Why telling someone they must "Repent of sin for salvation" is to propagate a false Gospel...

a reply to: randomuser

If Jesus said the thief was to be with him he was saved and in a saved state. Being baptized in the spirit is as good. The word has also been called the water as well.

Jesus taught His disciples that they would be “baptized (βαπτισθήσεσθε, again from the Greek verb baptidzo) with the Holy Spirit not many days from now,” and that they would “receive power when the Holy Spirit” came upon them (Acts 1:5, 8 ). The fulfillment of this prediction came weeks later at Pentecost, but the concept of God submersing the disciples in the Spirit is nowhere found in the language of the biblical text.

Rather, God baptized Christ’s disciples by “pouring out” His Spirit upon them (Acts 2:17-18, 33), and as a result they were “filled” (i.e., controlled) by Him, and not controlled by new wine as the mockers suggested (2:13). This was to fulfill the prophecy of Joel that God would “pour out” His Spirit (Joel 2:28-29; cited by Peter in Acts 2:17-18). The same thing is seen in Acts 10:45, where the Jews were astonished because “the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.”

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: randomuser

If Jesus said the thief was to be with him he was saved and in a saved state. Being baptized in the spirit is as good. The word has also been called the water as well.

Jesus taught His disciples that they would be “baptized (βαπτισθήσεσθε, again from the Greek verb baptidzo) with the Holy Spirit not many days from now,” and that they would “receive power when the Holy Spirit” came upon them (Acts 1:5, 8 ). The fulfillment of this prediction came weeks later at Pentecost, but the concept of God submersing the disciples in the Spirit is nowhere found in the language of the biblical text.

Rather, God baptized Christ’s disciples by “pouring out” His Spirit upon them (Acts 2:17-18, 33), and as a result they were “filled” (i.e., controlled) by Him, and not controlled by new wine as the mockers suggested (2:13). This was to fulfill the prophecy of Joel that God would “pour out” His Spirit (Joel 2:28-29; cited by Peter in Acts 2:17-18). The same thing is seen in Acts 10:45, where the Jews were astonished because “the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.”

There are two baptisms. Jesus was baptized in water and then baptized with holy spirit as it descended upon him as a dove. That baptism of the spirit anointed Jesus Christ and paved the way for him to return to heaven. The baptism of the 120 disciples on Pentecost was also of the spirit.

All anointed follow Jesus' pattern. They are baptized in water and baptized with holy spirit, that baptism is the calling and choosing to heavenly life, the baptism of the holy spirit. This is being born from above, or born again. Not all who are baptized in water are baptized with spirit. But all who are baptized with holy spirit are also baptized in water, just as our adopted brother, and leader, the son of God, Jesus Christ also was.

Many are taught that everyone is going to heaven. But only those who have been anointed will. And only these receive the baptism of the spirit. And their spirit cries out "Abba, Father" and God's spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are God's children. The majority of people who are taught they are born again, or baptized with spirit have no idea what it means or is or the purpose of it.

It's like when a confused man is told they are a woman and they believe it and then start saying they are a woman, when they really don't know what being a woman is. That is what it is like when someone says they are born again and haven't been called and chosen with the anointing of the holy spirit.

You certainly can not be baptized with the holy spirit if you do not have accurate knowledge of these things. And if you reject the baptism of water which Jesus commanded of you, you also cannot be chosen by God. If you reject his word and his son why would he call and chose you?

"Because those whom he gave his first recognition he also foreordained to be patterned after the image of his Son, so that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.  Moreover, those whom he foreordained are the ones he also called; and those whom he called are the ones he also declared to be righteous. Finally those whom he declared righteous are the ones he also glorified."-Romans 8:30.


Those who are anointed, baptized with the holy spirit go through a process. The first is glorification. This glorification is when the holy spirit opens up the mind of the believer as they study God's word so that they are drawn to Jehovah God. They recognize the truth as God's holy spirit teaches them all things in the scriptures as they study it. This glorification helps lead them to repentance and conversion. After converting to the truth they dedicate their lives to Jehovah and are baptized by water submersion. The water baptism is when they are declared righteous. After water baptism Jehovah may chose to adopt the person who has entered into a dedicated relation with him and anoint that one with holy spirit, this is the calling and choosing.

