US Ambassador Warns of Russian False Flag in Black Sea

originally posted by: LittleJake
a reply to: tamusan

You don't know what you're talking about. Russia could have taken Kyiv in a mater of weeks if they had wanted to. They didn't want to.

Their initial advance toward Kyiv was a faint, a bluff to draw the Ukrainian military away from their main objective of occupying the Donetsk and Luhansk regions.

But, they had already effectively occupied those regions for years before Russia started this War? Since 2014, I believe.

www.aljazeera.com...

"Kyiv, Ukraine – Moscow-backed separatists have controlled the southeastern Ukrainian regions of Donetsk and Luhansk, known collectively as Donbas, for almost eight years."


So, no. Russia tried, and failed, to seize that airport near Kyiv in the early days of the war.

Was that a "feint" too?

originally posted by: trollz

originally posted by: tamusan
Yeah, finding out that Russia's military isn't worth #.

It's funny how the anti-Russia propagandists keep parroting "Russia's military is worthless, Ukraine is totally kicking their asses and winning!"... And yet here we are. Russia continues to successfully hold the areas they've occupied. Ukraine's military is so useless that despite a flood of money, equipment and support from multiple countries, they still can't do a thing about it.
Go ahead and explain how that works in light of your belief that Russia's military is worthless.

Not so fast, matey:

www.thedrive.com...


"in Zaporizhzhia Oblast, Ukraine appears to have captured a key city in Donetsk Oblast, according to Ukraine’s military and Kremlin-connected Russian Telegram channels.".

a reply to: trollz

"Ukraine's military is so useless that despite a flood of money, equipment and support from multiple countries, they still can't do a thing about it."

They are having to try to get through well prepared and dug in defences protected by extensive minefields.

That's hard to do.

"Useless" - says an armchair General?

a reply to: LittleJake

It's probably the other way around. Ukraine, or some other unknown entity, like the US maybe, will plant the mines and blame Russia.

How sad is it that these countries are so messed up that we really would never know who is truly guilty!!

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

You want to walk back your claim?

Fox News

UKRAINE Published February 22, 2022 8:21am EST
Russian troops moved into eastern Ukraine's breakaway regions, European officials say
British Health Secretary Sajid Javid says 'invasion of Ukraine has begun'

NDTV

This Article is From Feb 25, 2022
First Russian Troops Enter Ukraine Capital Kyiv, Street Battle Erupts
Ukraine crisis: An advance party of Russia's invasion force left a trail of damage in its wake as clashes erupted inside Ukraine's capital Kyiv for the first time.
World NewsAgence France-PresseUpdated: February 25, 2022 5:20 pm IST

originally posted by: trollz

originally posted by: watchitburn
Is this like the nordstream pipeline
The rocket Ukraine launched into Poland
Or the bombs placed on the nuclear power plant?

Don't forget the bombing of the Crimea bridge that was blamed on Russia while Ukrainian officials simultaneously openly admitted to having planned and carried it out.

Who ever blamed either bombing of the Kerch bridge on Russia? There was suspicion that the first attack was done by saboteurs in Russia, but NO ONE as far as I know ever said the Russian military or other government agency had done it.

originally posted by: LittleJake
a reply to: MrInquisitive

So both of us just blabber BS at each other. Fine with me.

So you're then arguing that the Russian invasion of Ukraine then was in fact a US false flag , as per my point in my previous post? You certainly aren't providing any reason why the earlier claim by the US was spot on, yet any other statements by the US are "obviously" part of a false flag operation.

As to the case in point, to whose direct benefit would a mining attack on a ship loaded with Ukrainian grain be? Include in that analysis any fallout should the supposed false flag operation become known. It seems most likely that Russia would do so, and then claim that it was a false flag operation by the US, NATO or even Ukraine.

As for the Nord Stream pipeline explosion, no substantiated evidence has shown that the US/UK/Norway were responsible for it, only Hersch's article, which used one, uncorroborated anonymous source. Another possibility is that it was done by Ukraine, possibly with help from Poland; this seems the most likely case to me. I thought the early claims that it was likely Russia that did it never made sense, so it's not like I accept all western propaganda on the subject. I do, however, expect actual evidence before blithely stating that this or that country did it, unlike yourself.

