Holloman UFO Landing Footage : New Revealing Analysis

a reply to: mirageman

The real truth is…on the whole….it’s still a unsolved mystery.

In the side by side craft vs F-4 comparison the debunker says it’s “speculation”

Well here’s my alternative, what if, speculation….



At a distance in terms of general worldwide witnessing flying saucer viewed characteristics

F-4 has wings……..from a side profile, a saucer could appear to be winged.
F-4 has a landing light……a saucer has lights
F-4 has a 3 wheel landing gear……a saucer can have a tripod land gear.

In the reverse…….at distance….the front dead on shot view of this F-117 appears to have a outline that can be seen by general witnessing as a flying saucer with it tripod landing gear.



I’m simply not in total agreement with the debunker.

If there’s a film out there somewhere….whatever it show’s, may be a truth.

Moving forward…..I’m just hoping for a landing or crash landing in a populated area.

I stopped drinking alcohol 15 years ago…….but if it’s finally revealed aliens exist without a doubt, worldwide…..then I’m gong to crack open this Alien head decanter of Outer Space Vodka (70%) and toast (probably keep on toasting) to a new reality 😉


Until then….it remains sealed to age.

Nuff said…..

Back to topic….

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a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Yep, I don't think we can positively ID the aircraft from the limited few frames.

But the story behind this story is more intriguing. Why was Emennegger recruited to make the documentary and spun a story promising footage of an alien landing?


Anyway don't get spaced out just yet Ophi. But enjoy your evening.

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Yes, but also looks like a short gif in a loop. I even think the 'loop' played out in reverse sequence few times.

On the other hand, I recall 'up and down' jumps in submerging UFO video from NAVI. There is similarity.

originally posted by: DaydreamerV
a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Yes, but also looks like a short gif in a loop. I even think the 'loop' played out in reverse sequence few times.

The loop doesn’t play out in reverse just forward.

Unfortunately……ATS only allows YouTube vids to be embedded.

For my posting…..I was the one who did a gif. On top of that, ATS has a 2Mb limit on gif’s.

So the gif I made was sourced from here….

Alleged video snippet of Holloman AFB UFO

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a reply to: mirageman

A few of names dropped here…….that might lead to something

From JV’s book

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a reply to: mirageman

In reference to the last paragraph in my post above…..if it is suggested as Vallee writes….that the “Flying Bathtub” is or could be the craft of Holloman…..I’ll have to disagree.

I wouldn’t categorize the side view as being mistaken for a flying saucer, especially in the classical flying saucer looking sense.


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a reply to: mirageman

Another name dropped from WPAFB……

From the 1990 book titled ….UFOs in the 1980’s by Jerome Clark

Emenegger's military sources said he would be given 3200 feet of film taken of the landing. At the last minute, however, permission was withdrawn, although Emenegger and Sandler were encouraged to describe the Holloman episode as something hypothetical, something that could happen or might happen in the future. Emenegger went to Wright-Patterson AFB, where Project Blue Book had been located until its closing in 1969, to ask Col. George Weinbrenner one of his military contacts, what had happened. According to Emenegger's account, the exchange took place in Weinbrenner's office. The colonel stood up, walked to a chalkboard and complained in a loud voice, "That damn MIG 25! Here we're so public with everything we have. But the Soviets have all kinds of things we don't know about. We need to know more about the MIG 25!" Moving to a bookshelf and continuing his monologue about the Russian jet fighter, he handed Emenegger a copy of J. Allen Hynek's The UFO Experience (1972), with the author's signature and dedication to Weinbrenner. "It was like a scene from a Kafka play," Emenegger would recall , inferring from the colonel's odd behavior that he was confirming the reality of the film while making sure that no one overhearing the conversation realized that was what he was doing.

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Col.George Weinbrenner did in fact serve as commander of the FOREIGN TECHNICAL DIVISION (previously Foreign Technology Division) at WPAFB (Nov 1968-Jul 1974)

FOREIGN TECHNICAL DIVISION

It has been said somewhere in a memo, doc, etc…that UFO’s have been taken to the Foreign Technology Division at WPAFB.

The Col would have been in position to know. Unfortunately he died in 2010.

Here’s a old mention of where to send Sightings reports etc……ala the Foreign Technology Division


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originally posted by: Ophiuchus1

originally posted by: DaydreamerV
a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Yes, but also looks like a short gif in a loop. I even think the 'loop' played out in reverse sequence few times.

The loop doesn’t play out in reverse just forward.

So the gif I made was sourced from here….

I see.

