Guns In America

a reply to: Turquosie

No doubt the federal government has its own weapon trafficking issues. But thats a bit of a differn't discussion.

You just said there was a problem with people arming criminals. Why would you trust the enforcement from people who have a pattern of doing what you are trying to fix?

Why is it so hard to discuss possible gun law reforms and enforcement? Especially when I don't want to restrict law abiding citizens from having guns. There just is no reason to own hundreds of guns that go unchecked.

Simple answer is because we have a 2nd amendment. "..the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Then you go on to dictate what people own.

You want to know why these conversations bear no results?

Take a good hard look in the mirror.

What guns are liberals willing to accept as constitutional rights to bear ?

None, most likely. I grew up with and still know quite a few. Some of them are friends I don’t invite out for anything fun. They are afraid of them, and not willing to educate themselves. I’m convinced they are afraid of themselves and what they might do with them. They are also too afraid to drive, or get a license…if they do drive, start crying when they get a flat tire, etc. Don’t know how to sharpen a knife, and equally as fearful of small pocket knives…especially when you use one to help eat lunch. Some sort of childish mental issue - I expect my toddler to be afraid of such things at first, and then to learn/grow.


What guns are conservatives willing to let go to satisfy the rights of others ?

Already gave all they are going to give. If the government has weaponized drones, nukes, and chemical weapons - so should we. If every modern thing could somehow vanish permanently, being used by none, I would be happy with a sword/axe/bow/etc. That will never happen, especially when those things could be produced by children in the 50’s for fun.


Others have made many valid points. The stuff little people complain about is already largely illegal. More laws, especially when there is already one for it, doesn’t fix anything. The left seems to want to feelz safe, even if they aren’t, instead of actually ensuring their own safety - see it all the time when trying to teach, or lead backcountry trips.


I grew up as a military brat, and “weapons” of some sort were always around. Firearms weren’t locked up - too many. On walls, above doors, behind doors, etc. We were educated and this was a normal part of life - it was never an issue. Started with a knife at two years old, a 22 at 4, never owned an air gun - yes I was expected to keep and maintain them all. My room looked like an equipment shed. Started driving vehicles on the road at 8…tractors and other vehicles on the property at 4, though…not to mention mini bikes, mowers, and whatnot. High school we hunted, brought our firearms/ammo to school and left them in our vehicles to head out right after class. My high school also had a rifle team. We kept the rifles/ammo at school and carried them around in cases like a band student their instruments. Again, no issues. Graduated in the 2000s, btw.

Not sure what happened to people…seem pretty unskilled, overly fearful, and largely useless these days. I respect opinions - forefathers fought and died to maintain your freedom to voice one. We can also rightfully disagree, and infringing on rights is a slippery slope you don’t want to tread - not to mention violating the constitution/legalities. For many who understand the repercussions across all rights, it is also a hill worth dying on. My grandfather might have said “buck up buttercup”. Sans bucking up, he might have said “what can’t get up, can’t get out” - yes a reference to an unzipped fly for someone with a particular distinction.

a reply to: Alignment
It’s funny, there’s a recent study from Sweden I believe.
They established that libs-leftists are narcissists who don’t really care much about the issue or topic they’re screeching about. More how it can give them virtue signaling, political/ social power, or money.
Just like guns ….. they know nothing about them but scream and yip-yap all day long.
Just like racism. They’re supposedly the only ones who can save POC from racism, but they scream “Uncle Tom” or “Oreo” or……. “White supremacist” at any black person that won’t agree with / praise them.
Sick, sick, losers.

a reply to: AntiTrump

N/A to party - Whatever gun the person can competently own. A privilege, not necessarily a permanent right. A privilege that can get rescinded for felonies and 5150's.

Otherwise:

"And what is the reason for buying the AR-15?"

"Do I need one? I want to destroy crates and phonebooks in a natural amphitheater in the mountains nearby, and there is not as much zen in using a shotgun to do that."

People that want to ban them have never shot up crap in the desert with them. The Arizona equivalent of a "bonfire at the beach". In a gunless society, there would be endless news stories of drivers plowing over pedestrians instead.

a reply to: AntiTrump

I like rifles.

Old school, bolt action.

Some of the new high capacity rifles are completely insane to me.

Life is not a video game.

a reply to: Turquosie

There just is no reason to own hundreds of guns that go unchecked.

Why does it matter, if that owner with those hundreds of guns isn't doing anything wrong?? Why is it anyone's business?

a reply to: stevieray
And of course I totally believe that you’re a big gun fan, bolt action and so on ………
Did you find that term / gun concept on wiki ? Lol.
Of course all leftists appreciate bolt action, lever action, pump-tube fed, double barrel, over-under, etc.
Or maybe no …….. maybe they mine one basic idea and use it to pretend forever.

originally posted by: Degradation33
a reply to: AntiTrump

N/A to party - Whatever gun the person can competently own. A privilege, not necessarily a permanent right. A privilege that can get rescinded for felonies and 5150's.

