So Freaking Tired

According to Paul, you preach a different gospel.
And that makes you accursed.
What do these dates mean to you as a jw?
1878
1881
1914
1918
1925
1975

a reply to: randomuser

I have to agree with an earlier reply look for answers in the Ancient belief systems. The followers of the 3 three major Abrahamic religions are blinkered and brainwashed. That's why religious leaders and to a certain extent religious followers hate archaeologists and historians so much. The religious narrative is slowly unwinding, how often have you seen religious followers unable to explain their religions inaccuracies refer to their book of choice as an unquestionable source that can't be challenged. When in reality the book has no provenance infact if the stories that the ancient Hebrew scribes wrote had not been published no one would know of their God. I'd even go as far to say most religious people don't even know the real name of the diety they call God. The ancient belief systems were just that belief systems compared to the modern era these beliefs have been weaponised and are more political.

a reply to: Lucius Driftwood

I predict you won’t get a reply.

That was rather prescient of you. Here, have a beer


a reply to: Topcraft

a reply to: Stonewaller

Searching for peace in a never ending argument? How peculiar...

Some people achieve peace by knowing that the argument, is never going to end and bank on it; Both physically and spiritually, hence? What you already know about it.

Maybe you want to try politics next?

originally posted by: Lucius Driftwood
According to Paul, you preach a different gospel.
And that makes you accursed.
What do these dates mean to you as a jw?
1878
1881
1914
1918
1925
1975

a reply to: randomuser

Yeah, it looks like you're just quoting something from somewhere. I could be wrong. It is true that the early Bible Students as they were then known knew that 1914 was a pivotal date in human history. In fact I have a thread about it here, and it even goes into detail about their disappointment that the end did not come in that year:

Pieces of a Divine Puzzle Come Together - A Timeline Decoded

Instead of the the end happening that year they soon began to realize that it was the start of the last days and the prophecy of Matthew 24:14 still had to be completed, that the good news of the kingdom had to be preached in all the inhabited earth as a witness to all the nations, and then the end would come.

Even decades before that pivotal year Christian men eagerly peering into Bible prophecy perceived that their would be a great witness work heralded to all the corners of the earth before the end came. Even though perceiving that to be an impossibility at that time, those stalwarts, such as George Storrs, said that even if a human mind cannot perceive quite how a thing is to be done does not mean it is beyond the power of God. And indeed his holy spirit has imbued a people called upon by his name to fulfill that prophecy of Jesus concerning the last days.

When he was on earth his closest apostles imagined that Jesus was going to establish God's kingdom on earth at that time, and no doubt were hoping he was going to end Roman subjection over the Jews. But that did not happen. But just because they did not understand the full outworking of God's purpose did not mean they did not have the truth.

Back then Jehovah's Witnesses also used the cross in worship, a blatantly pagan object of veneration, and Jesus did not even die on a cross it was an upright pole or stake. They also celebrated holidays such as Christmas. It was until years later that by means of Jehovah's holy spirit, according to the restoration prophecies concerning God's people, did they become refined and cleansed and do away with such God-dishonoring displays, set apart, a people holy for the honor of Jehovah's great and illustrious name.

You do have to realize they were coming out of bondage to Babylon the Great. The cleansing work was gradual, it was not overnight. And that cleansing work has continued all throughout the last days.

I really did address this in an early post in this thread when discussing points that the Bible points to that can lead a person to discern who has the truth. And that was the first one, being that the truth does not have dogma or doctrine. Unlike the religious leaders and religions of Christendom who are stuck in their old false pagan teachings for almost two thousand years now, both Catholic and Protestant, Jehovah's Witnesses made quick reforms. And whenever the holy spirit guides them to see they are wrong about a certain understanding they are quick to make adjustments and change. Unlike the unchangeable Churches of Christendom, even though they know they are wrong about many many teachings in the Bible.

