What don't some of you realize? This is not a difficult concept.

Okay, I see threads here saying "The absolute answer" "Another source of fuel"..

You DO REALIZE that oil is not just used as a fuel right? Oil has been a part of every major invention for the last 200 years, weather it be transportation, production, maintenance, use, or raw materials, oil is used everywhere. Oil lubricates the machines that pump our water, oil lubricates and fuels that millions of trucks that ship our food and goods accross the country, oil does everything in our economy.

There is no "one single option" to get away from an oil crisis. Now I'm not 100% sure that peak oil will happen in our lifetime (it is going to happen eventually if we keep guzzling it down like we are, that is inevitable); but when it does, we can't say hydrogen engines are the answer, we can't say steam engines or those quirky one man jobs (rice powered car, etc.) are the answer.

I will say it again, we aren't just out to replace a fuel. While it is true that fuels are a major player in the oil game; they aren't the only players. Think back on what I said earlier in the post about being used in almost everything, and every aspect of our lives. How long do you think the internet would stay up without oil? Assuming we even have power; and don't say windmills will provide us with power, they are expensive, and they, too, require oil for maintenance.

Nuclear power? Yeah, try maintaining an entire nuclear powerplant without oil. Maintaining an entire worlwide network of computers should be cake without lubrication for whatever type of propulsion we find in the future.

Food? Water? Heat? Electricity? Communication?

It has been said that without oil we will revert to the way we were before oil, unless a viable alternative is found. Now you need to find a lubricant that is as good as oil, a fuel as good as oil (hydrogen is NOT that fuel), and thousands of other materials that can do the jobs that oil can.

What I'm trying to say is, there are scientists, engineers, etc etc working on this problem, do you think if it was as simple as hydrogen, or electric cars, that we would have a problem? We really need to look deeper into this situation, we have a lot of intelligent folks on this board, and possibly some who are involved in solving this problem! This is an exciting, yet scary time; and there is much more work to be done than finding a new fuel for our SUVs and sports cars.

What about synthetic oil? Is that made from oil too? I wonder how many products it could successfully be made for besides car engines.

I'm not sure if you are talking about the oil plants that produce oil from garbage? If you are, I'm only aware of a very few of these plants, perhaps only one, and I believe it is a test plant. They also cost quite a sum of money, and a lot of energy.

If you are talking about synthetic oils like "Mobil Synthetic" or "Castrol Synthetic" that is a different story. I'm not very educated on the topic of synthetic oils, but turned this up in a google search:

"Oils produced by synthesis (chemical reaction) rather than by extraction or refinement. Many (but not all) synthetic oils offer immense advantages in terms of high temperature stability and low temperature fluidity, but are more costly than mineral oils. Major advantage of all synthetic oils is their chemical uniformity."

and this page which further defines synthetic oil: en.wikipedia.org...

Is synthetic oil at all an alternative? I have no idea. Im not educated enough on the subject, but from what i've read so far, probably not.

you are apsolutely right. as i have stated previously not only do we need a new fuel (sythetic or otherwise), we also need synthetic oils. what you see on the shelf in the automotive oil section called synthetic oil is NOT synthetic. it is a manipulation of petrolium oil, not a "synthetic" ie: man made substance. all they do in a simple sense is to remove the bigger particals from it. synthetic oil as we know it is still a petrolium product. i am in the automotive industry and got my info from the pennzoil representitive and training for my job.

oil is used not only in most lubercants, but in plastics, as well as most rubber as we know it. just think of what all around you is made of plastic. we use plastic now in almost everything. it forms a major part of the very computer you are now useing. from the keyboard to the protective insolateive material on the wireing, and most of the wireing conectors. a good portion of food pacageing is also plastic. just try to imagine the world without any more plastic.

some other plastic uses: caset and video tapes, tapes (like duct tape and scotch tape), tool handler soft berrings, laminates, creadit cards, cd's, dvd's, buttons, bags, apliances,ect. in fact most things we use every day uses at least some plastic in some manor.

