The Iraqi people have spoken: they want the occupation OUT!

I was watching the news earlier and they showed a story from Iraq. There was a massive demonstration there with the people protesting the coalition forces' presence in Iraq. They had effigies of Bush and Blair, and they showed some kids who were apparently karate students drop kicking boards depicting the flag of Israel.

IMO, this leaves the people who claim that all the Iraqis want us there without an argument. Sure, some people might feel this way, but this shows that many are not. Could this be a sign of a trend that is gradually spreading in Iraq? The news story said the Iraqis want to take matters into their own hands now. Is this a bad development for those pushing the "liberation" in Iraq?

Hehehehe, yes, of course they have spoken.
An alleged "tens of thousands" represent the entire Iraqi population.
Thank you, I understand now how representation works.





seekerof

i hate to say it but don't you think things like the car bombs were saying that they wated them there? (i'm not picking on you truthseeka)

i will agree that a mass rally does a better job of pointing out how many of them feel this way. not to mention a little bit neater. i realy feel sorry for all the innocents civilians and soldures alike that have been killed in this misbegotten war.

now the question remains what to do instead of military action. to show we don't like what is going on. santions seemed to be a good way albeit hard on the people but at least it was't war. but now we have that listed amoung war crimes thanks to korea and the recent farce of a war crimes trial. just like nurenburg was a farce.

I for one enjoy the fact that 2 years later they are able to have mass demonstrations to voice their opinions, gee back in the good old days of Sadam they would just shoot them all and let Allah sort them out.

[edit on 9-4-2005 by Endsoftheworld]

it's a fact that the vast majority of the Iraqi Arab population wants the Americans out right now, polls have shown this repeatedly and they expect that idiot puppet regime to put a timetable (less than a year) for the zionists(Americans) to get out of their country and stop stealing their oil, when the puppest refuse to do this there will be a second alsadr uprising..

Originally posted by Seekerof
Hehehehe, yes, of course they have spoken.
An alleged "tens of thousands" represent the entire Iraqi population.
Thank you, I understand now how representation works.

seekerof

Originally posted by Endsoftheworld
I for one enjoy the fact that 2 years later they are able to have mass demonstrations to voice their opinions, gee back in the good old days of Sadam they would just shoot them all and let Allah sort them out.

And you dont think the US-Coalition wishes they could do the same thing? Its merely a formality that they cannot, mainly due to the fact they have every mainstream news service covering the war in Iraq...

These protests ARE representing the majority! ... How many people do you think were scared $#!T-LE$$ of joining those protests - Specifically because they didn't know what the reaction would have been...

Article: Making a Killing in Iraq

Making a killing in Iraq
By Leigh Hughes

By September 30 this year, the United States government will have spent at least US$135 billion on waging war in Iraq, according to the US Congress. This is the equivalent to the cost of building 2 million housing units, paying 2.5 million teachers for a year, or ending world hunger for 6 years.
With the cost of paying for the 135,000-strong occupying army likely to blow out the US military budget, currently at $482 billion, those corporations lucky enough to gain war-related contracts are making a killing.

Up to US$19 billion worth of contracts have been offered by the Bush administration for reconstruction in Iraq. However not only are more contracts in the area of oil extraction than education or health, but the most lucrative deals have been given to companies closely tied to Bush’s Republican Party.

Halliburton, which has donated $700,000 to Bush’s election campaign and was formerly run by Vice-President Dick Cheney, won a no-bid contract worth $9 billion for rebuilding the oil industry. Bechtel, another corporation closely tied to the Republicans, has won many similar contracts worth billions.

More contracts are still being awarded to these businesses, despite the US military finding cases of shoddy work, an unwillingness to employ any of the large number of Iraqis currently unemployed, or rampant overcharging. Bechtel has been criticised for chronic inefficiency and charging $20,000 for $1,000 jobs. Halliburton was found to have overcharged the US Army by $1.09 per gallon on nearly 57 million gallons of imported fuel.

This enormous waste of public money does not benefit the people of Iraq—it is a scam. For companies like Halliburton, only 10% are for projects beneficial to Iraqis, the rest being for supporting the occupation forces and rebuilding infrastructure for oil exports. This more than cancels out any meagre development or aid measures.

