Can animals 'Sin'?

a reply to: silo13

Genisis 9
And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.

3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.

6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

I think the answer to your question lies somewhere in the above scripture.

According to Genisis, animal are imbued with fear and dread of humans. It also appears that God has given animals the right to murder mankind because mankind sheds mankind's blood.

I think that's what its saying there.

a reply to: silo13

It's very simple and goes back to the Garden. Did animals eat of the Tree? If not, then they are innocent of the knowledge of good and evil. They really do not know any better. We do.

a reply to: Terpene

I've been thinking about what you said.

Thing is? Animals do know when they've done wrong and act accordingly.

Seems to me living beings of all kinds know right from wrong.

Where they got that knowledge I would have to believe comes from God - others probably not.

So I'm back to yes, believing animals can and do sin.

Nothing in this 'fallen world' is innocent or perfect - if animals were innocent and perfect it would make them better than humans. And even though that's debatable I think you get my point. (?)

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: silo13

It's very simple and goes back to the Garden. Did animals eat of the Tree? If not, then they are innocent of the knowledge of good and evil. They really do not know any better. We do.

As someone else pointed out - the Serpent knew the difference.

I don't think this topic is as 'simple as that' in by any definition.

Maybe God holds different laws for animals but let's say you go on a trip in a forest and a bear leaves you after it gave you a few "hand shakes" that killed you.

Dogs seemingly seem to react to the idea of having done something wrong, so do they know guilt?

Sin is busting God's balls, isn't it? I guess that when a trees falls over because of the wind and God didn't like that, that would be sin.

a reply to: silo13

The serpent was Satan, not a snake. Satan is often referenced as the serpent, and snakes and serpent figures figure prominently in many pagan pantheons.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

He didn't give them this right, he even threatened retaliatory measures. To "require at the hand of X" is to make X pay for his/its trespass, holding it responsible for his/its actions.

a reply to: silo13

Does it matter if they do?

I don't know what the Bible says about their eternal soul?

a reply to: Terpene

I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him? (Ecclesiastes 3:18-22

a reply to: Gentzen

Ok, let's assume animals go to heaven and hell, how does a predator end up in hell?

Or bonobos doing it all the time?

Or will heaven just be for the poor pets that behaved to the Christian doctrines?

a reply to: Terpene

Genesis is now.

The Elohim, that is gods, are the hidden Metaphysicians behind such court buffoons as Gates, Schwab, Putin, Zelensky, Macron, Trudeau, Soros, Musk, Kissinger etc.

Adam and Eve are, respectively, the worldwide, vaccinated Golem and the soon to see the light of day AI Cube Lilith in Crimea, Ukraine, who is the former's brain and goddess.

The beasts are the unvaccinated. The Serpent is the Antichrist.

originally posted by: silo13
a reply to: Ilikesecrets

I've seen animals show remorse yes.

One of the reasons I do believe they know about good and evil.

Lol, do they show remorse, or do they just learn the tone of your voice and the 1 or 2 words / sounds that mean they should hang their heads and look sad. It may just be a conditioned response that has no specific meaning or thought. They’re sad that dad is acting that way again.
The initial learning experience(s) featured some version of pooping or tearing something up, so maybe they grasp some meaning of “wrong” or “bad”.

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Gentzen

Ok, let's assume animals go to heaven and hell, how does a predator end up in hell?

Or bonobos doing it all the time?

Or will heaven just be for the poor pets that behaved to the Christian doctrines?

A lot of animals will love and protect their children just like humans, then eat the next litter for some strange hidden instinctual reason.
Though humans do both extremes too. But a lot less often hopefully.
My favorite animal-heaven story is the Twilight Zone with the old hunting guy and his dog who drown together. One of older original shows. No spoilers ! Gotta watch it !

a reply to: silo13

Sin, in its essence, is the transgression of the divine image in mankind. God created the man and woman to be coregnant with Him, and they were to reflect his glory and nature, His sovereign image by their lives and works. Taking the forbiden fruit transgressed this image bearing mandate and nature because it meant that now the creature wante to not be "in the image" of God, but to be gods themselves.

