FBI Targeting Traditional Catholics

originally posted by: FlyersFan2

originally posted by: Gandalf77
The author of the memo makes it clear that he/she is focusing on radical-traditionalist Catholic (RTC) ideology (antisemitism, anti-immigrant, anti-LGBTQ, white supremacist, etc.), as opposed to traditionalist Catholics who merely prefer the Latin mass and pre-Vatican II teachings.

It was a fishing expedition.
There was no evidence of any such people.
The FBI was looking to infiltrate the Traditionalists for no reason other than they are conservative.

Again, they're not concerned with mere traditionalists. They're concerned with the radicals. The memo makes that clear, but you keep leaving the "radical" part out. Discussing the potential for new mitigation opportunities hardly constitutes a fishing expedition.

And the very first paragraph suggests they have evidence that such people do exist (emphasis added):

"FBI Richmond assesses the increasingly observed interest of racially or ethnically
motivated violent extremists (RMVEs) in radical-traditionalist Catholic (RTC)a
ideology almost certainly presents opportunities for threat mitigation through the exploration of new avenues for
tripwire and source development. FBI Richmond makes this assessment with high confidence
based on FBI investigations, local law enforcement agency reporting, and liaison reporting, with
varying degrees of corroboration and access."

originally posted by: CryHavoc

originally posted by: FlyersFan2
So according to the FBI ... "Traditional" Catholics are possibly radical white supremacists who are domestic terrorists.
Yeah, beyond absurd but that's what they conjured up in their latest attack upon conservative Americans.
Kinda makes you wonder who the real terrorists are in this country.

So... the FBI is investigating a group who traditionally covers up Child Molesters?

And you're surprised by this?

Except now they are targeting the church members, not the clergy.

a reply to: FlyersFan2

It was a fishing expedition.
There was no evidence of any such people.
The FBI was looking to infiltrate the Traditionalists for no reason other than they are conservative.

No.

The first contact is described in the first bullet point page 2 of the memo:

 (U//FOUO) According to an FBI Richmond contact with direct access reporting for the first time, prior to RMVE actor(redacted) ’s (redacted)2022 arrest he had been attending the Society of Saint Pius Xd (SSPX)-affiliated (redacted) Virginia, for approximately seven months and was participating in catechism classes as part of the process to become baptized.1,2 Prior to attending (redacted) stated he wanted to find a church that was “anti-Zionist” and “antiprogressive” because “that’s where God lives.”3 In (redacted) extensive anti-Semitic, antiLGBTQ, and racist postings on the social media platform (redacted) claimed was a “radical traditional Catholic Clerical Fascist.” At the time of (redacted) arrest, eight Molotov cocktails, six smoke bombs, one smoke grenade, and firearms components consisting of a complete Glock 19 slide/upper receiver, a lower parts kit, a 3D printed Glock 19 frame, a magazine, and 9 mm ammunition were found in his possession

It started with a violent person's arrest.

What's sad is the Portland field office.

We have a huge, violent Antifa element here and they've been here for years yet they investigate church goers.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
What's sad is the Portland field office.

We have a huge, violent Antifa element here and they've been here for years yet they investigate church goers.

It’s gross
And unacceptable

Finally, the FBI going after pedophiles.

FBI might wanna be careful knocking on this particular door.

The Catholic Religion is overwhelmingly dominated by Hispanic Countries/peoples and Cultures at this point .

This could very well blow up in there face.

originally posted by: hateyourgovt
Finally, the FBI going after pedophiles.

They've arrested Biden?

SPAM

a reply to: Gandalf77

So the FBI is too big to control and occasionally goes overboard producing documents that would be publicly embarrassing? Really, it happens all the time but they clean up their own internal messes. Uh, sure thing. You betcha.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: FlyersFan2

So they only stopped because they got caught.

Wonder when they'll start again.

or more likely gone covert underground hidden

originally posted by: Gandalf77
they're not concerned with mere traditionalists. They're concerned with the radicals.

The wording of the memo says radical traditionalists as in being a traditionalist makes one a radical.

Christian Post

The head of America’s largest Catholic civil rights organization wants to know why federal investigators targeted mainstream Catholics as “potential domestic terrorists.”

Bill Donahue, president of the Catholic League, sent a public letter Wednesday to House Judiciary Chairman Rep. Jim Jordan, R-Ohio, after the panel revealed the FBI's Richmond Field Office “coordinated with multiple FBI field offices across the country” to produce a Jan. 23 memo which identified “radical-traditionalist Catholic ideology” as a potential security threat.

According to the Judiciary Committee, the new finding “contradicts [FBI Director Christopher] Wray’s July 12, 2023, testimony before the Committee, when he stated the FBI’s actions were limited to ‘a single field office.’”

a reply to: DBCowboy

I mean, he was raised Catholic. I was attempting to be humorous, but thanks for furthering my point.

originally posted by: FlyersFan2
So according to the FBI ... "Traditional" Catholics are possibly radical white supremacists who are domestic terrorists.
Yeah, beyond absurd but that's what they conjured up in their latest attack upon conservative Americans.
Kinda makes you wonder who the real terrorists are in this country.

Fox News

House Republicans say FBI documents they've obtained prove that several field offices contributed to a memo that targeted traditionalist Catholics as "potential terrorists," conflicting with recent sworn testimony from FBI Director Christopher Wray.