Otherwise:

"And what is the reason for buying the AR-15?"

"Do I need one? I want to destroy crates and phonebooks in a natural amphitheater in the mountains nearby, and there is not as much zen in using a shotgun to do that."

People that want to ban them have never shot up crap in the desert with them. The Arizona equivalent of a "bonfire at the beach". In a gunless society, there would be endless news stories of drivers plowing over pedestrians instead.

Not a privilege. A God given right to have the means to protect yourself and loved ones, from any and all threats. A right that you can choose to forego if you want.
You forfeit all kinds of things if you make it clear that you can’t be trusted. I’m not sure about the felony thing, because so many of them are white collar crimes that have nothing to do with guns or violence, but sometimes you need a line in the sand, and can’t parse it out forever.
You forfeit your freedom of assembly to some degree if you earn yourself a restraining order.
You forfeit a lot of your rights when you get to prison.
So no, nothing conditional about constitutional rights. You just don’t get to use them if you prove that you can’t be trusted to be in society and have no controls put on you.
Responsible decent honest people will never have any conditions on their rights. Jackasses may …….

a reply to: seagull

Because there are people who own hundreds of guns that are selling them to criminals. That's the problem. So it should be much harder to beable to purchase tons of guns that allows for such a thing to occur.

originally posted by: Turquosie
a reply to: seagull

Because there are people who own hundreds of guns that are selling them to criminals. That's the problem. So it should be much harder to beable to purchase tons of guns that allows for such a thing to occur.

...Like the US govt....


So, who then will you get to carry out this notion of getting private people to cease selling legally bought firearms to illegal criminals?

Oh, wait, strawman purchases are already illegal.

a reply to: Turquosie
There are also people that own one gun that sell them to criminals. How about we just lock up and throw away the key for those that buy or sell illegally?

a reply to: stevieray

Not a privilege. A given right to have the means to protect yourself and loved ones, from any and all threats. A right that you can choose to forego if you want.

That way works too. That's the basic point I meant. Instead of innocent until proven guilty, it's a right to own it until you lose it through behavior.

That's a nitpicky semantic debate too. "Is it really a right if it's inherently granted under contingency of upstanding behavior?" Not allowed to be abridged until you give a reason for it to be.

An inalienable right administered as a privilege for law-abidding behavior.

a reply to: Turquosie

Kinda like our own govt., right??

Asking an inherently corrupt govt. to attempt, notice I said attempt, to curtail gun sales in akin to asking a fox to guard a henhouse.

a reply to: seagull

Fair point, but something should be done rather than politicians just passing the buck. But i get your point.. They could just end up throwing some draconian gun law at it, rather than directly addressing the issue with some balanced oversight.

a reply to: AntiTrump

What guns are liberals willing to accept as constitutional rights to bear ?



Answer - None


What guns are conservatives willing to let go to satisfy the rights of others ?

Answer - None



NEXT.............

a reply to: DeadlyStaringFrog

I'm not sure if harsh prison sentences will just fix it. How about enabling audits for private gun owners who buy more than 10 guns a year? Meaning, they can be subject to an audit of those guns (wether they are still owned or have been sold). And possibly to also to declare sales of guns for private owners.

Or some kind of system in place that would generate red flags for potential private gun owners who are selling to criminals.

If that family, who buys many guns at auctions each year and sells to the cartel, was so confident that they would not be caught selling guns that they went on a documentary show, then clearly there are some loopholes present. And im sure there are many more examples.

And this is just one suggestion; im not saying im right but i don't see why we cant just have a honest and fair conversation about this without defaulting to "BAN RIFLES NOW" or "don't infringe on my 2nd amendment rights"..

originally posted by: Turquosie
a reply to: DeadlyStaringFrog

I'm not sure if harsh prison sentences will just fix it. How about enabling audits for private gun owners who buy more than 10 guns a year? Meaning, they can be subject to an audit of those guns (wether they are still owned or have been sold). And possibly to also to declare sales of guns for private owners.

Or some kind of system in place that would generate red flags for potential private gun owners who are selling to criminals.

If that family, who buys many guns at auctions each year and sells to the cartel, was so confident that they would not be caught selling guns that they went on a documentary show, then clearly there are some loopholes present. And im sure there are many more examples.

And this is just one suggestion; im not saying im right but i don't see why we cant just have a honest and fair conversation about this without defaulting to "BAN RIFLES NOW" or "don't infringe on my 2nd amendment rights"..

Ah , READ the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States then Get Back to Me for an Answer . Oh , and do Not Skip Over the Part where is Says......" Shall Not Be Infringed " .

a reply to: JinMI

That's a good question. Perhaps some type of gun oversight committee. The federal government sounds like a disaster for this endevour. Possibly an oversight committee by the each state using some type of national registration system. But, I really wouldn't know how to set something like that up properly and how to prevent politicians from f$cking it up.

As I'm not against gun collectors but some type of system should be in place to generate red flags and require a trail of gun purchases.