The light of Bible truth gradually gets brighter. And it isn't only until certain prophecies are about to be fulfilled or are in the process of fulfillment that God's holy spirit leads his people to discern these things. There are still things we are not sure about how they will play out. Such as the "cry of peace and security." But when that time arrives, and in God's time, his holy spirit will no doubt move his people to understand what is taking place.

Jehovah God has placed all things in their own time and season. But it does not belong to man to always know all these things. And the light of Bible truth will only increase. Back then, when Russell and his fellow anointed Christians were being lead out of spiritual bondage to Babylon the Great, that great prostitute, they were at the dawn of a new day. And the light has continued to increase, until finally the full day is firmly established.

"So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction."-Acts 1:6-7.

"But the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light
That grows brighter and brighter until full daylight."
-Proverbs 4:18.

"Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father."-Matthew 24:36.

a reply to: randomuser

Just quoting something? Those dates represent false prophecies of the JW. Surely they teach you this? Or do they hide the facts of the organizations history from you?

originally posted by: Topcraft
a reply to: randomuser

Just quoting something? Those dates represent false prophecies of the JW. Surely they teach you this? Or do they hide the facts of the organizations history from you?

This is patently false. No Jehovah's Witness has ever claimed to be inspired by God.

As for the history check out this voluminous work. You will find everything in it:

Proclaimers of God's Kingdom

There are many other works you can investigate the dates in on the JW.ORG website at your leisure:

Publications Index

I encourage you to do your own investigation into these matters, beyond the enlightening words I have provided in this thread. I know prejudice and hate and even outright lies can lead to misunderstandings. But an informed mind can break through even the hardest set of minds. Look at the apostle Paul. He believed many of the lies told about Jesus Christ and was extremely violent in his hatred toward the first century Christians. But Jehovah extended him mercy because, as he himself acknowledged, he acted in ignorance. I hope all is well with you and yours.

"Although formerly I was a blasphemer and a persecutor and an insolent man. Nevertheless, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and with a lack of faith."-1 Timothy 1:13.

a reply to: randomuser

Let me start by asking, how many times must a prophet be wrong before he is declared a false prophet?
According to the bible, ONCE is enough.

Anyway....
1878: Charles Taze Russell, one of the early leaders of what later became known as Jehovah's Witnesses, believed that Christ's invisible presence began in 1874 and that the "time of the end" would culminate in 1914. 1878 marked the end of a period known as the "Gentile Times," and some expectations were associated with this year.
EPIC FAIL 1

1881: Charles Taze Russell and his associates initially believed that Christ's invisible presence began in 1874 and that the millennial reign would begin in 1878. When this did not happen as anticipated, they recalculated and revised their understanding.
EPIC FAIL 2

1914: This year was highly significant for Jehovah's Witnesses because they believed it marked the end of the "Gentile Times" and the beginning of Christ's invisible presence. They expected major changes on earth, leading to the establishment of God's Kingdom in heaven.
EPIC FAIL3

1918: Some Jehovah's Witnesses believed that Christ's presence became more pronounced in 1918, leading to further expectations for the establishment of God's Kingdom on earth. They looked forward to significant changes in world events.
EPIC FAIL 4

1925: There was considerable excitement and anticipation among Jehovah's Witnesses that the year 1925 would bring about the resurrection of ancient biblical figures and the establishment of paradise on earth. However, these events did not occur as expected, leading to disappointment among some followers.
EPIC FAIL 5

1975: The year 1975 was anticipated by some Jehovah's Witnesses as potentially marking the end of 6,000 years of human history since Adam's creation. Some expectations were associated with this year, including the possibility of Christ's millennial reign beginning. However, these predictions did not come to pass as anticipated, leading to some disillusionment within the community.
EPIC FAIL 6

Your organization has a history of falsehood and false prophets.

This is patently false. No Jehovah's Witness has ever claimed to be inspired by God.

1A. How does the Society define "true prophet?"
The three essentials given through Moses were:
1)...Speak in Jehovah's name...