You have no more say in the matter of being called and anointed than you did when your parents conceived you.

Those who are born from above are adopted sons of God, and adopted brothers of Jesus Christ.

This is a sacred secret hidden from long lasting times and revealed in Jesus Christ and to the anointed Christian congregation.

The entire nation of Israel entered into a dedicated relationship with Jehovah at Mount Sinai, in 1513 B. C. E. after they had left Egypt. Today people from all the tribes and nations and tongues and peoples are approaching Jehovah's house of pure worship and entering a dedicated relationship with him by means of water baptism. And a precious few of these he decides to adopt as sons, brothers of Christ.

" For all who are led by God’s spirit are indeed God’s sons. For you did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: “Abba, Father!” The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children. If, then, we are children, we are also heirs—heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ—provided we suffer together so that we may also be glorified together."-Romans 8:14-17.

If you were anointed and baptized with holy spirit this simple scripture would call out in your spirit and bear witness with you that you have received the calling. And this one:

"He has enlightened the eyes of your heart, so that you may know to what hope he called you, what glorious riches he holds as an inheritance for the holy ones, and how surpassing the greatness of his power is toward us believers."-Ephesians 1:18-19.

In the wilderness the holy compartment of the tabernacle was shielded by a covering from the courtyard. And while all dedicated servants of Jehovah could come to the courtyard and sacrifice to Jehovah only the priests were allowed to pass through the curtain into the holy. So it is with the anointing. If you have not been invited in you cannot peer in and see the process or understand it.

a reply to: randomuser

pointless to argue with a jehovas witness.

a reply to: yuppa

My lack of understanding stabs me in the head.

Agueing should never be done with anyone in my opinion. My knowledge of the English language and even my own increases.

I'm dumbfounded.

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: randomuser

pointless to argue with a jehovas witness.

Arguing, as was pointing out is wrong. But what you say reminds me of what Paul said standing before Festus and Agrippa because of the false charges laid upon him:

"Now as Paul was saying these things in his defense, Festus said in a loud voice: “You are going out of your mind, Paul! Great learning is driving you out of your mind!” But Paul said: “I am not going out of my mind, Your Excellency Festus, but I am speaking words of truth and of a sound mind. For a fact, the king to whom I am speaking so freely well knows about these things; I am convinced that not one of these things escapes his notice, for none of this has been done in a corner. Do you, King A·gripʹpa, believe the Prophets? I know that you believe.” But A·gripʹpa said to Paul: “In a short time you would persuade me to become a Christian.” At this Paul said: “I wish to God that whether in a short time or in a long time, not only you but also all those who hear me today would become men such as I am, with the exception of these prison bonds.”-Acts 26:24-29.

It brings to mind also what Jesus said when he prayed to praise God about his hiding these things but revealing it to the lowly and meek by means of his holy spirit:

"At that time Jesus said in response: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved. All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one fully knows the Son except the Father; neither does anyone fully know the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son is willing to reveal him."-Matthew 11:25-27.

originally posted by: Untun
a reply to: yuppa

My lack of understanding stabs me in the head.

Agueing should never be done with anyone in my opinion. My knowledge of the English language and even my own increases.

I'm dumbfounded.

"So if any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching, and it will be given him."-James 1:5.

Ask and you will receive. God promises to make the wisdom of his little children greater than all of the wisdom of the intellectuals of this world:

"For it is written: “I will make the wisdom of the wise men perish, and the intelligence of the intellectuals I will reject.” Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this system of things? Has not God made the wisdom of the world foolish? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not get to know God through its wisdom, God was pleased through the foolishness of what is preached to save those believing."-1 Corinthians 1:19-21.

And you are correct no one should argue. A Christian is commanded to always be ready to make a defense of the faith they have before all that demand a reason for their hope. Doing so with a mild spirit and deep respect. I find very rarely that people on this website that claim to have wisdom of scripture or who follow Christ display mildness or deep respect to those who have opinions and understandings that vary from their own.-1 Peter 3:2.

But insight slows down anger. And understanding these people have probably been raised in intolerant homes, and taught by intolerant religious leaders, and that is all they understand, they need to be taught by example that love and mercy, mildness and patience are more powerful, and this is really what is coming from God. Where the spirit of God is there resides peace and union and love.