Stoltenberg Stresses Ukraine Belongs In NATO, Russia was Right.

a reply to: vNex92

It's totally going great for Putin isn't it?
He wanted NATO behind a buffer zone ie further away from Russia because he feels 'threatened' and what has he achieved?
Finnland joined = now Russia has a really long undefended because understaffed long difficult border with NATO.
Ukraine gets fast tracked into EU & NATO
And his private playground Georgia, Moldavia etc have also become points of interest for 'Western influence'

lol
He achieved 100% the opposite of everything he wanted. Give him a year if this success story continues there'll be no more Russia all thanks to the brilliant plans and competent leadership of this tiny imbecile 'Putin I., the Dumbass'

a reply to: Gothmog


No inside line I just do my best to keep track on troop training and deployments of toys. Well what's public knowledge at least.
It appears Ukraine has not been using all the stuff they have. They have been prepping for the counter for some time now.
And yes they do have the numbers to keep this up for some time.

This is just another grievance about Russia not being able to keep a bunch of border nations "on their side". And why would nations want to be in "Russia's sphere of influence", as all that means is constant threats, belligerence and a lack of societal and political freedoms.

Countries join, and continue to want to join NATO, because Russia is nasty to them, and has demonstrated with Ukraine that there is no limit to their belligerence and brutality. Had Ukraine been a member of NATO, Russia would not have invaded.

Anyway, the "NATO encroachment argument" has always been inconsistent. What Russia actually fears is that as countries become democratic and free, and richer than Russia, then Russia becomes less relevant in the world.

Russia is living in the past.

a reply to: Peeple
Earlier in this thread I said that the Russian forces were so incompetent that they would probably nuke themselves. And hours later, Boom. Bombed one of their own cities lmao 🤣🤣🤣. Of course this was an "emergency release", like an invasion of a sovereign nation is a "special military operation". Lordy they may nuke themselves for real 🤣🤣🤣

a reply to: vNex92

Yet again?
You're certainly persistent in pushing this nonsense.

As part of its independence Ukraine handed over all of its nuclear weapons to Russia.
As a result The Budapest Memorandum was signed of which Russia was a signatory. It guaranteed that it would respect Ukraine's borders and would never invade.

Nothing about being neutral.

Independent nations have the right to decide which organisations they chose to join or affiliate to - its called The Right to Self-Determination.

As for Ukraine & NATO.
Ukraine was told in no uncertain terms that it had no chance of being considered for NATO membership for at least 25 years.
There were issues domestically that it had to address before NATO would think about issuing it a Membership Action Plan.

Of course all that changed the moment Putin ordered his troops in.

The FACT of the matter is if Putin hadn't broken the terms of The Budapest Memorandum and invaded Ukraine it still wouldn't have any realistic chance of joining NATO in the foreseeable future.
Putin's recklessness has brought this on.

But of course you know all this.
You've been told this time and time again but chose to ignore it - wilful ignorance.

a reply to: Freeborn

But why was the US in Ukraine for many years (even before the coup), promising & supporting them with weapons & money against Russia, causing/supporting the coup d etat except when they wanted this conflict/confrontation with Russia? Same can be said with China and, with words and supporting/giving all the weapons for Taiwan? Only increasing tensions and this is no road of peace the US seeks or deescalation.

What if there was a Nato alliance from Russia and the US against Europe after ww2 instead? As McCain (warmonger and hater of Putin/Russia) said: “People of Ukraine, this is your moment. This is about you — no one else. This is about the future you want for your country,” McCain told the protesters. “This is about the future you deserve. A future in Europe. A future of peace …

“The free world is with you. America is with you. I am with you. And the destiny you seek lies in Europe. Ukraine will make Europe better, and Europe will make Ukraine better.”

Now if as said there was a ''Nato'' formed from Russia and the US against Europe and they started/supported a coup d etat in East Germany where East Germany became his own country after ww2 (but not belonging to this alliance)? Also lets say Poland, Slovakia, the Check Republic &others (even though this alliance promised this new Nato alliance would not come closer. And promising East Germany all the support against West Germany/Europe they needed before and after the coup?... Germany/Europe (country's not with this Alliance formed against Europe/Germany), this would seen as a big threat and insult even, also those in East Germany even targeting pro western Germany people inside their country, even killing them and making live hard for them given with all the support and weapons giving from this Russia/USA alliance?
Sure many in East Germany like to be with this strong alliance, but many also not..Those corrupted leaders for sure after that coup d etat, they get very rich from it (like the leaders in Ukraine now)! This alliance would use the last East Germany male to win/fight against Europe/Germany, if needed.
But then complain when Europe/Germany would take action after? And this alliance when Europe/Germany did take action giving them all the weapons to fight Europe/Germany after.

