investment devices that allow you access to your funds at will. Part of any good investment strategy will have several facets that need to be considered. One is accessible cash in case of emergency. Others are varying degrees of stability and growth potential. More aggressive is okay for part of your strategy but not all. Same thing for conservative investing. Its great for safety but won't generate much income. And therein is the need for diversification. Some to be safe, some to be more aggressive, and some to be readily available in emergencies.

I would never put the bulk of my retirement in any kind of bitcoin or crypto. It anything, I would get exposure to those investments via a crypto fund that is also diversified. No investment is guaranteed, but I need more security than crypto can offer.

originally posted by: datguy
a reply to: tanstaafl
I've made my argument already,

All you've done is make some extremely incorrect claims making it clear you know nothing about bitcoin.

we could run around in circles all day with you deny everything that is presented without any evidence to back up your claims,

I would argue that my statements of fact are easily verifiable by anyone with half a brain.

but I wont waste my time as ive been up most of three days and dont have the energy to provide all the information.

Well, that would serve as a semi-reasonable excuse at least...

All the information I have put forth could be searched and the claims backed up,

Yeah, except... no, they are easily debunked.

I know because I research my trades, before I make them regard less of sycophants heresay, and if they don't stand up, I don't make them.

The fact that you bought ETH instead of BTC only shows just how badly wrong your research was.

If you want to mislead people into making a bad trade/investment...thats on you

I'm not trying to convince anyone to do anything, I simply stated my opinion - what I would do.

Go ahead and claim your victory as I bow out of this conversation.

Victory is mine!!! Hurrah!!!

good luck with your two bit coins, I don't want any.

Hah! I see what you did there... good one!

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: tanstaafl
Not true.

Be specific please - what, of the many things I said, is 'not true'?

There are investment devices that allow you access to your funds at will.

Since I didn't say there weren't, that couldn't be it.

Part of any good investment strategy will have several facets that need to be considered.

Sure... which is why I also have real estate.

One is accessible cash in case of emergency.

One can borrow against their bitcoin much faster than anything else, and I also maintain first position HELOCs on all of my (paid off) properties too (that was what I did before I found bitcoin).

I would never put the bulk of my retirement in any kind of bitcoin or crypto. It anything, I would get exposure to those investments via a crypto fund that is also diversified. No investment is guaranteed, but I need more security than crypto can offer.

Bitcoin is not 'crypto' you're talking about #coins.

Bitcoin is completely separate and different, and if you don't understand that, then you simply don't understand bitcoin.

The only way that bitcoin might fail is if WWIII happens and we lose the entire power grid/internet for many years... but it could still conceivably recover even from that, given the right conditions - meaning, some megalomaniac doesn't rise up from the ashes and turn our future into MadMax.

ETA: if there is one thing that is certain, it is that fiat monetary systems fail... always... every time. Some last longer than others, but they always fail. This has always lead to the total collapse of the civilization in question.

But, this time is different. This time, there is actually a perfectly viable, secure, powerful, de-centralized and inflation/manipulation proof alternative available in bitcoin. For those with the eyes to see.