2) The things foretold would come to pass...

3) His prophesying must promote true worship being in harmony with God's Word and the prophets."

Aid to Bible Understanding, p. 1,348

1B. How does the Society test the true prophet's message?
"The best method of proof is to put a prophecy to the test of time and circumstance. The Bible invites such a test...the Bible... establishes the rules for testing a prophecy at Deuteronomy 18:20-22."

Watchtower, March 1, 1965

1C. Does the Society believe that a true prophet exists today?
Yes. In fact, the Society says, "It is of importance to every individual on earth to identify the group that Jehovah has commissioned as His servant' or messenger."

Watchtower, March 15, 1972

1D. Does the Society believe that a true modern prophet would have the same authority as the Old Testament prophets?
Yes. Society members are told that there existed such a group and then they were asked to look for it-"...any group on whom Jehovah would be willing to bestow the commission to speak as a 'prophet' in His name, as was done toward Ezekiel..."

Watchtower, March 15, 1972

1E. Does the Society claim to be the present day true prophet?
Yes. "Who is this prophet?...not one man, but a body of men and women...known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian Witnesses."

Watchtower, April 1, 1972

1F. Where does the Society/Prophet claim to get its direction?
"Jehovah's Witnesses today make their declaration of the good news of the kingdom under angelic direction and support." In other words, angels tell the Society what to say and do.

Watchtower, April 1, 1972

1G. Does the Society desire and expect Christendom to treat the Society as a prophet of God?
Yes. The Society fully anticipates this: "...regardless of how Christendom views or regards this group of anointed witnesses of Jehovah, the time must come, and that shortly, when those making up Christendom will know that really a 'prophet' of Jehovah was among them."

The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah, p. 70

1H. What role does the Society claim for a prophet in these days? What should a prophet be doing?
The Society spells this out in three ways:

1. "The modern-day counterpart of Ezekiel"

2. "Do the will of Jehovah"

3. "Serve as the mouthpiece and active agent of Jehovah"

The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah, p. 58

1I. Does the Society claim that it has been prophesying for God today?
Yes. "The facts substantiate that the remnant of Christ's anointed disciples (the Society [see context]) have been doing that prophesying to all nations." They claim God's Spiritis "poured out" on them. They ask: "Why argue about it?"

Holy Spirit-The Force Behind the Coming New Order!, p.148

originally posted by: Lucius Driftwood

originally posted by: randomuser
a reply to: Lucius Driftwood

Again, no Jehovah's Witness has ever claimed to be infallible or inspired of God. The claim that they have made any prophesies is just not true.

As for Charles Taze Russell please see this post about my thoughts:

Charles Taze Russell

EPIC FAIL.

Since you seem to be quite enthralled with Charles Taze Russell you may be interested in this documentary about the early years of Jehovah's Witnesses. And if you are sincere please take the time to actually read the links posted above. If you aren't perhaps someone else passing through may be.


Jehovah's Witnesses—Faith in Action, Part 1: Out of Darkness

I am sincere in calling your cult out for what it is.
You may be genuinely sincere in your ideology. But you are sincerely wrong. And your organisation is a house of apostates, charlatans and protectors of paedophiles.
However, I will grant that protection of paedophiles is not specific to your organisation. Sickos hide in plain sight, and they tend to use groups that are associated with truth, hence religion, social work, politicians, charity groups, etc.
a reply to: randomuser

a reply to: randomuser

Care to respond to those watchtower excerpts? They come directly from your organization. Or do you refute what they say? You can’t have it both ways my friend.

I also believe JW to be a cult. Just like Jonestown, heavensgate, and multiple others. I’ve seen firsthand how they control their members. Total control in the name of God. If you step out of line you will be shunned by your family, lifelong friends and your organization. These pariahs are emotionally destroyed by the JW.