now think of all the rubber we use like tires, soft controll pad buttons, seals and o-rings, hoses ect. think of what all around you is made of rubber as well.

we use oil for most everyday things we use. the only substances we use almost as much are wood, metals and glass. it is not easy to think of what we would do without oil. vinal (sorry on spelling) is also made from oil. basicaly most of our entertainment would not be in existance. plastics, rubbers, vinals, plexiglass, and in fact many more things we take forgranted would not be available.

intrige is absolutely correct to remind us of this. it is not only gasoline we would loose, and yes even most batteries use plastic. so say goodbye to any thought of electric cars being the answer, as bateries without oil being available would weigh quite a lot more. basicaly without oil we are rather limited in the technology we would be able to use.

lets see back to wooden or metal wheels useing animal fat for grease. no more electronics, we would be back to vacume tubes and bulky glass or ceramic insulators. i do not know what we could cover our electrical wires with. no more disposible lighters heck even butain and lighter fluid are petrolium products so it looks like back to matches ( i hope that they do not need petrolium). we would have to grow hemp for ropes, as most modern ropes are petrolium based. no more propane, or natural gas barbeques, only charcoal. most modern industry is screwed without oil lubricants to keep machines running. how many other things can you think of that rely on oil?

in order to even consider haveing anything close to the world as we know it would be to find another way to manufacture something as usefull as the oil we currantly use. as we use oil in almost every single thing that we have.

[edit on 10-4-2005 by drogo]

Well most lubricants are petroleum distilates. WD-40 slick 50 etc. I am not sure what we can do, we are way too dependant on a limited resource. Synthetic oils, purely synthetic is possible but it will be very expensive. If we can ween are selves of gasoline all together it will make our oil last for maybe another hundred years or so. the main problem with Hydrogen is that it is an expensive to make a vehicle run on it, and the vehicles breakdown quickly as compared to gasoline engines.

as posted by intrigue
Okay, I see threads here saying "The absolute answer" "Another source of fuel"..

You DO REALIZE that oil is not just used as a fuel right? Oil has been a part of every major invention for the last 200 years, weather it be transportation, production, maintenance, use, or raw materials, oil is used everywhere. Oil lubricates the machines that pump our water, oil lubricates and fuels that millions of trucks that ship our food and goods accross the country, oil does everything in our economy.

Most of the world's major nations are considered oil-based or oil-driven. Another interesting tidbit, is that:

Oil provides over 90% of our transportation fuel.

Life After The Oil Crash

Though I do not endorse everything that is mentioned in the link above, it does make for informative reading.






seekerof

There may not be a solution to the energy crisis, and like it or not no one is going to survive any type of global conflict. But as history shows as we tend to use up one energy source another usually comes along. If this were not the case we would have hunted whales to extinction by now for oil. Things are likely to get bad for a while but i have a feeling we will rebound. I just hope we dont annilate ourselves trying to control a resource that isn't going to last. I have a feeling there are viable alternatives, they have just been surpressed by the oil monopoly.

Creating a completely synthetic lubricant should be easier than creating a completely synthetic fuels. The unavoidable first law of thermodynamics always reels its ugly head into the picture, making completely synthetic fuels somewhat pointless. The only way they'd be useful is if we somehow obtained the stuff from an "unlimited" resource (e.g. solar, or nuclear).

Originally posted by Seekerof

Life After The Oil Crash

Though I do not endorse everything that is mentioned in the link above, it does make for informative reading.

Great link. Informative, interesting perspectives.

Thanks.

There is always another, better way:

Industrial uses

If that was all that the oil from the hemp seed could be used for, it would be valuable in itself for these properties alone. However, HSO has many industrial uses. It has been used for centuries in inks and dyes. It makes quality lubricants and extremely tough polymers, sealants, and plastics, (As the Cannabis plant offers up approx. 67% cellulose from which plastic can be made), all from a rapidly grown renewable resource. The Linolenic acid based oil that Hemp contains is a perfect base for paints that would otherwise use Linseed oil as their base. Combine this with the strong fibres of the stalk, the Hemp plant is one of the most versatile, useful plants known to man.

