Did the driver shoot Kennedy?....

Blue, I sent you a u2u and suggested you do a Gripe/Idea to explain your situation.

As far as YOUR belief in the government issue JFK murder theory, well, you are entitled. Many in the US probably do.
But, this is a big conspiracy website and many of us aren't so sure your theory is the way it happened. Don't be too surprised if few agree with you. I sure don't.

Thank you DontTreadOnMe, but I'm ok with losing those ATS pointz. I respect yours and other peoples' opinions on the subject at hand, and I realize that I'm the odd one out here... but I've got a question. What evidence makes it so hard to believe that a lone gunman acted by himself to assassinate the president, which has happened many times in the past. No need to elaborate your points.

Ack there was no fourth bullet!! The bullet that hit Kennedy in the neck also hit the governor and shattered his wrist. Yes Mayet, it is possible for a bullet to hit two targets consecutively, its even been recreated 3x with the exact same scenario, seating positions, and rifle.
So in other words, one hit the president's back, one hit the president's neck and governor, and one ricocheted off the curb. 3l\lI) 0f $+0ry

Friend...what about the bullet that blew JFK's head apart? In your scenario, that would be a fourth bullet. Then there was also a fifth bullet that hit a building and ricocheted and scratched a man's face and their was a sixth bullet that hit a sign I believe it was. So six bullets at least, not 3.

Again, in your scenario you don't even mention the head shot! That's JFK Assassination 101 friend!

Originally posted by TheB1ueSoldier
What evidence makes it so hard to believe that a lone gunman acted by himself to assassinate the president, which has happened many times in the past. No need to elaborate your points.

It's a lot of things. The changed parade route to one that offers coverage for shooters. The lack of Secret Service protection near the limosine. Whether he was shot from in front or behind, there should have been a bigger exit wound.
And, the government has given me little reason to want to believe ANY story they spin/create/publish.

Sorry, but there was no change in the parade route. That was only a myth stated in Oliver Stone's "JFK", take a look at this: click.

Thanks, blue, I haven't done much online research about the assassination.
That site you provide is quite interesting.

Have you read Mark Lane's Rush to Judgment?

Sorry, but there was no change in the parade route. That was only a myth stated in Oliver Stone's "JFK"

Wrong....not a myth created by Oliver Stone. It's a fact. The route WAS changed......

You're right. It wasn't created by Stone.

It seems that the "changed motorcade route" is a factoid. It never happened. Evidence was wrenched out of context, and misinterpreted. Ironically, anyone who had read the Warren Commission Report would have known the truth. That volume discussed the parade route extensively (see below). It made it clear that you have to turn on Houston and then Elm to get from Dallas' Main Street to the Stemmons Freeway. If you try driving down Main, you can get to the Stemmons only by driving over a concrete divider strip. That would be illegal, absurdly undignified for the presidential limo, and impossible for the press busses that were a part of the motorcade.

A Garrison Discovery?
In spite of Garrison's claim to have discovered this "changed parade route," this particular factoid had long since been publicized. Apparently, it was a "discovery" of Joachim Joesten, whose book Oswald: Assassin Or Fall Guy? was published in 1964, before the Warren Commission Report was issued. In fact, the Commission was aware of Joesten, and probably put so much effort into dedunking the "changed parade route" claim because of him.

mcadams.posc.mu.edu...

Actually the detail of the motorcade route was discussed in both The Dallas Morning News and Dallas Times Herald starting Tuesday, November 19th. Unfortunately for the likes of Garrison and later Files they relied solely on The Dallas Morning News diagram. The News most likely became a victim of over reporting. They created and error which lead to confusion. Confusion that is for those who lack research ability. The Warren Commission disseminated some of the facts in their report, but since they often got many things wrong, I will leave material portions of that report to the end. I will limit consideration to the actual newspaper articles and maps.

home.comcast.net...

The factors involved in the choice of the motorcade route by the Secret Service have been discussed in chapter II of this report. 2 It was there indicated that after passing through a portion of suburban Dallas, the motorcade was to travel west on Main Street, and then to the Trade Mart by way of the Stemmons Freeway, the most direct route from that point. This route would take the motorcade along the traditional parade route through downtown Dallas; it allowed the maximum number of persons to observe the President; and it enabled the motorcade to cover the distance from Love Field to the Trade Mart in the 45 minutes allocated by members of the White House staff planning the President's schedule in Dallas. No member of the Secret Service, the Dallas Police Department, or the local host committee who was consulted felt that any other route would be preferable.