No animal is made in the image of God, therefore, animals cannot transgress the divine image.

So, no, animals cannot sin.

a reply to: Gentzen

What was that all about? Endtime-Stress-Disorder, gonna brand that...

Whatever your having I'd stop taking it, or start again...

a reply to: Gentzen

He didn't give them this right, he even threatened retaliatory measures.

And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.

Maybe it's my misinterpretation of the sentence structure, but to me this sounds like God will require "your blood" even at the hand of every beast, that is if "IT' is "your blood".
Just my take.

a reply to: silo13

Can an animal perceive Harmony?

Can it conceptualize Spirit?

Is it aware of Evil?


Then how can it sin?

a reply to: silo13

Define SIN please.

No. To sin means to think, feel, or do something that violates God’s standards. In order to sin, a creature must be able to make moral decisions, but animals lack this ability.

Note also what the Bible says about certain ones who "act on instinct" (behaving like animals):

“But these men, like unreasoning animals that act on instinct and are born* [Or “are born naturally.”] to be caught and destroyed, speak abusively about things of which they are ignorant. They will suffer destruction brought on by their own destructive course, suffering harm as their reward for their own harmful course.” (2 Peter 2:12,13) Verse 14 adds: “Their eyes are full of adultery and are unable to desist from sin, and they entice unstable ones.* [Or “souls.”] They have a heart trained in greed. They are accursed children.”

Not exactly the type of behaviour you want to copy and justify by arguing you were born that way (i.e. that it's in your nature to "act on instinct" when you have the power of reason to choose your actions in a manner that primarily your mind determins your behaviour rather than your instinct).

Designed to Last Forever (Awake!—1970)

...

In fact, there is a gigantic gulf between the human brain and that of any animal, showing that they were designed for different purposes. No animal has the capacity to build continually on previous knowledge. While they can be trained to a certain degree, they are not able to pass his special training on to their young; each generation of sheep dogs or of seeing-eye dogs has to be trained by man as previous generations were trained. Animals are guided primarily by instincts built into them by the Creator. That is why, century after century, birds continue to build nests, beavers build dams and bees build hives. Never do they progress beyond that.

Man alone has the brain that enables him to build on the knowledge of the past. That is why he alone can harness fire, electricity and atomic energy. That is why he alone can build and use machines, computers​—even rocket himself to the moon. He is not guided primarily by instinct, but by powers of reason.

...

The Living Word (1953)

... Now as in no previous era men’s hearts and minds are flooded with propaganda, the purpose of which is to determine their course of action. What causes people to do what they do? Ideas. Ideas are in their minds, leading them on in one course or another. People are not automatons, nor do they operate solely by instinct. Men have minds and hearts in which are seated reason and motive. ...

Foreknowledge Compatible with Free Will (1953)

...

If we did not possess free will, but instead our course were fixed for us, we would not have the power of molding our minds according to our wishes, according to the things we chose to take into the brain. We would be more like creatures of instinct, like lower animals. Their brains are not so blank as humans’ at birth; most of their circuits are already there, and they can add but few thereafter. ... They primarily follow God-given instinct. Man, on the other hand, makes up his own mind. And because each one does it differently, each one is a separate individual, a distinct personality. It is a person’s thoughts and acts that make him what he is. Jehovah God so states: “Just as he hath thought in his own mind, so he is.” (Prov. 23:7, Ro) From the heart, which frequently stands for the mind, come words and acts. (Matt. 12:34; 15:19) So what a person thinks, says and does is largely governed by the mind. To change himself, to remold himself, he must change his thinking; for as he thinks, so is he.

...

edit: oh, someone already beat me to it I see now (didn't read the first reply because it was such an easy straightforward question I went straight to answering it, ah well, perhaps there's still something in my comment that wasn't already spelled out exactly the same way, unlike the way I started this comment).

a reply to: whereislogic

Our unity is worldwide. We all speak the one language of truth from the Bible. The answer is the same no matter from which servant of God it comes. The truth is simple and straightforward and easy to understand. We speak the one pure language of truth.