When did we start hating children?

I’m speaking mainly for the US.

I recently was on a lovely getaway.
Two elements of this getaway was a restaurant that really only caters to adults, and then a resort that is strictly adults only.

Both were amazing, relaxing and completely child free. Did I mention relaxing. No screaming tantrums, no kids having sensory issues, no crying, no kids wandering where they shouldn’t be.

It really got me thinking. I love kids and babies but I really enjoyed kid free zones, why is that, and what changed over the years?
There was a time where we enjoyed having kids involved in everything. My husband and I fondly remember going to the horse track
With our parents. We remember going to play bingo, and so many more things that would just be unheard of these days.

KIDS have not changed, it’s the parents!!!!
Parents are so inept these days and have zero control over their kids. (I’m generalizing) Maybe some of it is because the government and doo-gooders reporting every discipline as child abuse (while actual child abuse never gets reported). There have been many times I’ve been in a store and have wanted to give a kid a good pop on the rear! I’ve heard an elementary school kid call his mom a “stupid b*tch” for not buying him a candy bar, and was met with zero reaction. OK, Maybe kids are different, how many kids have ADD, ADHD, emotional, personal, problems. Maybe parents haven’t had the tools to be good parents. Maybe the parents have some of the same issues as their kids (ADD ADHD, etc)

Back in the day, when a child was at a restaurant and they starting screaming, one of the parents would get up and take them out of the restaurant. How often does that happen now? The parents simply ignore while all others have to suffer. I was at a kid centric resort not so long ago. The things being allowed to happen in a hotel was ridiculous. Screaming at the top of lungs, full sprinting down the hall, stomping, crying, temper tantrums, leaving litter. I could go on all day. Yes kids will be kids, but I’m saying their parents never reeled them in. They would just let this nonsense happen in a setting that really isn’t appropriate. My kids are all older/adults but I do have family members with young kids and all the above applies to them too.

Back to my OP, all this bad behavior from kids and their parents too have made a lot of us dislike kids in a lot of setting (airplanes/hotels/restaurants/stores) because it ruins the NORMAL enjoyment for us. What a shame that is!

a reply to: JAGStorm

www.cnn.com...

In country with world’s lowest fertility rate, doubts creep in about wisdom of ‘no-kids zones’

Interesting article that touches on what I said about adults loving child free zones.

a reply to: JAGStorm

i hadn't noticed this until i read this thread.
interesting topic

a reply to: JAGStorm

It’s almost expected (and needed) that both parents be in the work force. There was a time someone could have a blue collar job, still afford a modest house, have a parent at home, and even see their kids through school. There’s something to be said for children being raised by their parents. Now they spend a few hours a day with them for a majority of the time.

Then those same parents, who get off work and try their best to make sure the house is kept up, homework is done, and lessons imparted need a break. If they’re lucky they get a week a year without the kids in an attempt to decompress.

I think we’re trying to reconcile how much society has changed while we’re still the same humans we were a few decades ago. Needless to say, not everything is going swimmingly IMO.

The problem children used to be the ones who were raised by one parent who had to work. There just wasn’t as much time to properly raise them. Now we have households with two parents, but they’re still both working most of the time. And when they do go out to eat they hand the toddler a tablet and hope it counts as a baby sitter.

a reply to: JAGStorm

As to what's wrong with the kids or the parents, I'd say it's a mix of both. The "kids" know they have the upper hand. A neighbor lamented to me just the other day that she can't get little Johnny to take the garbage out. When she tried he told me, "you can't make me and if you try, I'll call Child Services on you being abusive". In Texas, that's become a big racket. If they can find ANY excuse to remove the kids they will because they then get a court order to force the parents to pay child support to the State. I think the parents have become afraid of these kids.

As to the kids, from reports I get from friends who teach, the kids learn from other kids they can get away with any abusive behavior at school without any reprucussions whatsoever and it becomes sort of a one upsmanship game with them to see who can be the most foul mouthed/abusive kid in class.

As I was reading the South Korea story, the thought occurred to me that the "Kid Free", "No Kids" zones are really just kinda sad. It's like a whole society rejecting it's future and yea, it would put anyone off from having kids. The kid free zones sorta put a scarlet letter on their foreheads. Think of what it must say to the kids?

a reply to: CriticalStinker

You brought up so many good points and issues in which society hasn’t solved.

I’ve seen many, many, people get divorced with young children.
I hate to say that the children caused the divorced, but will say they were a symptom of the issues.

Case in point. Two working parents as you mentioned, never any time off. Kids will be kids and often the wife/mom will feel overwhelmed with the work. Work at work, and then household chores. Unfortunately this was the lie told to women, you can have it all. Well you can, but you are going to be tired and angry. Husbands feel like they work all day, and can’t do anything right and get no attention from the wife.

So these women figure if they are already doing it all might as well be single and not deal with another child (husband).
Often what these families need is something nobody wants to do or admit. A downgrade in living. Go back to one income, smaller house, cheaper car etc….

