Roger Waters in trouble for wearing a Nazi SS uniform

www.foxnews.com...

Roger Waters, founder and former lyricist for the rock band Pink Floyd, came under fire for appearing in an SS uniform during a Berlin concert last week.

Waters performed on May 17 at Germany's Mercedes-Benz Arena where, according to local journalists, a screen projected the words, "The show will start in 10 minutes and a court in Frankfurt has ruled that I am not an antisemite." It continued, "Just to be clear, I condemn antisemitism unreservedly."

Despite this declaration, the night was filled with various amounts of offensive and antisemitic images. Most notably, after the concert’s intermission, Waters came onto the stage wearing an SS officer uniform complete with a red armband and a fake rifle. Behind him, an inflatable pig floated above the crowd with Third Reich-style banners with crossed hammers instead of swastikas.

this falls under the:
Have you ever heard "The Wall"? and Have you ever heard of "History'?

I think the will to be important have jumped the shark. For those who don't know, when someone is conveying a message in their art, they use many different methods. And actor might wear offensive clothing, as they are portraying someone from history. Like if an actor dresses like Hitler. He isn't glorifying Hitler, he is portraying him. Well this is the same thing. And it's really, really dumb that it has to be explained.

The Wall is an epic album that follows a timeline of a child growing up in war torn Germany and chronicles that child growing up as a result of all he has witnessed. There was a movie and music videos made, and the album had a good portion of the songs become hits. It's quite popular. But just as you cannot be angry at the animated hammers marching in lockstep, you can't be angry at Waters for dressing as a Nazi.

I don't agree with Waters' politics. But I think he has a rare gift with lyrics and music and I really enjoy his music, his perspective, and his ability to tell a story with a song.

I really don't understand why this would upset anyone, unless they had no idea who Pink Floyd was, and even then, why not ask someone?

a reply to: network dude

Doh!

Roger Waters make me think. Me no like to think. Thinking hard. Make head hurt. Gubbemint say me no think. Gubbemint think for me. Roger Waters go away.

originally posted by: network dude
www.foxnews.com...

Roger Waters, founder and former lyricist for the rock band Pink Floyd, came under fire for appearing in an SS uniform during a Berlin concert last week.

Waters performed on May 17 at Germany's Mercedes-Benz Arena where, according to local journalists, a screen projected the words, "The show will start in 10 minutes and a court in Frankfurt has ruled that I am not an antisemite." It continued, "Just to be clear, I condemn antisemitism unreservedly."

Despite this declaration, the night was filled with various amounts of offensive and antisemitic images. Most notably, after the concert’s intermission, Waters came onto the stage wearing an SS officer uniform complete with a red armband and a fake rifle. Behind him, an inflatable pig floated above the crowd with Third Reich-style banners with crossed hammers instead of swastikas.

this falls under the:
Have you ever heard "The Wall"? and Have you ever heard of "History'?

I think the will to be important have jumped the shark. For those who don't know, when someone is conveying a message in their art, they use many different methods. And actor might wear offensive clothing, as they are portraying someone from history. Like if an actor dresses like Hitler. He isn't glorifying Hitler, he is portraying him. Well this is the same thing. And it's really, really dumb that it has to be explained.

The Wall is an epic album that follows a timeline of a child growing up in war torn Germany and chronicles that child growing up as a result of all he has witnessed. There was a movie and music videos made, and the album had a good portion of the songs become hits. It's quite popular. But just as you cannot be angry at the animated hammers marching in lockstep, you can't be angry at Waters for dressing as a Nazi.

I really don't understand why this would upset anyone, unless they had no idea who Pink Floyd was, and even then, why not ask someone?

You got the part about the Wall's narrative being about a person growing up in war torn Germany wrong. Try England/Great Britain/The UK.

As for Water's dressing up in an SS uniform in Germany, they're a little more sensitive to that stuff than elsewhere and have laws about it as well, so I can understand the controversy. I also think I understand what Waters was getting at. However, all in all, I think he was being insensitive in doing what he did and where he did it.

I have to agree OP.

How many times has the "performance" been put on? Hundreds? Thousands?

The more "sensitive" we become, the more trouble we are going to find ourselves in.

Learn from mistakes, don't relive them.

Nevermind the Hugo Boss uniforms what about the families who were financing Hitler (and SS Chief Heinrich Himmler's Keppler fund) as late as 1944?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: network dude

Rewriting history is difficult when someone keeps reminding you of it.

originally posted by: MrInquisitive

originally posted by: network dude
www.foxnews.com...

Roger Waters, founder and former lyricist for the rock band Pink Floyd, came under fire for appearing in an SS uniform during a Berlin concert last week.