To reach Stemmons Freeway from Main Street, it was determined that the motorcade would turn right from Main Street onto Houston Street for one block and then left onto Elm Street, proceeding through the Triple Underpass to the Stemmons Freeway access road. This route took the motorcade past the Texas School Book Depository

Page 246

Building on the northwest corner of Elm and Houston Streets. Because of the sharp turn at this corner, the motorcade also reduced its speed. The motorcade would have passed approximately 90 yards further from the Depository Building and made no turn near the building if it had attempted to reach the Stemmons Freeway directly from Main Street. The road plan in Dealey Plaza, however, is designed to prevent such a turn. In order to keep motorists from reaching the freeway from Main Street, a concrete barrier has been erected between Main and Elm Streets extending beyond the freeway entrance. (See Commission Exhibits Nos. 2114-2116, pp. 35-37.) Hence, it would have been necessary for the motorcade either to have driven over this barrier or to have made a sharp S-turn in order to have entered the freeway from Main Street. Selection of the motorcade route was thus entirely appropriate and based on such legitimate considerations as the origin and destination of the motorcade, the desired opportunity for the President to greet large numbers of people, and normal patterns of traffic.

www.archives.gov...

There was only one way for the motorcade TO go driving through downtown, if they wanted to get to the freeway, and that was right past the book depository, and the grassy knoll.

[edit on 2/18/2006 by Zaphod58]

Game, Set, and Match.


P.S.- Is there anything wrong with my avatar this time?

I've got a real short B & W vid clip of the driver turning around (can't remember where I got it) email me, [email protected] & I'll email 2U

Hmmm let's see here. The guy is driving the car with the President and First Lady behind him, and the governor of Texas next to him, hears the governor obviously react to something with at the least a grunt of pain, and god knows what from the President behind him. OF COURSE HE'S GONNA TURN AROUND! He's going to turn around to see what is going on, and if it's something major that he has to react to!

Would it be more normal for the driver to not even respond to gunshots and screaming? Hes escorting the president of the United States of course he'll take a glance behind him, and he only looks after the gunshots!

one theory says that the president had 2 bullets go through his head... also very important is that no autopsy of the brain has been done...

also the 2 shooters theory(reality) would be or was a perfect cover-up for the driver killing jfk BECAUSE allegedly the secret service had the children of all the people in the car somewhere hidden and would kill them if they warned jfk...

it was not supposed to be an ordinary gun in the drivers hands but certainly not a sling shot...

never the less L.H. Osvald was not the assasin and thats proven


here i think its not about HOW was he killed or by WHO ... but WHY!?

Many people believe in a second gunman or the driver shooting the prez because the president's head jerks backwards when shot from behind.

Now common sense would tell you that a head would jerk fowards if shot from behind, but physics tells us differently. I recently asked my physics professor about this, and he said it was very simple to explain. The hole that a bullet creates when entering a head is actually very small and does not have enough mass to push it forwards. However, when the bullet exits the head it carries with it fragments of skull, flesh, and quite a lot of blood. This burst of mass exiting the head acts as propulsion and pushes the head the opposite way of the exiting mass, which is backwards. Thus, when a relatively small object is shot, if shot correctly, it will jerk backwards. This should be another nail in the coffin.

Btw, I did the gripe/idea thing and I got my old account back.

A great documentary on the subject that can be seen on Google Video.

JFK II - The Bush Connection

Back and to the left...... Back and to the left....... Back and to the left.....

Originally posted by Qwas
I've heard the story of the driver before.
What I find interesting is Jacqueline Kennedy tried to crawl off the back of the limo very rapidly. Now if the shots came from a building, why leave the limo with Secret Service everywhere? But if the shots came from within the limo, then what Jacqueline did makes sense.

Yes I've always thought that to be quite interesting, her scrambing very quickly out the BACK, away from the the driver.

I didn't check the rest of the posts to see if it was mentioned... But I have come accross information (i'll have to research more) that the driver shot Kennedy with shellfish poison, and this is why his brain was stolen. Shellfish poison kills instantly, and can be traced easily. The entirety of is brain was not there when he was brought to Washington for autopsey.