In the mid 1930's, Henry Ford set about and created a car entirely out of hemp and other renewable carbohydrate-based resources. Its body was so tough you could hit it with a sledge hammer with little damage; It was lubricated with Hemp oil and fuelled by Hemp biomass.

Source

Nature's ability to provide is limitless. Living with the earth is far better than living on it, if you get my drift.




[edit on 11/4/2005 by Thousand]

i guess if you look at the big picture- you see the exodus from the cities and hopefully more crafts and guilds set up for LOCAL sales. TRANSPORTATION is the big oil usage. LOCAL economy and LOCAL energy souces from renewables may fare better than global solutions of so-called better technologies. There are two reactions to oil running out. One is that better technology will save us all, and two is adjusting to more primitive forms of energy and changing from world trade to local trade. True, oil got us to 6 billion people. And lack of it will put us into famine, since agriculture relies on it so heavily. It takes at least 1000 sq feet intensive gardening to feed 1 person. It takes 2 lbs grain for every 1 lb meat (chicken)
I don't thin I'll hold my breath for technology to save us, this time.

an indian company is has developed a synthetic nano libricant that will lubricate in a sealed environment without being changed for 10 years(if i remember correctly) if cars/equipment were lubricated using this material it would be similar to owning a porsche. sealed engine compartments, you break the seal you void the warranty on the motor and whatever happens is your fault.

please, i beg everyone to frequent evworld.com the answers to many problems have been mentioned on this website and it tends to avoid the quackery that some sites can add to this issue. always seems to be a fairly educated read.

There are two PURELY SYNTHETIC oils on the market today that are readily available in the US. They are Mobil 1 and Amsoil.

I use Mobil 1 in all my cars. I change it every 15,000 miles, but I'm sure it could go a lot further. It's still fairly clear at 15,000 miles.

Amsoil will last 25,000 miles between changes. If you install a second 'bypass filter' on your vehicle, you can change the filters and the small amount of oil that you lose in the filter, and that's it. You never have to drain your oil and change it.

Synthetic oils will reduce friction in your engine. This means the parts are better lubricated and require less power to move, which translates into better power and fuel economy. Reducing friction also reduces wear and heat. I know people who have put over 300,000 miles on multiple vehicles thanks to synthetic lubricants.

In fact, I have a friend who has a '93 Ford Aerostar with over 380,000 miles on it. The drivetrain is still 100% original. No rebuilds. With that mileage, he still gets 15% better gas mileage than what the EPA tested for that van. He recently bought new tires and got 80,000 mile Michelins put on. The saleman looked at him and said "Sir, you want 80,000 mile tires for a van with 380,000 miles on it? Why don't you get some cheap tires since your van won't last for the life of these tires?" My friend replied "I''m going to wear these tires out, and I'll be back to see you for the next set.".

Synthetic oil has no petroleum in it (true synthetics anyway. A lot of the 'synthetic' oil sold today is either blended with petroleum or is simply 'cleaner' petroleum. Stick with Mobil 1 or amsoil and you won't go wrong).

Synthetic oil costs more, but saves you more. I pay a little over $4 a quart for Mobil 1. I get 15,000 miles out of it. If I bought the $1.20 a quart no-name brand oil, I would change it every 3,000 miles. That's 5 oil changes at $1.20 a quart ($6) to equal the mileage I get with one quart of Mobil 1 ($4). Besides the savings over time, I'm getting better gas mileage, reduced heat, and less wear on my engine. I don't understand why everyone doesn't switch to pure synthetics!?!?!?!

Synthetics aren't just for engine lubrication. Wheel bearings and the differential gears are another place where synthetics make sense. You not only get better protection and less heat with these synthetic lubricants, you get less rolling friction, which means beter gas mileage. Would you pay an extra $2 for a grease that will give you an average of 3-5% better fuel economy? I would!