Waters performed on May 17 at Germany's Mercedes-Benz Arena where, according to local journalists, a screen projected the words, "The show will start in 10 minutes and a court in Frankfurt has ruled that I am not an antisemite." It continued, "Just to be clear, I condemn antisemitism unreservedly."

Despite this declaration, the night was filled with various amounts of offensive and antisemitic images. Most notably, after the concert’s intermission, Waters came onto the stage wearing an SS officer uniform complete with a red armband and a fake rifle. Behind him, an inflatable pig floated above the crowd with Third Reich-style banners with crossed hammers instead of swastikas.

this falls under the:
Have you ever heard "The Wall"? and Have you ever heard of "History'?

I think the will to be important have jumped the shark. For those who don't know, when someone is conveying a message in their art, they use many different methods. And actor might wear offensive clothing, as they are portraying someone from history. Like if an actor dresses like Hitler. He isn't glorifying Hitler, he is portraying him. Well this is the same thing. And it's really, really dumb that it has to be explained.

The Wall is an epic album that follows a timeline of a child growing up in war torn Germany and chronicles that child growing up as a result of all he has witnessed. There was a movie and music videos made, and the album had a good portion of the songs become hits. It's quite popular. But just as you cannot be angry at the animated hammers marching in lockstep, you can't be angry at Waters for dressing as a Nazi.

I really don't understand why this would upset anyone, unless they had no idea who Pink Floyd was, and even then, why not ask someone?

You got the part about the Wall's narrative being about a person growing up in war torn Germany wrong. Try England/Great Britain/The UK.

As for Water's dressing up in an SS uniform in Germany, they're a little more sensitive to that stuff than elsewhere and have laws about it as well, so I can understand the controversy. I also think I understand what Waters was getting at. However, all in all, I think he was being insensitive in doing what he did and where he did it.

not a fan of his politics but a huge fan of his lyrics and music. saw the concert a few days ago in munich. bit of a overkill but pretty amazing. saw him with the wall many years ago in berlin and munich an no one gives a # about this uniform. its part of pinks story.

a reply to: network dude

Hey, have you binge watched the series "Europa: The Last Battle"

crazy

a reply to: network dude

I really don't understand why this would upset anyone, unless they had no idea who Pink Floyd was, and even then, why not ask someone?

Totally agree with your post , I think they're trying to cancel Roger because he speaks his mind , can't have that these days , of course he isn't an antisemite but some people want to portray him as such for their own nefarious reasons.

This is probably why they're upset.

a reply to: gortex

I can't help by think, if a Floyd show triggers these folks this much, would they survive a viewing of Inglourious Basterds?
www.imdb.com...

a reply to: network dude

Dunno.

A big part of this is the German government tries to own the narrative in Germany on "what happened?", the 1933-1945 version, that is. Part of that narrative ownership is outlawing the open display of Nazi symbols, including uniforms.

On one level, I feel like the German government has the right to enforce their own laws in their country, and I also think that celebrity or not, the law should be applied equally to everyone. The example of actors is relevant, but I would guess that in Germany the producers have to clear films with such content with somebody in the government to ensure that glorification of the Third Reich is avoided.

On another level, I am not impressed with the overall approach German government and society has taken in regards to that era, but those thoughts belong in a different thread.

Cheers

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

and i am happy to live in a largely peaceful and social society which is aware of the dark shadows of its past. the holocaust is real. the killing industry is real. the extermination of 10,000 million people in kzs is real. the deaths of world war 2 are real. and just as real are right-wing extremists who murder people because of the color of their skin or their origin, who have a picture of hitler hanging over their bed at home and see themselves as part of a sublime white race that must be preserved. these people are real and they carry on the hatred that was sown back then, and they are proof of what happened back then, because they represent the type of people who helped organize, supported and approved the extermination machinery back then.

and as you can see our laws are working too. there were protest against waters concerts but no violence. germans love to protest. some cities try to cancel the show but failed because of freedom of art, i guess. i went to the concert and i hadn't a good feeling but it was a #ing amazing dark and bitter experience. sound was great. waters is old, still angry and somewhat relevant. he is a genius but as we had learned from his lyrics he fails from time to time, like everyone.

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2
a reply to: network dude

On one level, I feel like the German government has the right to enforce their own laws in their country, and I also think that celebrity or not, the law should be applied equally to everyone.

One day government is deciding what you wear. The next they’re throwing you in the gas chambers. What an exquisite idea. Government shouldn’t have any say in how any individual chooses to dress, offensive symbology or not. People need to realize that the world doesn’t revolve around them or their feelings and get tf over it.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: network dude

I really don't understand why this would upset anyone, unless they had no idea who Pink Floyd was, and even then, why not ask someone?