Claims of false flag attacks and operations require more evidence that mere assertions. And obviously one reason to make such assertions is to muddy the water should such an operation occur, i.e. both sides are saying the other did it, so who are we to believe? And claiming a likely possible attack by one belligerent would actually be a false flag attack by the other is a prime example of a disinformation campaign tactic.

a reply to: MrInquisitive

Actually, I really don't give a rat's butt at this point. I'm to the point of not believing anything from virtually any source anymore, and argument here just for argument’s sake isn't worth the effort. It accomplishes absolutely nothing. Nothing at all.

a reply to: LittleJake

No, thanks

This is exactly why I have given up trying to convince someone here of just about anything. Even when presenting solid evidence that someone's position is blatantly false, they persist in believing they are right. What's the use even trying?
NONE!

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

The LAST thing the US wants to see is for this conflict to come to an end. Too much $$$ in it for the parties that control our government

a reply to: LittleJake

One could, for the sake of balance, say the same about your good self?

Again:-

" Moscow-backed separatists have controlled the southeastern Ukrainian regions of Donetsk and Luhansk, known collectively as Donbas, for almost eight years."

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

They controlled nothing. But yes, they have been confronting oppressive Ukrainian forces there that long.
But I thought this particular debate between you and me was about ACTUAL Russian forces invading Ukraine.

OLDCARPY, YOU ARE WRONG AND YOU KNOW IT. JUST ADMIT IT!

But then again, narci$$ist$ can't admit their mistakes, can they.




That's enough for me. No more!

Russia's lousy targeting has already struck a Romanian (I think it was) cargo ship in port (so a nato countries ship was hit), so if they wanted their excuse for nato to get involved (like some think they are raring to do) They already had a reason.

The most likely reason is russia is trying to make certain no grain ships make it out, the threat of mines will stop a lot of people from risking sailing.

a reply to: LittleJake

As is well documented, the controlling Russian forces did not wear any insignia at the time.

Shouting does not help a "debate", neither do insults.

Any comment on the failed attempt to seize that airport?

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Some people dont realize how important logistics are, doesnt matter how good your door kickers are if you cant move fuel, beans, and bullets to them on time you lose.

Russia just cant seem to figure it out, I wouldnt even waste time arguing the point with someone that cant see something that simple.

a reply to: LittleJake

"They controlled nothing. But yes, they have been confronting oppressive Ukrainian forces there that long."

They controlled the region. As is well documented. There were no Ukrainian forces present there.

Crimea was annexed by Russia.

Are you going to address the airport thing or provide some evidence that the advance on Kyiv was a "feint" or have you flounced off?

a reply to: MrInquisitive

I don't recall anyone blaming Russia either. Russian dissidents, yes. Not the same thing.

Then Ukraine claimed it.

More straw man stuff?

Yeah much in the same way Russia blew up theirnown pipeline.

Please. Just stop.

a reply to: ElGoobero

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2

originally posted by: trollz

originally posted by: tamusan
Yeah, finding out that Russia's military isn't worth #.

It's funny how the anti-Russia propagandists keep parroting "Russia's military is worthless, Ukraine is totally kicking their asses and winning!"... And yet here we are. Russia continues to successfully hold the areas they've occupied. Ukraine's military is so useless that despite a flood of money, equipment and support from multiple countries, they still can't do a thing about it.
Go ahead and explain how that works in light of your belief that Russia's military is worthless.

Not so fast, matey:

www.thedrive.com...


"in Zaporizhzhia Oblast, Ukraine appears to have captured a key city in Donetsk Oblast, according to Ukraine’s military and Kremlin-connected Russian Telegram channels.".

Get some lesson from good old Col Macgregor (video below), Russians don't care about some territory, they want the the Ukrainian army destroyed, they can retreat some bit, they don't care. 400.000 Ukrainian soldiers dead (sadly, I must say).

You know when Hitler invaded Holland, we surrendered pretty fast, if Holland had Zelensky as our chief (or whatever name you want to give) he would send us to the last man in the slaughter house. And Zelensky said he would be like a captain of a ship, waiting as the last person in line to be rescued! hah, he is really rich (corrupted by US money who brought him in power after the coup) and with many houses in Europe and America, he (this hero) would be the first to flee when his live comes in danger for sure!