Democrats, gas stoves, and Diesel trucks

a reply to: ancientlight

You have mail

Do like the asians do and house it under the sink
a reply to: ancientlight

a reply to: Maxmars
Very insightful.

For about the millionth time, every issue the Dems double down on had ANY of them watched West Wing as a tutorial
they might not be so blindingly bumfuzzled now.

Couldn't find the specific episode but!
Leo White House Chief of Staff made the point to reel the president in so paraphrasing. "You can do whatever you want, but take away the normal everyday things like milk & hamburger the public will rise up & revolt"
Politics took a very back seat during the toilet paper debacle.

California outlawing gas means just millions of people can kiss their pretty glass pebbled fireplaces goodby, grills will just be a memory and everyone can take their patio firepits & make planters? Cooking on a grill is where this is going to bite them.

a reply to: 727Sky

That is a DIRECT Threat to " National Security " . Who's Responsible ?

originally posted by: Caver78
a reply to: Maxmars

California outlawing gas means just millions of people can kiss their pretty glass pebbled fireplaces goodby, grills will just be a memory and everyone can take their patio firepits & make planters? Cooking on a grill is where this is going to bite them.

Yeah I was thinking on this yesterday and I thought of the serious obvious drawback of traveling,it would also kill the ability to grill your food in the depths of hot weather. EVERYONE does it and what, now we have to have electric barbecuers? What a STUUUUUPID idea.

So our electric grid isn't strong enough as is to support existing electric machines and equipment. Add the EV's and it's even more overloaded. Now, add in all the electric yard tools and mowers, electric snowmobiles, snow blowers, farm equipment, off road adventure vehicles, sport utilities, fishing boats, jet skis........ you've killed your basic network of electric support by MASSIVLY overloading it. THEN, add in the capability to cook your food outdoors in the killer heat during the summer, yup, THAT's just great.

There were approximately 128.5 million households in the U.S. in 2020, with 60% of those households owning a grill (Traeger S-1). That adds up to 75 million households with a grill.

So by their figures, at least over half the households in the USA own a grill. I'd say the figure is actually much higher. I don't know anyone without a grill except for the very elderly.

This will hurt the green agenda for sure. Can't take your family tent camping in the wilderness like ever because you won't have gas for your vehicle, dirt bike, jet ski, fishing/ski boat, barbecue, lanterns, etc. So many places where campfires aren't allowed. Briquettes for the barbie???? I don't know, sales may sky rocket!

Democrats, gas stoves, and Diesel trucks

The SAME A*holes that cut and ran from Afghanistan,Snippin away billions in Ukraine, WON'T enforce our own borders, and police our own streets.

So I ask WHAT's the real game here?

Saying something's banned doesn't mean Snip.

originally posted by: xuenchen
Renewable electricity will be devastated when somebody figures out an EMP attack

Clown Score= 3Clowns 🤡🤡🤡

An EMP will render the vast majority of internal combustion engines useless , so what is your point ?
Not to mention that fuel/oil travel via pumps that won’t work either due to EMP issues.
Very little will work if a large EMP/Solar flare hits .

originally posted by: Caver78
Anyone remember when they banned wood burners in homes?
This new legislative drama is gonna have lots of unintended consequences. Watched the head of the truckers org yesterday point out deliveries are going to be routinely delayed since 2 hours are needed to recharge the electric 18 wheelers. Plus he mentioned the lack of recharging infrastructure. How he did that without laughing I'll never know.

My first thought is CA can do whatever it wants.
Truckers are just gonna use the electric trucks to haul a trailer to the state line, drop the trailer, go back & get another one. Of course this is going to exponentially increase the need for hundreds of trailers. Some enterprising trucking company is going to make bank on creating massive yards in western AZ profiting off electric trucks registered to the company and more cash as the diesel guzzlers head east with goods.
All theoretical.

The new law in California is twelve years away . By that time there will be battery hubs that swap your battery in minutes for a fresh one .
Salt & glass batteries don’t require rare earths as that is the latest battery tech .
People complained about gas replacing horse powered service as ridiculous & here we are .
You can’t stop the future , so learn to be optimistic ok

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: 727Sky

This all has the feel of an engineered economic collapse.

It's coming.........I think.

Update - June 7, 2023

GAS FURNACES are going bye-bye, if the Biden Administration has their way.

Source: www.westernjournal.com...