Totally agree with your post , I think they're trying to cancel Roger because he speaks his mind , can't have that these days , of course he isn't an antisemite but some people want to portray him as such for their own nefarious reasons.

This is probably why they're upset.

While I believe it's impossible to even imagine that these dimwits don't know "Pink Floyd - The Wall" and what it's about... There is a sliver, a minute sliver of possibility that I'm living in a fake reality and all you people are just a figment of my imagination. I've created you. Only I exist. I unknowingly create the world around me.

So yeah... I've got nothing. It's impossible that they don't know all about this and as it's been mentioned, done to death. Maybe everyone just suddenly got collectively tired of his smartassery. There was something about Gilmore maybe over the past year? that hit the news where not so many people were happy about it. I'll have to see if I can find it. People are playing witch hunt right now.

Nothing is normal. It's the 1800s mentality all over again. This time, I don't think it's the bad acid.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: gortex

I can't help by think, if a Floyd show triggers these folks this much, would they survive a viewing of Inglourious Basterds?
www.imdb.com...

Being that "Inglorious Basterds" doesn't glorify the Nazi's, unlike how Water's performance could be interpreted, I think the folk in question wouldn't have a problem with the former. I could, however, imagine that some people might have a problem with the fictional history it portrays, i.e. the Yanks and French Resistance killing Uncle Adolf (oops, spoiler alert)/sarcasm.

originally posted by: hateyourgovt

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2
a reply to: network dude

On one level, I feel like the German government has the right to enforce their own laws in their country, and I also think that celebrity or not, the law should be applied equally to everyone.

One day government is deciding what you wear. The next they’re throwing you in the gas chambers. What an exquisite idea. Government shouldn’t have any say in how any individual chooses to dress, offensive symbology or not. People need to realize that the world doesn’t revolve around them or their feelings and get tf over it.

Yeah, let people wear white hoods and robes and burn crosses in front of black churches. Let freedom ring. /sarcasm

Whatever right to free speech they have in Germany, I don't believe it is as expansive as the First Amendment in the US. Their country, their constitution, their rules. And given their history, they feel like they need a bit more rules in this respect. Germany has done a much better job of owning up to their mid-20th century history than a couple other countries I can think of, so I think we should be thankful for that and respect how they have chose to set their standard for free speech.

And it isn't about people not knowing about "The Wall" and/or Pink Floyd, as some people here seem to be suggesting. It's about being very uncomfortable with public displays of certain imagery in Germany.

originally posted by: MrInquisitive

originally posted by: hateyourgovt

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2
a reply to: network dude

On one level, I feel like the German government has the right to enforce their own laws in their country, and I also think that celebrity or not, the law should be applied equally to everyone.

One day government is deciding what you wear. The next they’re throwing you in the gas chambers. What an exquisite idea. Government shouldn’t have any say in how any individual chooses to dress, offensive symbology or not. People need to realize that the world doesn’t revolve around them or their feelings and get tf over it.

Yeah, let people wear white hoods and robes and burn crosses in front of black churches. Let freedom ring. /sarcasm

Whatever right to free speech they have in Germany, I don't believe it is as expansive as the First Amendment in the US. Their country, their constitution, their rules. And given their history, they feel like they need a bit more rules in this respect. Germany has done a much better job of owning up to their mid-20th century history than a couple other countries I can think of, so I think we should be thankful for that and respect how they have chose to set their standard for free speech.

And it isn't about people not knowing about "The Wall" and/or Pink Floyd, as some people here seem to be suggesting. It's about being very uncomfortable with public displays of certain imagery in Germany.

People should be free to wear what they choose, even white hoods. Those types of folks are ignorant and despicable but should be free to express themselves as they choose so long as they’re not trampling the rights of others. You have a right to have feelings, but what you don’t have is a right to prevent the expression of others because your feelings are hurt.

I don’t give two sh#ts about Germany or their “laws”. An individual doesn’t have a right to limit the expression of another therefore that right, or lack thereof, can’t be conveyed to a government. The fact that people buy into that horse sh#t is beyond me. Hitler was a psychopathic reject. He, as an individual, was powerless. It was the citizens that were responsible for his unfortunate rise to power, for had they not believed in the state, Hitler would’ve remained a nameless reject. Most people don’t need rules to tell them that the acts committed by Hitler and his ilk were atrocious. Any half decent person with a single digit IQ is able to see that. I don’t respect anyone or any “government” that restricts or feels like they have a right to restrict expression.

I agree. It isn’t about Roger or Pink Floyd. And again, you can be offended by whatever you choose, but you have no right to restrict the expression of others because something is offensive.