In Iraq, education, health care and other services are struggling and actual reconstruction of streets, houses and essential services is slow. Despite this, and high unemployment levels, the occupation forces and the interim puppet government have focused on facilitating corporate plunder and repressing those who resist.

A key goal of the US is the full privatisation of the Iraqi economy and they have retained a law from the Saddam Hussein regime banning trade unions.

To build a truly democratic Iraq the occupation needs to end—and the nations that participated need to pay reparations funded by a tax on corporations.

The pillaging of Iraq by US corporations has shown that the liberation of Iraq is a lie, but we shouldn’t be surprised, its just another day at the office for imperialism.

And If Coalition forces leave Iraq now what will the people who don't want us there say?

I know they will not be singing kumbaya my lord and songs of peace and happiness.

Things will get alot worse and eventually they will fall back to the old days and some other "dictator" will rise up. It will be like a democracy was never there in the first place.

If we leave now the FEW iraqis that don't want us there will eventually see how things were starting to get better and cry for us to come back.

We started it and we'll finish it through!

as posted by ghostsoldier
These protests ARE representing the majority!

Nice rhetorical comments there Che' [ghostsoldier], but your going to have to prove that "tens of thousands" [the "majority" to you and others] represents the 22 million plus people of/in Iraq, k?

Question:
Of those reported "tens of thousands", how many were actually there to protest or were participating in the protests and how many where their for the celebrations?
Al-Sadr has become the next Che Guevara, huh?

How many people do you think were scared $#!T-LE$$ of joining those protests

Hmmm...yeah....okie dokie.
First, site censors are still operational. You are circumventing them....

Secondly, how many of them weren't scared crapless to vote, eh?
Again, nice attempt at rhetoric....




seekerof

[edit on 9-4-2005 by Seekerof]

as posted by ghostsoldier
These protests ARE representing the majority!

Originally posted by Seekerof
Nice rhetorical comments there Che' [ghostsoldier], but your going to have to prove that "tens of thousands" [the "majority" to you and others] represents the 22 million plus people of/in Iraq, k?

Its the same as it is in most of the Western World, you'd find that most people if asked to give a short answer would say - They are opposed to the war, but feel helpless. The other half of the majority just doesnt care... Then there would be a teenie tiny minority that would actually say 'Yes, WAR IS THE ANSWER!"

as posted by ghostsoldier
How many people do you think were scared $#!T-LE$$ of joining those protests

Originally posted by Seekerof
Fisrt, site censors are still operational. You are circumventing them....

Secondly, how many of them weren't scared crapless to vote, eh?
Again, nice attempt at rhetoric....

Site cencors, what burguoise 8ULL-5#!T that is! - Cursing is a natural and ingrained part of the Human language, while it is not neccercary it certainly shouldn't be punished...

Secondly, those votes were the biggest shamble of governmental burocratic 8ULL-5#!T I have ever seen... 8 Million people out of the 26 Million people of Iraq voted... And a good portion of the people who voted didn't even LIVE in Iraq, a good many were Imigrants to live all over the world...

And really what does the Iraqi government achieve? Nothing, except another puppet government for the US to manipulate and extort... And just because 60 percent of the eligible voters voted, doesn't mean they want the US to remain in their country...

[edit on 9-4-2005 by ghostsoldier]

ghostsoldier....

Site cencors, what burguoise 8ULL-5#!T that is! - Cursing is a natural and ingrained part of the Human language, while it is not neccercary it certainly shouldn't be punished...

U2U sent...
I respectfully suggest that you take a few moments and comprehend the two links given.

Its the same as it is in most of the Western World, you'd find that most people if asked to give a short answer would say - They are opposed to the war, but feel helpless.

How many were there protesting and how many were there celebrating?
As for your mention that it is the same in the West.....whose West? Polls are representations. In no uncertain terms does tens of thousands adequately represent the "majority" when applied to total populations. As to those feeling "helpless and opposed" to the war, how many voted? What percent of the entire population of Iraq did they represent? Would you say that 50-60% adequately represents a population versus "tens of thousands", and thats not defining or separating how many were protesting or celebrating.