Now, whether this confirms my opinon on the driver being the fatal shot (or one of them) is not yet decided. I'll have to research more.

And like the creator of this thread, I would like to see the version of the Zapruder film that was NOT tampered with.

Lee Harvey Oswald had a very unsettled child hood. Between the Autumn of 1945 and July 1956, Oswald attended 12 different schools, due to various expulsions for truancy, and fighting, to name but a few. Oswald’s home life was also notably bad. His relations his mother and brother were most sour due to Lee’s glorification and dedication to Communist, most notably, Marxist principles.

Oswald joined the Marine corps and on Oct. 26, 1956 reported for basic training. Whilst in the Marine corps Oswald excelled at nothing other than marksmanship with rifles. He was detested by the rest of his regiment due to his open support for Communism. In Japan, during 1957, Oswald was court-martialled for shooting himself in the arm. He was again court-martialled on June 27 1958 for fighting with a Sergeant. On September 11 1959, Oswald was released from Service.

During October 16 1959 Oswald arrived in Moscow. He was met with suspicion by the Communists, and ordered to return back to the USA. Oswald thus, made an attempt at suicide on the October 21 1959, leading the USSR authorities to believe he was dedicated enough to be integrated into the communist society. In the USSR Oswald led the life of a normal Communist worker, and was loved by the Russian locals who admired Oswald’s courage. Oswald thrived on the attention. However, Oswald sights had moved onto a new goal, and in February 1961 Oswald wrote, through the US embassy, to try and regain American citizenship. Still in the USSR, he meets Marina Nikolayevna Prusakova on March 16 1961. The two go on to get married in Minsk on April 30 1961.

By March 1963 Oswald had returned, with his Russian wife, to the USA. He worked at a welding firm, whilst living with his brother. While in America, Oswald is still practicing and preaching Communist ideals. He is on TV for brief periods whilst handing out leaflets promoting good relations between the US and Communist Cuba.

It is at this period in Oswald’s life that he begins to become more revolutionary and militant. On March 12 1961 Lee orders rifle from ad for Klein's Sporting Goods in American Rifleman, and in March 1963 he moves to 214 West Neely Street where he receives delivery of both the pistol and rifle. In April 1963 Oswald’s wife takes a photograph of him in his black “hunter of fascists” outfit, whilst he sports his rifle.

On April 10 1963, Oswald makes an assassination attempt on the life of General Walker, an anti-Communist army leader. He leaves the following note for Marina, his wife, in case he is either killed or arrested:

page 1: mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
page 2: mcadams.posc.mu.edu...

The attempt fails, however Oswald is undeterred and his wife reports him as saying “I have bigger fish to fry, what goes around comes around” shortly after the attempt.

On August 9 1963 Oswald is arrested in altercation for passing out “fair play to Cuba leaflets”. He is once again famous, shortly, and thrives on the attention. He speaks to local news reporters and was heard on many US radio shows where he always stated “I am familiar with the works of Lenin and Marx”.

Oswald then crosses the border into Mexico, where he seeks refuge and asylum at both the USSR and Cuban embassies. Both reject Oswald, on the grounds of his desertion from Russia.

Oswald moves back to Dallas where he finds a job in the book Depository. A few weeks into his job the local newspaper reports the route of the open top limousine carrying the president.

Nov. 22, 1963, 12:30 pm. 3 shots are fired, all at JFK. The first misses, causing the senator to turn around and Kennedy to be spooked. The second shot enter Kennedy’s upper right back and follows through into the lower torso/upper stomach of the senator. The Zapruder tape is the only tape which shows the whole of the assassination from beginning to end. Using this, a US programmer has made a 360 degree completely accurate model. Using this and the alignment of the shot

That is a very clear description of Oswald's past, but there is just one problem... his CIA involvement was left out.


Back on the subject of the Driver shooting Kennedy... I've come, more so, to doubt this case. Not to say it's ruled out, but there is just doubt.

His assassination is much too large for us to comprehend. There are probably people/groups involved that we don't even know about. I've been so interested in this case, but the more I consider everything involved, the more I see just how inferior we are to the powers behind this, and behind everything else in our world. We are but mice in their mazes, trying to find the cheese. The reality is, they won't give us the cheese.