Note: you is used in reference to a person in general, not you specifically.

originally posted by: hateyourgovt

originally posted by: MrInquisitive

originally posted by: hateyourgovt

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2
a reply to: network dude

On one level, I feel like the German government has the right to enforce their own laws in their country, and I also think that celebrity or not, the law should be applied equally to everyone.

One day government is deciding what you wear. The next they’re throwing you in the gas chambers. What an exquisite idea. Government shouldn’t have any say in how any individual chooses to dress, offensive symbology or not. People need to realize that the world doesn’t revolve around them or their feelings and get tf over it.

Yeah, let people wear white hoods and robes and burn crosses in front of black churches. Let freedom ring. /sarcasm

Whatever right to free speech they have in Germany, I don't believe it is as expansive as the First Amendment in the US. Their country, their constitution, their rules. And given their history, they feel like they need a bit more rules in this respect. Germany has done a much better job of owning up to their mid-20th century history than a couple other countries I can think of, so I think we should be thankful for that and respect how they have chose to set their standard for free speech.

And it isn't about people not knowing about "The Wall" and/or Pink Floyd, as some people here seem to be suggesting. It's about being very uncomfortable with public displays of certain imagery in Germany.

People should be free to wear what they choose, even white hoods. Those types of folks are ignorant and despicable but should be free to express themselves as they choose so long as they’re not trampling the rights of others. You have a right to have feelings, but what you don’t have is a right to prevent the expression of others because your feelings are hurt.

I don’t give two sh#ts about Germany or their “laws”. An individual doesn’t have a right to limit the expression of another therefore that right, or lack thereof, can’t be conveyed to a government. The fact that people buy into that horse sh#t is beyond me. Hitler was a psychopathic reject. He, as an individual, was powerless. It was the citizens that were responsible for his unfortunate rise to power, for had they not believed in the state, Hitler would’ve remained a nameless reject. Most people don’t need rules to tell them that the acts committed by Hitler and his ilk were atrocious. Any half decent person with a single digit IQ is able to see that. I don’t respect anyone or any “government” that restricts or feels like they have a right to restrict expression.

I agree. It isn’t about Roger or Pink Floyd. And again, you can be offended by whatever you choose, but you have no right to restrict the expression of others because something is offensive.

Note: you is used in reference to a person in general, not you specifically.

One of the problems is that when people dress in certain garbs or uniforms they convey a threat. Not saying that is the case with Roger Waters.

Now you may feel strongly about your views on absolute rights, but in a country where hateful free speech lead to its evil doing on a massive and horrific scale and then led to its undoing to a similar degree, I think the people as a whole in that country have a right to put some guard rails on their free speech to keep that scenario from playing out again. A people should be able to, as a whole, decide on their level of freedom. Your being a free speech absolutist, I understand your POV, but you also should consider and respect theirs and the context in which they made it. I personally think it's a bit weird how Germany has very strong laws and mores about Nazi imagery, but I accept and respect their decision to do so. It's not as if it is some arbitrary and irrational decision on Its part. There is such a thing as government by covenant, in which individuals give up certain rights, for the good of the group -- a social contract.

I think there are certain inalienable rights, but absolute free speech is not one of them in my opinion. Some things that a particular group finds terribly offensive, if not harmful can be off limits.

I'm glad that we at least agree that it isn't a lack of knowledge or understanding of RW, PF or "The Wall" which is the problem.

Looking at the video, in all honesty, the uniform he is wearing is not an SS uniform per se, but inspired by one. Would think that would give him some legal leeway, but I am neither a German lawyer, nor do I play one im deustchen Fersehen.

originally posted by: MrInquisitive

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: gortex

I can't help by think, if a Floyd show triggers these folks this much, would they survive a viewing of Inglourious Basterds?
www.imdb.com...

Being that "Inglorious Basterds" doesn't glorify the Nazi's, unlike how Water's performance could be interpreted, I think the folk in question wouldn't have a problem with the former. I could, however, imagine that some people might have a problem with the fictional history it portrays, i.e. the Yanks and French Resistance killing Uncle Adolf (oops, spoiler alert)/sarcasm.

it would take a special kind of stupid person to think that Waters was glorifying Nazi's, having listened to the music and understanding the lyrics. Those are likely the one's crying the loudest. And then there are the apologists.....

What's the likelihood this is because of his criticisms of Ukraine?

I mean the Ukraine government did put Roger on a kill list after all. Regardless the same people making this claim are likely the same people who thought the youtube creator pewdepie was wearing a nazi uniform in one of his videos. Source

Idiotic stooges incapable of any critical thinking whatsoever...