30 Tons of Ammonium Nitrate Missing-Somewhere Between Wyoming and California

I'd like to get a bag of ammonium nitrate again. I spread it out under some pine trees and they got nice soft green needles and when I pruned the spruce trees and small white pines, the needles didn't burn very easily. The hundred foot plus pine trees I fed grew new branches near where some had broken off from the ice and snow too. Three weeks and a twenty foot branch appeared. That was just one fifty pound bag I had got from Snyders that had a small hole that was taped up on it and was about eight bucks. Now they just got urea, which I expect would work well...but it would save money if I just peed by the trees since I live out in the country.

Seals are individually numbered and fixed in place where they must be broken for the access doors to be opened. The seal numbers on hazmat shipments are recorded on the shipping papers.

If the seals where unbroken and correctly numbered, then the contents weren't emptied in any normal manner. It is most likely a leak. They are common occurrences.

There's one other possibility; the company never really loaded anything on the car before sealing it.

I wonder how much they'd get on the black market? I wonder if some 'org.' with big pockets needs it for another false flag event? (Hey! This IS a conspiracy site! :roll

a reply to: markovian

I was wondering how much was used in the OKC bombing.
Thanks for that.

originally posted by: nugget1
There's one other possibility; the company never really loaded anything on the car before sealing it.

I wonder how much they'd get on the black market? I wonder if some 'org.' with big pockets needs it for another false flag event? (Hey! This IS a conspiracy site! :roll

Yes

originally posted by: Montana
Seals are individually numbered and fixed in place where they must be broken for the access doors to be opened. The seal numbers on hazmat shipments are recorded on the shipping papers.

If the seals where unbroken and correctly numbered, then the contents weren't emptied in any normal manner. It is most likely a leak. They are common occurrences.

You're quite correct on leaky gates being somewhat common. Especially on railroad owned cars, those tend to be very under maintained and generally in very poor shape. In 15 years of unloading hopper rail cars filled with various products ive seen a few come in leaking. I have however never seen one come in anywhere near empty, and most of the leakers I've seen were with ESN urea loaded, the pellet size is quite small and even a tiny hole will allow a leak.

For a car to come in totally empty would require one hell of a leak. Id think something like that would be noticeable by someone on the railroad along the way.

originally posted by: nugget1
There's one other possibility; the company never really loaded anything on the car before sealing it.

I wonder how much they'd get on the black market? I wonder if some 'org.' with big pockets needs it for another false flag event? (Hey! This IS a conspiracy site! :roll

That thought crossed my mind right off as well, not so much the black market aspect but the "it never got loaded in the first place" part.

The peeps that load cars aren't exactly known to give much of a crap about what they are doing.

a reply to: JohnTitorSociety

I'm not up on the regulations of AN as I don't deal with that type of fertilizer. So thanks for the info

a reply to: caterpillage

A large leak would probably be noticed by several people on train crews. With the current state of hostility between carriers and rails the likely number of people who would care is probably zero. I have seen leaks large enough to completely insulate the tracks from the following cars.

That said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if an empty car was shipped as loaded just to fill someone's shift quota. And we are talking about only 30 tons, which wouldn't cause the car to have an obviously incorrect load appearance.

originally posted by: beyondknowledge2
I worked for a recycling company that shipped in rail cars to some customers.

A rail car is roughly three bulk carrier trailers for truck transport. It would take several hours to empty and it takes special vacume transfer equipment on the trailers or the trucks or a fixed transfer location at a railyard.

It would be easy to track where the train stopped long enough to do that if it was unloaded and not just lost by leaking. The transfer system is very loud in any case and would be noticed at a stopped train along with the trailers and trucks.

I think it would be possible with three systems unloading at the same time to empty it in three to four hours. It would take possibly twelve hours with one transfer system.

Would it be difficult for the car to have never been loaded and the product have been loaded into a different railcar. So that, although sealed, the container was never filled with anything and the real 30 tons is a month gone and away?

Any idea what would have to happen for that scenario to play out?

There's one other possibility; the company never really loaded anything on the car before sealing it.