Handcuffing the parents in the matter of how they discipline their offspring is the reason children are animals now.

a reply to: JAGStorm

We also see two kinds of parents (IMO as someone in their 30’s looking at their peers).

Parents who feel like they were expected to have kids.

Parents who genuinely wanted kids.

a reply to: JAGStorm

I started hating the little crap machines as I call them as soon as I turned a adult , I treat them like barking dogs where I open the door and shout very loudly Shut the heck up and if confronted with a screaming brat I play it at its own game , I lye on the floor screaming I want a happy meal , that has a nearly 100 % success in getting a screaming brat to stop and laugh at the crazy adult out kidding a kid
.


What I worry about JAGStorm is those school shooters you have in America if they ever figure out not to go bursting in to the schools to go on a deadly rampage but wait to break times when they are all coralled into a cage on the play yard they could get the lot with a lot less effort

"When did we start hating children?"

From a german point of view, must have started before i was born in the early 1970´s. Because we always had prohibition signs telling the people what is not allowed for kids. You saw/see these signs everywhere, at every peace of lawn, no matter if public or not. No football allowed, no frisbee allowed, even stepping on the lawn at all signs and all that stuff. You always had older people hanging in their windows, in public or hidden behind curtains, spying on the kids outsides, only waiting to start a drama for nothing, including calling parents and threaten to call the police for really no reason at all. No joke, dogs are allowed more than kids here, they are free to pee and sh!t on and in places and spots kids aren´t even allowed to step on.

That´s one thing. The other thing is that kids changed since the generation of helicopter parents entered the stage. My whole neighborhood is full of these people. kneeling down in front of four year old children to be on equal footing, only to start a discussion sane people would start with mature people but not with little kids. These kids are absolutely not free, they are caged in the gardens behind the houses, always a few heli-moms and dads, around them, those hipster type current wave surfing people. These kids learned that they only have to cry loud and long enough so a bunch of heli-parents comes to the rescue and does everything these kids want them to do. These kids don´t know any limits because their parents don´t even raise their voice or whatever, the kid is always right and the heli-parent has to buckle.These kids know no respect and are raised to egomaniacs from the first day of their birth. It´s of course not their fault but the fault of these so called parents.

The problem with these hip, green voting, the climate and every refugge on earth saving, cargo-bike and e-vehicle driving
and always fighting racism and fascism and for the freedom of the women in Iran window sticker warrior-parents and their kids is that the kids raise their parents and not the parents their kids. I observe this since years in my neighborhood. And can´t stop laughing about that idiocracy of these so-called parents.

The problem is, it´s not the kids fault but these kids later in their life will have problems to stand on their own feet and to get along in real life. They wouldn´t later have these problems if they were raised and didn´t raise their so called parents, if they were taught respect and team work.

a reply to: JAGStorm

I don't think hating children is the problem. I would ask when did we stop respecting and valuing parents and parenting?

When did we stop holding up parenthood as the most important job in the world?

When did we decide parents weren't necessary and sent both parents off to work leaving the kids to fend for themselves?

When did we start living to work rather than working to live?

When did we decide material things were more important than love?

Raising children is a family affair, and it won't get done properly if family ain't there to do it.

I believe it is a combination of most if not Llnof what was said above. I think parents work full time jobs both of them. It is sad that little Johnny's parents are waiting to drip him off at preschool twenty min. before we open the preschool door at 8:30. They are also the last ones to leave at 5:30. The parents then hang around after for about an hour after pickup socializing with other parents and ignoring their child running down out of sight at two -four years old. The parents even have snacks but do not engage with the kid but a brief hello and hug. It is sad that they are not present with their kid. I see parents come with older siblings who have the day off and go places with the older child but the younger one gets dropped off at preschool at age four all. Day. Long.whats the point? I have politely asked the older sibling what their dY will be when they are out of school with the parent who took the day off what they will do. The child said something that a whole family could do like go to the zoo or beach. WHY THE HECK IS LITTLE JOHNNY HERE? Why can't mom the him too? Why does mom never take little Johnny somewhere special when they( mom or dad ) have a day off? I know they have the time too because they will divulge they are going to go have me time.