Synthetic transmission fluid will also reduce friction, heat, and wear and make your tranny last longer.


Don't just use synthetics in your car, either! I use Mobile 1 in my lawn mower as well. Put it in your tractor, boat, go-kart, chain saw, whatever! It helps your equipment last longer and reduces America's dependence on foreign oil!

The simple fact is that the entire world is too oil based. A change to a totally new basis for global sustanence will not happen quickly, and IMO is unlikely to come about until we are completely out of oil, as then we will have no choice. The obvious problem there is that you are basically dealing with a total system meltdown and then have to rebuild everything, as opposed to doing, to use computer lingo, a "hot swap" of systems.

To answer the car problem, hovercrafts have many of the same capablilities as cars, can travel over any sufficiently flat surface, including water, and can be built by anyone who has access to basic power tools, a garage, foam, and fiberglass. Their advantage in the oil area comes in as they have very few moving parts. Only the engines, on a homebuilt hovercraft, need oil. The rest can survive without it. As we speak I am building one in my garage. I expect it to reach slightly over 30 mph. on just 8 hp.

NMS

[edit on 4/11/05 by NothingMakesSense]

Hybrid electric cars offer a good short-term solution until a new energy source is found.

This article is about some people who 'hacked' a Toyota Prius by adding higher-capacity batteries and a plug to it. They have to plug it in to charge the batteries, but the result is that they can drive 60 miles on pure electric power and can get 180 mpg on the highway.

Heres a concept for you. We have 200 million dollars to play with. Then we invent a new source of power and enforce it upon the U.S. industry which currently runs our economy and their rich lifestyles. Wait a second, we don't have 200 million dollars! Were screwed. Lets write the president and ask for the 200 mill. Oh damn his dads an oil tycoon! I forgot anyway they already came up with an abundant source of power hydrogen - the most abundant element in the universe. Once we run out of oil, according to my watch, over a hundred years from now, hydrogen will be $5.00 a puff.

Personally i think they should really hype up oil seed agriculture. One of the byproducts of hemp production is a very viable oil product.....and no, you won't get stoned by a vehicle driving by burning it. Oh, forgot to mention, the fibers produced are good for clothing and the paper produced using hemp doesn't fall to pieces after a hundred years....the Declaration of Idependance was written on hemp btw and its still here. Save the forests AND biodiesel all in one. Remember that the whole hemp fiasco of the 30's or so was based on Dow chemical, big industry getting the government to ban the product under the shallow concept that hemp is the demon weed that will doom US civilization because of its cousin plant cannabis sativa. Truth is people are going to buy drugs whether you want them or not the only question is do you want them to buy a product that funds terrorists in Asia and the Middle East, armies which attempt to destabilize governments in South America or can you tax them for every joint grown here.

[edit on 12-4-2005 by MPJay]

Yeah, I have always thought hemp would be a valuable resource. Dow and DuPont demonized it as did the Southern Cotton growers association because it was unbeatable competition for them. Now, when someone mentions industrial hemp, those same entities try their hardest to remove the word "industrial" from it and conjer pictures of junky farmers smoking joints in the fields. Industrial hemp is grown and harvested just like tobacco, wheat, and hay. Actually, if there was one evil in that bunch, I'd have to say tobacco was it, not hemp.

For the love of God, George Washington grew hemp and so did many other founding fathers.

If peak oil does happen and we continue to allow ourselves to be starved simply for this inocrrect demonization, its our own fault.

BTW, petroleum affects transportation at its very core; asphalt.

biodeisel (or any other method of powering cars by plant matter) is not the solution. In order to power our current needs, we would have to convert every square inch of the US and then some to solely producing whatever plant was chosen. Know what happens after intensive farming of the same land with the same crop year after year? It doesn't work so well.

NMS

is the idea that the ATS commty can solve the problem ?

a company I do business with creates bearings that require no lubrication at all......

These self-lubricating bearings will operate at temperatures up to 1,100ºF in corrosive or abrasive environments



humans are very adaptable, we'll find a way