But it could be that you unknowingly have made a gif from another gif. Can you tell me please the duration of gif loop? In your short video I would like to know where the loop ends and new loop starts...what time mark aprox?

originally posted by: DaydreamerV

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1

originally posted by: DaydreamerV
a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Yes, but also looks like a short gif in a loop. I even think the 'loop' played out in reverse sequence few times.

The loop doesn’t play out in reverse just forward.

So the gif I made was sourced from here….

I see.

But it could be that you unknowingly have made a gif from another gif. Can you tell me please the duration of gif loop? In your short video I would like to know where the loop ends and new loop starts...what time mark aprox?

A gif is an animation and does not display a time mark like a video. Put it this way, I’ve found no tool that would break it down to a time mark.

If you view the source Reddit video link I posted…..I made the gif from time stamp 00:00 to 00:14 of the video.

When analyzing the gif itself…..this is the only info given.


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a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Ophi, I always wondered if these cases that are given to certain teams to decide whether or not warrants an investigation, would harm their careers. The stigma persists, so, hence, no real investigation with merit.

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Ophi, I always wondered if these cases that are given to certain teams to decide whether or not warrants an investigation, would harm their careers. The stigma persists, so, hence, no real investigation with merit.

Q……MM does a good job of presenting the Holloman case…. we both agree it’s somewhat of a mystery….still.

You already know…..ufo stigma of reporting by professionals have been career killers….if not career killers….then endless chastising is the outcome. Hopefully with the gov’s new rules…..that sort of thing becomes a memory of the past.

If there’s a top two cases that the government should retro investigate, its Roswell and Holloman…..imo.

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originally posted by: Ophiuchus1

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Ophi, I always wondered if these cases that are given to certain teams to decide whether or not warrants an investigation, would harm their careers. The stigma persists, so, hence, no real investigation with merit.

Q……MM does a good job of presenting the Holloman case….however we both agree it’s somewhat of a mystery….still.

You already know…..ufo stigma of reporting by professionals have been career killers….if not career killers….then endless chastising is the outcome. Hopefully with the gov’s new rules…..that sort of thing becomes a memory of the past.

If there’s a top two cases that the government should retro investigate, its Roswell and Holloman…..imo.

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Indeed, Roswell does not seem right ... call it a gut instinct.

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

I absolutely believe the event. Thanks Ophiuchus1.

a reply to: DaydreamerV


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originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
a reply to: DaydreamerV

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You know the US government wish they could keep a secret like this lol. There was a lot of folks stationed there that day, a day a ufo piloted by aliens from another world lands. The film maker incorporated a rumor in his film.

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Thanks for posting up all the extra info.

In reference to the last paragraph in my post above…..if it is suggested as Vallee writes….that the “Flying Bathtub” is or could be the craft of Holloman…..I’ll have to disagree.

Yes. The "Flying Bathtub" or NASA M2-F1 was retired in August 1966 and does not appear to have been flown at Holloman. The UFOs It Has Begun/Past, Present and Future documentaries were filmed in the mid 1970s. So highly unlikely that they used stock footage from the first half of the 1960s of the Bathtub on an unrecorded flight at Holloman!

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

I've created a new animated gif from the better quality video on YouTube here : www.youtube.com...



I think the original gif you posted suffered from not knowing where the start and end sequence were placed and the adjustment to the zoom lens during the sequence. This time I've made it clear which is the last frame and paused it for a second on that final frame.

I will add that it is not possible to tell what the aircraft is from this gif. However, given all the evidence provided in this thread I am satisfied it is nothing more than a plane.

It still leaves questions over the promise to the filmmakers of footage of an alien landing at Holloman AFB.

Some additional information from a 2008 interview interview with Bob Emennegger by Angelia Joiner just after the X-Conference.

....Then we reached the point where I thought we were going to show the landing at Holloman Air Force Base and I thought it would be on film.

And, Coleman said, "Look, we've decided that it's too sensitive, that Watergate has just happened," blah, blah, blah.

So we had to end up doing it in animation. But, I had all the instructions of where this craft -- back to the craft -- where it landed, who came out, where did they meet, where was the craft stored for a few days. (Military film footage of the actual landing was not forthcoming, as Emenegger and his partner had been told it would be.)

So it appears that Grant Cameron either misunderstood or confabulated that Emennegger placed 8 seconds of this elusive footage into his documentary that ".. didn't show anything". Emennegger appears to have never got his hands on it.


Some more interesting comments frrom that interview on the craft and occupants (and the CIA!).

...It looked like a UFO shape, you know three pods, the door slid open and two or three men, short by our standards and, I guess they were men, with a head dress of some sort, stepped forward and they seemed to communicate, which gave the idea that maybe this was prearranged....They asked them questions. Now, I'm only going by what they told me.