Secondly, those votes were the biggest shamble of governmental burocratic 8ULL-5#!T I have ever seen... 8 Million people out of the 26 Million people of Iraq voted... And a good portion of the people who voted didn't even LIVE in Iraq, a good many were Imigrants to live all over the world...

Shamble or no shamble there, ghostsoldier, 8 million represents a greater "majority" then "tens of thousands", huh?

And really what does the Iraqi government achieve? Nothing, except another puppet government for the US to manipulate and extort... And just because 60 percent of the eligible voters voted, doesn't mean they want the US to remain in their country...

Whatever.
At least your 'buddy' Saddam won't be oppressing them anymore. No more mass graves. No more shreddings. Shall I go on?
They have a president and two vice presidents.
We will leave when they ask us to leave.
Now, since the government of Iraq represents the "majority", which "they" am I referring to?






seekerof

[edit on 9-4-2005 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by GhostSoldier
And really what does the Iraqi government achieve? Nothing, except another puppet government for the US to manipulate and extort... And just because 60 percent of the eligible voters voted, doesn't mean they want the US to remain in their country...

Originally posted by Seekerof
Whatever.
At least your 'buddy' Saddam won't be oppressing them anymore. No more mass graves. No more shreddings. Shall I go on?
They have a president and two vice presidents.
We will leave when they ask us to leave.
Now, since the government of Iraq represents the "majority", which "they" am I referring to?

You're missing the point, the Government was elected by the people, (you may call them the majority if you wish), BUT - The capitalistic governmental system the US forced upon the Iraqi people doesn't serve them first and foremost, it serves buisiness! It merely opens the market, opening the market allows foreign investors, foreign investors who are multinational monopolies. Once the market is open, that leaves the resources open... Resources such as OIL... The multination corporations are usually American, and once they get the Oil it'll be all S***'s and Giggles for the Corporations, leaving the people worser of than before...

Remember it was your government that put the Saddam Regime in power in the first place! It wasn't until he started causing a problem to your economy that you decided to go to war...

[edit on 9-4-2005 by ghostsoldier]

These protests ARE representing the majority! ... How many people do you think were scared $#!T-LE$$ of joining those protests - Specifically because they didn't know what the reaction would have been...

posted by ghostsoldier

How many people do you think were scared crapless to stand up and protest against Saddam? It works both ways.

Here is a good link about the rapings Saddam used to ploy his political aganda against the Iraqi people

Saddam oppression

Were they scared to stand up under Saddam's regime? I think so

Here's another link

20 years of Oppression

Which is worse, Saddam dictatorhsip or the what they have now?
Once again, do tens of thousands really speak for a whole nation?
No



[edit on 9/4/2005 by SportyMB]

Originally posted by SportyMB
Which is worse, Saddam dictatorhsip or the what they have now?
Once again, do tens of thousands really speak for a whole nation?
No

My theory is that the 10000 people who protests are actually intelligent and politically aware, where as the ther 20-Million people dont care / don't understand... I suppose it shares alot of similarities with the people of the United States...

Saddams was instated in Iraq by the US, the dictatorship started off serving the United States, and HE WAS A MONSTER, HE KILLED 1000's ... BUT you put him there to serve your interests... It wasnt until he stopped serving your interests that it caused problems... IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH "FREEING" THE IRAQI PEOPLE...

Originally posted by Seekerof

as posted by ghostsoldier
These protests ARE representing the majority!

Nice rhetorical comments there Che' [ghostsoldier], but your going to have to prove that "tens of thousands" [the "majority" to you and others] represents the 22 million plus people of/in Iraq, k?

Question:
Of those reported "tens of thousands", how many were actually there to protest or were participating in the protests and how many where their for the celebrations?

You know, just for the record, the original "toppling of the Saddam statue", which was televised throughout the US and the world, featured like 200 people as opposed to thousands yesterday.

So, duh or not, with Saddam gone, this seems like a legitimate representation of the Iraqi opinion.

I think the sooner we leave, the better relationship with Iraq we'll have going forward.