I was a stay-at-home mom for 9 years. Then I worked the other nine. My children went to daycare part-time only could be socialized. I was lucky to have that time. Every single time I wasn't working I would go get them from their dad's house. I wanted to spend time with my kids it just seems to me that parents are just care more about themselves because it'll make them better parents if they have time away from their kids. How much time do they need away from their kids? Then the kids are out of control because the parents have some sort of Parental guilt which is partially because they feel they don't have time to spend with their kids and allow their kids to act like jerks. When in reality the parent is just taking more time from themselves. Now don't get me wrong we do have some parents that pick up their kids early when they get out of work and go to the park and do something fun. Unfortunately that's not the common theme. I think that children will be better behaved and there would be less of these situations if parents were actually took the time to deal with their kids and not feel guilty about disciplining them when they see them so rarely. I pick up time the kids have learned to stay next to the teacher instead of run out of the classroom before the Parenthood a chance to sign them out. The parents are very confused at how well the child is behaved at school. Because the child listened to the teacher. We spend more time with that child bottom line then the parent does. Even though the parent is ultimately the best teacher for the child the second that child leave us the classroom they're running around and jumping and screaming and throwing themselves on the floor and having a fit because they don't get to pick up their sister because the sister was already picked up. I had one instance where kids slap their mother across the face and the mom did nothing. At that point you can remove your child by picking them up or taking them by the hand and walking them out to the car without saying another word if the kids kicking and screaming all the way out to the car what is the matter? Instead they tried to level with the child and the child ended up getting a reward which was them going and getting ice cream don't ask me how that happened.

a reply to: JAGStorm

On the lighter side: I have a friend who says of his grandkids, "We love to see 'em come, and we love to see 'em go,"

The bigger issue and the one that came into my mind when I first saw the thread title is why we have a culture that, to a large degree, celebrates the 'right' to murder babies in what should be the absolutely safest place in the world for them.

I can understand my friend's sentiment. He loves his grandchildren with all his being and would literally put his life on the line for them; but at his age some respite from the energy is wanted. It's not the same as what you're talking about.

I believe that what you are bringing up is related to the issue I mention above. In reality, to birth children into the world then not properly care for, nurture, instruct, and discipline them is, in a very real way, kind of a see low, long-term abortion. A failed parent is essentially killing any chance of that child having a decent, productive, respectable life.

It's all part of one big ball of wax.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: JAGStorm

...

Raising children is a family affair, and it won't get done properly if family ain't there to do it.

This needs to include previous generations (grandparents) as well.

I think it started in the 1960's when there was a movement in our culture to treat children as semi adults who should have as many "rights" as adults.

To me this idea is the beginning of all sorts of perversions of natural orders.

Many times I have had to butt heads with people (wife, mother in law, teachers) on how I raised my children. One of my children, my oldest I did not raise (weekend dad due to divorce). He turned into a hopeless drug addict. His last two places to live were with me (I eventually kicked him out) and then my mother as no one else would have him.

We devoted our time to showing him the errors he made and so on and forced him into working and so on. He is now a manager where he works and has been drug free now for 3 years. My other two children are very successful in their young lives (one is 21 and works fulltime with an architect firm making almost as much as me and the other is just now starting college in August - and I will never let them brainwash her either) because I would never ever put up with disrespectful behavior from them. I never cared what other people thought because they were afterall my children and I would have to deal with them the rest of my life. Other people do not, therefore their opinions never mattered to me.

Yes they still have tension with me, but I do think that when they are totally out of the adolescent stage (these days around 30 yo it sadly seems) they will appreciate that I did everything I could to keep them from falling into this modern moronism that we all have to face.

a reply to: incoserv

This needs to include previous generations (grandparents) as well.

Yes, it does. Definitely. With their wisdom and experience and life skills, our elders are a valuable resource for parents and children. And therefore society as a whole.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Look at the culture kids are raised in today. Violent video games, violent media, violent heroes and a peer group that supports and educates the little kids.

How much time do kids spend in front of a screen watching garbage. Kaptian Kangroo is dead and it's not a wonderful day in the neighborhood. Kids feel the angst, hate and confusion of the parents and act out in accordance with their environment.

You reap what you sow...simple!


www.healthline.com...

The problems won't be solved by scapegoating and finger pointing?

There is actually a quick remedy for any child that threatens to call child services and file a false report. Ship them off to a boarding school.

my teenager made a habit of skipping school last semester. I warned him if he kept it up I would simply call truancy and have him go through the system for a day. That threat alone seemed to whip him back in shape. Although I left him with a fair warning" I won't warn you again, when I see you at home, you will get picked up by an officer."

Now its summer, but he hadnt cut class since.

Honestly, I never heard any of my kids repeat that child services insanity to me. Those parents whose children say that lost control the day they were born. They clearly decided they would never discipline their child and that lack of action just enables and emboldens kids to get worse and worse.

a reply to: JAGStorm

If you are of a "certain age", it is likely that you were raised by parents (or maybe just one "parent") who saw themselves as a member of a community, be it a "family", an ethic group, a religion, a race, a nation, whatever.

They were a "part" of a larger "whole" that was more important than they, themselves.

These were lessons learned under hardship, poverty, prejudice, and war, loss and hope. Lessons that became so ingrained in their beliefs and actions that they became almost indistinguishable from the individuals themselves.

They brought rise to, and could (and would) truly invest in, the ideals behind "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what You can do for your Country!".


They made it possible for succeeding generations to prosper and realize the potential each individual could achieve by focusing on their own vision and goals, unchecked by the limitations their parents had fought so long and hard to overcome.

And these new generations grew.

Unfortunately, weeds, too, grow well.