How much of the Bible has been “ re-translated “ because it did not follow your beliefs? Who or what inspired that, possibly one of your “angels”? What authority gave you permission to change the word of God? There are extreme penalties for that. Change one word, and it changes the meaning of what was intended.

JW was born of hate for the Roman Catholic Church. It’s as simple as that. Same as the other offshoots.

You say that, “ no JW claims to be inspired by God “ this is one thing I can believe. You are inspired by an Angel. Some of them don’t have your salvation in mind, rather your destruction. I can think of one in particular that is noted for his hatred and deceit of mankind.

I have no issue with you believing whatever you want, I do however take issue with JW trying to influence others that may be vulnerable and still searching for their faith.

a reply to: Topcraft

I have kindly and patiently replied to you and Lucis on everything. Although you yourselves have not even discussed one thing I've mentioned. You both have name called, ignored everything I have written, ignored the evidence to the contrary.

At this point I realize you and Lucius are not interested in the truth. When you ignore everything I've shared with you, and just copy/paste lies and stoop to name-calling and some very derogatory lies at that what is the point to continue the conversation? It is obvious you guys are not here in good faith or interested in a reasonable discussion or the truth. For now I'm just going to ignore you guys. And it is exactly for the reasons stated. You will not discuss anything with me in a reasonable manner. Not one word of anything I've posted you guys have even mentioned.

I gave you all the information you need above if you are really interested in the truth. Which at this point you both have clearly shown you are not.

a reply to: randomuser

You misunderstand my intentions. My intention is to warn others, not to convince you of anything. All your “ truth “ as you call it, is referenced by the Watchtower society. Nothing outside that. Your Bible was changed from the original texts to suit your beliefs, by people that were unqualified, and then you refer to that as the truth. You call yourself Christians, but the truth is that you are not really Christians.

Feel free to disengage, I for one expected you to. But understand that you have not addressed the questions I have asked you. That tells me that you never wanted to discuss your religion, all you want to do is preach the “ truth “ of the watchtower society as they decided to make it. Unless of course you are presented with contradictory evidence from your own sources, then you disengage instead of answer.

So you are free to dwell in the self righteous world of the JW. It’s your right. It’s my right to confront you when I feel it’s necessary. But one thing is for certain. The Bible as it stood for over 2000 years before JW re-translated it calls you out, not me.

originally posted by: Lucius Driftwood
According to Paul, you preach a different gospel.
And that makes you accursed.
What do these dates mean to you as a jw?
1878
1881
1914
1918
1925
1975

a reply to: randomuser

In case someone else is interested:

Regarding the remark about Paul and the gospel:

In light of what Paul Washer says at 3:43, here's a summary of the major events and teachings in the Bible (which may be of some use to Stonewaller):

By the way, your comment broke the thread with the cursive text, I tried to fix it, but just adding "[/i.]" without the dot didn't work. How did you manage that one?

edit: I noticed that you missed two slashes(/), didn't know you could break a thread with that, I just tried adding "[/i.]" 2, 4 and 6 times but that didn't fix it either.

a reply to: Stonewaller

Hi!

I noticed that you simply state the fact that you are tired, without any request for advice.

People are naturally inclined to offer unsolicited advice anyway.

Here's a youtube video that I accidently listened to today:

Evidently, your situation is not unique to you alone.

When I am tired, I take a nap, usually around 3 or 4 pm. Unfortunately, that is also the time when my Granddaughter wants me to watch our usual youtube episodes. She pauses these frequently in order to offer comments and theories about what may come next. So a 20 minute episode may take as long as an hour and a half to view.

Consequently, the other day, my nap was delayed to around 7pm.

I awoke quite disoriented, like, "what the ___! Why am I waking up in bed? I don't remember going to bed. What time is it? 2:30 am? What the ___?" I eventually came to the conclusion that I had not in fact gone to bed for the night, but had accidently had a very long afternoon nap.

I rest in knowing that I am not required by some immortal being to be immortal myself. I can in fact die just like many of my relatives. Immortality isn't really a thing.