JOE BIDEN hates all Americans equally.

a reply to: carewemust

No surprise really. I dread Bidens second term

Gas stoves? Diesel trucks?

Donald J. Trump was all about the coal... In the mining and energy sector while hiring the battery powered Telsa guru Musk.

For the Earth bound coal's a renewable; Especially when converting hemp to coal and it's oil to bio-fuels including fracturing the oil into a natural gas with less environmental waste. For close space and inner air-craft is where battery manned and un-manned really shines.

When people look at the people in politics they miss out; When people look at what the people in politics are looking at then they see the point.

a reply to: Caver78

Or better? They'll ship to Mexico instead and Mexican truckers will deliver the goods. Bypassing expensive CA altogether. And then CA will wonder where all the cargo and the tax money went.

a reply to: 727Sky

New findings from scientists on child developmental issues when cooking with natural gas.

Researchers explored the link between indoor air pollution from cooking fuels and child development. The study found a connection between exposure to unclean cooking fuels and developmental delays in children.

neurosciencenews.com...

Unclean cooking fuel use and passive smoke exposure during pregnancy and early life were associated with developmental delays in this large prospective birth cohort.

www.sciencedirect.com...

a reply to: quintessentone

I would venture to say that most of the studied houses did not have proper venting for their gas stoves. I personally grew up, for over 20 years, cooking on NG stoves and have never had any issues with high CO2 or NO2 levels (using a UL registered detection device in the same room as the stove)

Most houses are built, nowadays, to use electric stoves. People convert them to gas and don't follow the proper protocol to correctly vent the fumes and "smoke" from the burning of natural gas.

From your second source: "There was no association of heating fuel use with failing any or specific domains."

Natural gas is used as a "heating fuel", more so in urban areas as apposed to rural. How are they saying that there is no domains failed while using NG for heating but there is for cooking? Something just doesn't add up.


In regards to the "passive smoke"(aka second hand smoke) aspect, that is already illegal to do around children. It is considered a form of child abuse.

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

I would venture to say that most of the studied houses did not have proper venting for their gas stoves.

Most houses are built, nowadays, to use electric stoves. People convert them to gas and don't follow the proper protocol to correctly vent the fumes and "smoke" from the burning of natural gas.

From your second source: "There was no association of heating fuel use with failing any or specific domains."

Natural gas is used as a "heating fuel", more so in urban areas as apposed to rural. How are they saying that there is no domains failed while using NG for heating but there is for cooking? Something just doesn't add up.


In regards to the "passive smoke"(aka second hand smoke) aspect, that is already illegal to do around children. It is considered a form of child abuse.

Well as for passive smoking around children, this would be a crime without witnesses around or there might be that trauma bond between the parent and child where the child would dare not betray the parent.

I am leaning towards proximity and/or leaks (even with proper venting) that may be the contributing factors, however keep in mind we are talking about little children and which have different reactions to exposure amounts than an adult would in the same circumstances.

When gas leaks occur, even small amounts of hazardous air pollutants could impact indoor air quality because natural gas is used by appliances in close proximity to people. Persistent outdoor gas leaks located throughout the distribution system may also degrade outdoor air quality as precursors to particulate matter and ozone.

“This study shows that gas appliances like stoves and ovens can be a source of hazardous chemicals in our homes even when we’re not using them. These same chemicals are also likely to be present in leaking gas distribution systems in cities and up the supply chain,” said Jonathan Buonocore, co-author and Research Scientist at Harvard Chan C-CHANGE. “Policymakers and utilities can better educate consumers about how natural gas is distributed to homes and the potential health risks of leaking gas appliances and leaking gas pipes under streets, and make alternatives more accessible.”

www.hsph.harvard.edu...

I not posting this for an oppositional political debate, I just wanted to let everyone know how a child's development could be affected. Safety first.

a reply to: quintessentone

Nothing political about my reply, not sure what would lead you to think I am blaming left or right for this. And if you didn't want a debate, or conversation, you would not have come to ATS to talk about it. Just saying

Bond or not, smoking around a child is illegal. Plain and simple


Again, the issue brought up still leads back to people not properly using assets at their disposal. One can install a home system for monitoring for NG leaks or when a system is installed they can buy a chemical that shows a leak in your connections so you can address it then and there.

As for the outdoor leaks, that comes down to a system issue where the supplies are not being properly maintained as they should be.