Republican leadership on the House Judiciary Committee revealed in a letter sent to Wray on Wednesday that said the document they subpoenaed from the agency details how "both FBI Portland and FBI Los Angeles field offices were involved in or contributed to the creation of FBI’s assessment of traditional Catholics as potential domestic terrorists."

"This new information suggests that the FBI’s use of its law enforcement capabilities to intrude on American’s First Amendment rights is more widespread than initially suspected," Chairman Jim Jordan, R-Ohio, and co-chair Rep. Mike Johnson, R-La., wrote in the letter.

Catholic News Agency

The U.S. House Judiciary Committee on Wednesday claimed to have uncovered evidence of “multiple” field offices of the Federal Bureau of Investigation coordinating an investigation into traditionalist Catholics earlier this year.

A leaked memo from the FBI’s Richmond, Virginia, field office, published on the internet in February of this year, discussed investigating “radical traditionalist” Catholics who the bureau alleged may have been part of a “far-right white nationalist movement.”

For those who don't know, the Catholic church has Novus Ordo Catholics who go to the English speaking Mass and worship according to Vatican II, and Traditional Catholics who go to the Latin Mass and are mostly pre-Vatican II in their worship. The Traditional Catholics are a smaller group and Traditional Catholics sometimes do not accept the Pope and the Mass changes since Vatican II in the 1960s.

For full disclosure, I'm a conservative Catholilc (pray the Rosary ever day, pray Novenas as they come up in the church calendar, read about the Saints, and I used to go on pilgrimages (Medjugorje, Betania, etc) when I could still travel, that kind of thing). I think Vatican II was a nightmare for the Church and has greatly harmed it. I like the Traditional Catholics way of doing things but am still Novus Ordo.

I don’t feel any empathy for the Roman Catholic Church or the people who put money into it’s foul coffers. The Roman Catholic Church has been a hinderance to the world for long enough.
Dear God protect me from your followers.

its easy to see the why, the only reason the allies didn't copy the wholesale sterilisation, euthanasia and mutilation as adopted by the nazis from liberalism is that traditional christians blocked them, they are not to be confused with the churches or priests who welcomed the eugenicist ideals of purity..

from preaching eugenics
Certifying Eugenic Purity in the Churches

This chapter further places religious leaders’ enthusiasm for eugenics in the context of both Progressivism and the Social Gospel movement. As eugenic ideas gained in popularity, religious leaders such as Rev. Walter Taylor Sumner, a Protestant Episcopal Dean in Chicago, began crafting their own eugenic proposals, which they administered in their churches.

the idea of using lethal chambers to rid the elite of the genetically inferior poor whites was deeply embedded in allied culture well before hitler even got into the trenches of ww1

I'm a Catholic, but a bit of a progressive, not too progressive, I recently walked out of Mass because of some new changes our local parish had implemented that I couldn't abide by because I felt anger welling up in me and I didn't want to be a burning fount of hostility in a scared space, but I digress.

There are many different kinds of Masses and many different kinds of Catholics, but we usually only hear about the major factions. I know very little about the wealth of history and workings of the Faith as I am a convert (born into a Methodist family, converted when my mom married my stepdad in my teens), but I enjoy the rituals and the structured nature of the Church.

There are no doubt some very Draconian elements in some parts and membership of the Church, and I have met and crossed paths with some very stern and unforgiving elders (think Inquisition level stuff) and it was challenging to explain that I am a simple person, with a big heart, doing my best and trying to understand God's path for me and to work within that framework accordingly.

It saddens me to know that the strict hard line disciplinarians and "Hand of God" judgemental types might be planning to harm someone, and I definitely don't condone such as Christ's message was of peace, charity and goodwill, but given the state of the world and some of the behaviours coming to light in some areas of the greater populace, it doesn't surprise me that these types might feel "called to arms" to use a heavy hand.

I can't explain all the mysteries, I can only do what I am called to do in accordance with how I was created, and I suspect those hard line Catholics are going through the same human struggle of trying to discern their will from God's.

It's so complicated, as we are all flawed and all sinners, but I cannot judge someone else for I have not walked their path.

As far as the Traditional Latin Mass, I find it peaceful and serene, even though I don't understand very much Latin.

I also haven't been privy to any Mass outside of the ones I've attended, so I have no idea what might be driving these extremist groups, should they actually exist.

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

that sounds like protestant, anglican and catholic churches aka humans being humans..

my grandparents are an odd bunch, maternal line, us gi, italian catholic, paternal line, french huguenot and anglican..

being born in england and roman catholic to the irish nuns at school i'd never be catholic enough so beaten for the sin of being born english, the French protestants side think the english far too catholic to consider as human while the evangelical American side can't even see the christian in the english.

its an incredibly complex lens as all have their extreme ways to see others.

its the road to the excuse that enables the killing of others, the west itself is readopting that kind of extreme views as normal, and at some point the killing will start even if people keep denying the real reasons for the old hatreds..

its why the question "what is a women" underlines the imminent danger of where we are, its a religious test, and answering it is an act of faith to both sides, with a few words does something bread/wine/human magically transform into something else or not,

Its a god question that is ripping our societies apart..

a reply to: nickyw

It's definitely an enigma that is beyond our mortal comprehension.

I suppose we can only follow our hearts, and I pray compassion protects those who are innocent.

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

and i that common sense prevails in those lost to this from acting on the hate and anger in their hearts..