Anyways why the US sought conflict with Russia? The CIA & the military industrial complex, start coups all over the world, start conflicts/wars (without anyone doing against it), war = profit, also making Europe/China/Russia weaker is all good for their own business/profit and on same time preaching the US are the good guys bringing democracy, freedom and peace, as always. Like in the Middle East for over 20 years, only bringing death, hell and chaos. A war called the war against terrorists and we never seen as many terrorists after as a result, trillions spend, for what?, let alone the endless suffering, deaths, tens of millions of refugees, still to this day they risk their lives trying to reach Europe from their hell hole caused by those wars (making live like hell after for many many millions!).

Why you see now many country's try to avoid this US dollar trade (world trade currency) (free money to print) right now?, because the US is desperate for money/income since they each year spend way way more then they get in income, trillions/year more spending then income. They will try anything to get more power/money then ever because of this. They have/had this privilege after ww2 where the dollar became the world trade currency, and after 9-11 they are only abusing this privilege which made them rich and powerful.
Even making their ally's weaker if needed. But with doing so they see many country's, and more will follow stop selling their resources in dollars... except Europe, Japan, Australia, Japan and S-Korea still blind and following the US with wars and sanctions, still...

They should have thought of that a long time ago, EU/NATO was a step behind Russia most of the time ,before the war started in 2014, if Ukraine really belongs in NATO/EU they would have been inside the alliance already.
There is a reason they weren't,it's because they are a corrupted country, and changing a few politicians not going to change that.
Doubt all those weapons being sent to Ukraine going to make any peace in the next few years.
And if there is no peace in the country, they won't be allowed to join NATO.

If most NATO countries didn't join the USA in wars they were in the last 25 years ,we wouldn't be in this situation today .
A few dictators have been removed the last couple of decades,it's not that crazy for Putin to think they are coming for him next.
It's because of USA and the billions they spend on NATO it still exists.
NATO was created as an alliance against the Soviet Union.
It would have been better that after the fall of the Soviet Union, NATO should have been disbanded around that time as well.
Don't say that European countries couldn't work together in a military alliance,why not at least change the name? and what you stand for.
and if you're a defensive alliance protecting Europe, why are you in wars in Africa and the Middle East etc.?

This conflict between NATO countries and Russia was bound to happen, if you listen to some of his speeches from just before he was president until now, his tone about NATO hasn't changed that much.
If leaders worldwide listen to what he had to say and take him more seriously, we wouldn't be in this mess today.
Everything he said fall on deaf ears last 2 decades he has been president.
Blaming just Putin and Russians for everything that has happened is just too easy, geopolitics is a lot more difficult and it's never just 1 personor country to blame for it.

Just going to throw this grenade and keep on driving by ...

a reply to: Dizle81

If you're the asshole who starts the war you get the blame that's just how it is.
If it stops to mean anything that you're a sovereign nation all diplomacy becomes pointless.
That means WWIII.

And I don't say that that isn't a very recent lesson, but I admit from the trading companies conquering the world to now that 'the Western Civilizations' brought this powder keg on themselves by doing exactly that: disrespecting souvereignity of other people.
But that's more a history/philosophy/academic question.

Reality as it is remains: if Russia is allowed to consume more land they will.
And while we struggle with our Colonial past to become better people, Russia and China are the 'better people with Colonial intentions'.
It is freedom vs subjugation.
Not perfect in any way, but I'd rather deal with the weird hairstyle and lifestyle choices people make than having to fear I get scooped up in a van to torture camp for having the 'wrong' opinion.

a reply to: Peeple

They learned it from the best,the number 1 world power in the world.

Who do you think #2 Russia and #3 China look to get better in the long run?
Exactly they try to copy what other countries are doing that is better than them,China and Russia both have been looking at the USA how they dominate the world market for a long time.
both have been using different tactics.

Ukraine is just screwed by being right in the middle of 2 world powers, and they weren't part of NATO/EU yet.
They have been under Russian influence for a very long time, if they would join EU/NATO it would hurt the Russian economy.
If Ukraine/Crimea becomes part of NATO then they can easily block trade/the Russian fleet at the black sea ,and when a country like Syria needs help again because terrorist groups try to remove their president,it's going to be a lot harder for Russia to help out.
And Russia has been helping some countries in the past in Africa , the middle east and South America.

a reply to: Mahogany

I mean for all intents and purposes ukraine has instituted a dictatorship. Down to what can be reported...what languages are allowed...what can be taught in the few schools that are active. What you can post online and if you got aginst the narrative more often than not some hardline nazi types drag you away...oh yea can't talk about that either...its against the law.

a reply to: Peeple

So you blame the US then for backing and contriving the color revolution...then backing the bad guys who won because it was beneficial at the time...yea?