Angelia - Right.

Bob - They asked the visitors, "Do you recognize these radio signals? Are they yours?" And they answered back, "They're not ours. We don't know whose they are." Then they went into some inner office.

The craft, they told me which building they put it in, which is no longer there. Somebody from Wright Patterson was like an attendant to them -- a CIA guy named Alfonso Lorenzo, wherever you are Alfonso?...

Then some more that mentions the flying bathtub. [Emphasised in bold]

...The craft was taken to a hangar at the end of Mars Avenue, as I was told, but I went to the air base. I went to the air base to ask questions of the radar people and one radar guy. I said, "It must've really been something when that thing came down." He said, "Yeah, it sure was, you mean the flying bathtub?"

Angelia - Flying bathtub?

Bob - I said, yeah, it was. I said, "What did you think?" He said, "We don't talk about it." He said, "You ought to talk to the photographic team; maybe they can tell you more."

Angelia - Did they have pictures?

Bob - Those guys were no longer on duty so it was like me asking, you know, the people who lived in your house 10 years ago. They weren't around.

Angelia - So you never saw any photos?

Bob - I didn't and I have to admit it. But, then I went down to Mars Avenue where the craft was taken and there was a guy in one of those blue... you know, an officer drove us down there and he said, "Well, let's look and see. There's the building that you were asking for." So it was sort of hard to get in so he had a crow bar so we crow barred open this little hangar, you know, he's as curious as I am, I guess, and there wasn't anything in it but a couple of jet engines.

You know, what do I expect? Like a few years later, it's not there anymore....

Maybe this is the origin of the "flying bathtub" story? But it really sounds like Emennegger was given the runaround once he'd been snared to make his UFO documentary.

a reply to: mirageman

I appreciate your focus and cleanup on where the last frame is in analyzing my gif clip….but let’s put this aside for a moment.

What about the frames (the footage) …I pointed out…that preceded your clip and the shows clip of just the decent portion?

I submit that the clip is longer in duration then what was shown on the tv show which is what your cleaner clip shows.

The elephant in the room is what’s shown in the beginning of a longer extended clip not used on the show or taken into account in your analysis …..found at least in two places below…(there may be other postings out there in www land)

Holloman extended clip - uploaded 14 years ago


Holloman extended clip - uploaded 1 year ago

The extended clip also shows up in the DVD box set titled UFOs: The Footage Archives - UFOs Caught on Camera - The Complete Collection produced in 2005…compiled converted from a bunch of UFO’s on VHS.

The Holloman cameras, it is said, shot film in 16mm. For us to see what we see, the 1st clip conversion was more than likely converted to VHS of the time…..and now what we see is the 2nd conversion to digital.

You have mentioned that your opinion of those first frames of footage where the object appears to me to moving up and down like a boat anchored and buoyant in heavy waves….is at the transitioning of the camera switching through lenses and focus…or words to that effect.

I don’t concur with that….,

The object clearly bob’s (wobbles) up and down preceding and post the camera lens switching or editing transition of a leaker.

I submit that post the tv show production….the extended clip showing more than the decent portion shown on tv…….was leaked out. And perhaps from the same camera film reel…..or from another camera film reel.

It is mentioned there were two cameras on the ground and one in a helicopter.

It could be possible that all 3 films were spliced together for one consolidated film reel for AF purposes. The “extended” clip leaked….could have been a small portion of the longer consolidated film reel.

No one wants to accept the preceding footage of the object bobbing up and down before descending……yet those preceding frames footage, imo, appear to be consistent with the object appearance and surroundings …prior to the more accepted decent portion only.

It’s like…for many years….people had blinder’s on and focused solely on the decent portion of the object that was shown on the tv show.

Then here comes an extended clip showing the craft bobbing up and down, preceding it’s decent ….and nobody addresses the possibility that this extended clip had been leaked post the tv showing…and probably part of the full film….buried in the bowls of the USAF.

And so…….we have an extended mystery……where and from who, did the extended clip come from?

I further submit that the footage of the object bobbing up and down (left pic screenshot) is possibly from actual footage not shown on the tv show. But that the object on the right (right pic screenshot) could have possibly been an F-4 for the re-enactment and showing on tv. Notice the same topography in the background in both screenshots.



If the object on the right….which was shown on the tv show……is an F-4 (as analyzed by the debunk vid) for re-anactment purposes…..then surely the object on the left is not the same. The profile of the object on the left is different…imo.


Imo…….this could be a legit UFO….from actual USAF film at Holloman….
Of course I have no proof……but does anybody?

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