[edit on 9-4-2005 by Aelita]

[edit on 9-4-2005 by Aelita]

Excuse me, but Germany, Italy, and France certainly don't like our presence in their countries...so why don't we leave THERE first. Oh...wait...you mean a DEMOCRAT put those soldiers there...so it's okay? Halliburton and Betchel provided the vast bulk of concrete to build our posts in those countries..oh...wait...but they were contracted by a DEMOCRAT to do that work...so it's okay? We damn near smoked the entire planet by first screwing up the Bay Of Pigs, then going head-to-head with the Soviet Navy with a blockaide around Cuba...oh...but that was with Kennedy in office...okay.

Why is it that when we're poised on the brink of war, or involved in a war, or at risk of setting off WWIII, it seems all okay with the left when a DEMOCRAT'S in office?

Did I mention that 2005 marks the 60th anniversary of our occupation of Okinawa?

[edit on 10-4-2005 by Toelint]

Thats just politics, has been for a long time. nobody said a word against the kosova war, it was done in the name of "ethnic cleansing" when in reality saddam was doing the same. Regardless of where you stand on the war the truth is that this occupation of iraq is wrong for only one reason. The conflict of interest the Bushs have and the cheap oil supplied by iraq. Bush made sure he didn't have to compete with them. I am not a democrat, but now i think that if we pull out it wont be such a bad thing. if another dictator takes power that is the iraqis fault and only theirs, were wasting resources and lives trying to set up a puppet government that will probably never happen. Look how the afghans drove out the soviets, and they were far more ruthless and brutal than we are.if we stay in iraq were just going to have another vietnam. but that seems to be fine with bush's. we are feeling the brunt of the war now in our pockets.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Hehehehe, yes, of course they have spoken.
An alleged "tens of thousands" represent the entire Iraqi population.
Thank you, I understand now how representation works.

seekerof

Sigh, it's a shame that people who speak English don't read it that well. Where did I say that this was an entire representation of the Iraqi people? I said MANY, not MOST or ALL.

But, since you want to say it like that, I have a question. By your logic, how can we take surveys or experiments seriously? By your logic, a sample of a population cannot be extrapolated to the actual population, even with a number in the tens of thousands. My bad, but...

Can you tell me why you can take a small sample of people, say a couple thousand, look for a percentage of something like blood type, and miraculously get percentages that reflect the actual percentages in the human population? Now, you'll probably say that this was a way of showing opinion, not a study of a scientific nature, and you would be right. The point is that you can take a sample population and, done correctly, use this sample to represent the actual population. Of course, there will be errors with the sample, but these errors will be negligible.

Either way, you're wrong on both counts. And as for a majority's opinion mattering, you obviously haven't been paying attention. Here in Texas, 98% of the people in Houston and about 95% statewide oppose the new toll roads plan here. Is that stopping the construction of these roads???

Originally posted by truthseeka
IMO, this leaves the people who claim that all the Iraqis want us there without an argument. Sure, some people might feel this way, but this shows that many are not.

A couple of kids dropkicking wooden representations of President Bush is not an accurate representation of the population of Iraq. That's as if someone from Iraqi thinks President Bush is an accurate representation of all Americans.

Originally posted by Simulacra

Originally posted by truthseeka
IMO, this leaves the people who claim that all the Iraqis want us there without an argument. Sure, some people might feel this way, but this shows that many are not.

A couple of kids dropkicking wooden representations of President Bush is not an accurate representation of the population of Iraq. That's as if someone from Iraqi thinks President Bush is an accurate representation of all Americans.

Again with the English! Did you read my last post? I DIDN'T say that this was how the entire Iraqi population felt!! Simulacra, can I buy some kill from you or Seekerof, because y'all must be on a good one!

And, they were drop-kicking wooden Israeli flags, NOT Bush dolls. Once again we have a problem reading the English language.

Oh, I get it, it's the TITLE that's throwing y'all off. Lol, no wonder advertising works so well; they get your attention with the big letters and leave it up to you to read the smaller print.

So, in case you didn't read the smaller print, e.g. my first post, the title was meant to grab your attention. Once you were sucked into the thread, you were supposed to read what actually happened. Again, peeps, slick advertising.