And for Boston, that could be another issue of insufficiently maintained supply lines that are being, or have been, contaminated and not replaced or cleaned as they should be. Could also be as simple as a bad supply of gas that needs to be better filtered and treated before distribution.


All in all, banning these appliances is not going to be the answer. Maybe the right answer would be to make people aware of the proper protocols and precautions they can take when installing and/or using these appliances, keeping the supply systems up to date, code, and making sure they are properly maintained, and making sure the gas they are sending out is of the highest quality.

a reply to: PorkChop96

Well considering this thread's title's first word, it's all about politics, now isn't it? I was just throwing it out there that my intentions in posting are not in line with this thread's context, that being political.

From my first hyperlinked source:

While gas stoves have come under fire in recent years as cities around the country have moved to ban them in new buildings, the researchers stress that this study focused on more than just natural gas.

“We found that children exposed to any unclean cooking fuel had an increased risk of developmental delays,” says Kexin Zhu, PhD, a study co-first author who worked on the research as an epidemiology PhD student at UB; Zhu is now a postdoctoral associate in the Rutgers Center for Pharmacoepidemiology and Treatment Science.

Due to the small number of cases, researchers were not able to examine the associations for specific fuel types, Zhu notes. “Based on our study, future research with large sample sizes is needed to investigate the relationship between the use of gas stoves and child development.”

Just putting this information out there for everyone, take it or leave it.

a reply to: quintessentone

From the WHO website:

"The following fuels and technologies are known to be clean for health at point of use and are categorized as clean for PM and CO household emissions: solar, electric, biogas,natural gas, liquefied petroleum gas (LPG), and alcohol fuels including ethanol."

Clearly your source didn't do their due diligence on research of what is considered to be an "unclean cooking fuel".

I have never seen a home built, or updated, to use any gas besides propane or NG for heating or cooking. Which, are both listed as clean and acceptable to use in home for heating and cooking by the WHO.

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

From the WHO website:

"The following fuels and technologies are known to be clean for health at point of use and are categorized as clean for PM and CO household emissions: solar, electric, biogas,natural gas, liquefied petroleum gas (LPG), and alcohol fuels including ethanol."

Clearly your source didn't do their due diligence on research of what is considered to be an "unclean cooking fuel".

I have never seen a home built, or updated, to use any gas besides propane or NG for heating or cooking. Which, are both listed as clean and acceptable to use in home for heating and cooking by the WHO.

Children are more susceptible:

One reason why children are particularly vulnerable to the effects of air pollution is that they breathe more rapidly than adults and so absorb more pollutants.

They also live closer to the ground, where some pollutants reach peak concentrations – at a time when their brains and bodies are still developing.

Newborns and young children are also more susceptible to household air pollution in homes that regularly use polluting fuels and technologies for cooking, heating and lighting

“Air Pollution is stunting our children’s brains, affecting their health in more ways than we suspected. But there are many straight-forward ways to reduce emissions of dangerous pollutants,” says Dr Maria Neira, Director, Department of Public Health, Environmental and Social Determinants of Health at WHO.

“WHO is supporting implementation of health-wise policy measures like accelerating the switch to clean cooking and heating fuels and technologies, promoting the use of cleaner transport, energy-efficient housing and urban planning. We are preparing the ground for low emission power generation, cleaner, safer industrial technologies and better municipal waste management, ” she added.

www.who.int...#:~:text=One%20reason%20why%20children%20are,a nd%20bodies%20are%20still%20developing.

a reply to: quintessentone

Nobody is saying that "children aren't more susceptible" so you can knock that bs off.


www.statista.com...#:~:text=Deaths%20attributable%20to%20air%20pollution%20in%20the%2 0United%20States%201990%2D2019&text=The%20number%20of%20deaths%20attributable,figure%20had%20fallen%20to%2060%2C200.

This study is from 2023. It shows that, in the US, 60k people total died from air pollution in 2019. Not just children. That is 10% of the number claimed for just children in 2018 from your source.

According to the WHO, 4.2 million people died of air pollution globally in 2019.

60,000 in the US is 1.5% of the global 4.2 million for 2019.

Using that as an average, you could guess, that in 2018 of the 600,000 children to die of air pollution globally, roughly 9,000 of them were in the US.


Yes, any child death is unacceptable, but when you cut through the BS that these "studies" try to cram down your neck to scare you into giving up something that has little to no affect on anybody, you realize how fearmongered you are by those that want to take those appliances from you.