I wonder how much they'd get on the black market? I wonder if some 'org.' with big pockets needs it for another false flag event? (Hey! This IS a conspiracy site! :roll

Would it be an easy thing to do Nugget? It seems to me it would probably involve less people then any alternative method of emptying a sealed container.

I know where Saltdale siding is in the Mojave Desert is and why would they park a railcar out there as there in nothing around the area just the old siding and a weight scale used by a trucking company.
en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: Dalamax

Would it be an easy thing to do Nugget? It seems to me it would probably involve less people then any alternative method of emptying a sealed container.

I really don't know, but something seems really off with the official story.

Why wait so long to report the incident? I thought there were supposed to be regulation governing hazardous chemicals?

Why wait so long to begin investigating?

The way the Palestine derailment was handled was a disaster. It took forever for Buttigieg to make a statement; I wonder if he even knows about this incident?

Not even the fox is watching the henhouse these days...

30 Tons that's like a Semi trailer load the way it sounds to me is it never made it into the Train car .

originally posted by: ANNED
I know where Saltdale siding is in the Mojave Desert is and why would they park a railcar out there as there in nothing around the area just the old siding and a weight scale used by a trucking company.
en.wikipedia.org...

Because it would be away from prying eyes?

I have no idea how they put a 'seal' on a rail car, but I do know how easy it would be to remove a seal on a semi trailer and replace it if you had access to the right equipment.

a reply to: markovian
The OKC explosion wasn't as large as it could have been. They got the wrong ratios in the mixture and the detonating system had issues.

What's making my conspiraspidey sense tingle is the fact that it took over 30 days to even report this if how I'm seeing the timeline is correct.

Plausible deniability for an upcoming FF?

Ironic that satellites can read the license plate on a Honda but can't spot 30 tons of fertilizer.

originally posted by: nugget1
There's one other possibility; the company never really loaded anything on the car before sealing it.

I wonder how much they'd get on the black market? I wonder if some 'org.' with big pockets needs it for another false flag event? (Hey! This IS a conspiracy site! :roll

Yes and also yes to the prior reply re incompetence

originally posted by: TXRabbit
What's making my conspiraspidey sense tingle is the fact that it took over 30 days to even report this if how I'm seeing the timeline is correct.

Plausible deniability for an upcoming FF?

Yes it is questionable

originally posted by: JohnTitorSociety

originally posted by: lordcomac
a reply to: JohnTitorSociety

Not where you live, but up here you can't get ammonium nitrate at a home depot, you have you have a special license just to order the stuff.

Sure — it varies by country — my main point is that transactional monitoring via banks is the first line of defense against foreign nationals building home brew bombs, of ANFO or anything else — but in the US, this is heavily reliant on reporting and the systems do not accurately capture and report large scale theft.

30 tons of missing AN, is not particularly significant in the US because many many many people can acquire 30 tons of AN via legal or illegal means — what would raise it to the level of “escalate and pay close attention” would be a pattern of acquiring fuel oil (which is more highly tracked than ammonium nitrate for various reasons).

If DHS wants to decipher if this is a risk, the move is to pull all fuel oil purchases and thefts above a trivial scale in geographic areas that are congruent or at least close to the apparent missing AN.

The government has unfettered ability to do this (despite these products being lightly regulated at small scale in the US).

If the NSA can’t identify a pattern of fuel oil purchases in CONUS that corresponds to 30 tons of AN, the NSA should not exist and neither should DHS and neither should the FBI..

the problem is the fuel oil to turn ammonium nitrate into ANFO can be any of a number of fuels. home heating oil, diesel fuel, any of the jp jet fuels and even any of the vegetable oils that can be burnt in a diesel engine. AND even coal dust mixed with Ammonium Nitrate will turn it into a high explosive.
plus light crude oil in some cases.
the other problem is that if only 1 ton of the missing 30 tons was turned into ANFO and put with the 29 tons it would still explode like 25 tons of Ammonium Nitrate.

back in my days as an underground driller/blaster I would mix 80% diesel with 20% nitromethane for blasting burn cuts in very hard rock.