When All Governments Will No Longer Exist

a reply to: randomuser

I do not dismiss that certain parts of Jesus' teachings, ones that everyone would agree to adopt, "may" benefit all in the society, but Bible teachings were created in different times with different values and goals. These values would be subject to change depending on the progression or changing culture and values of said society. There can be no unrepresented or underrepresented people left out.

originally posted by: randomuser
You are missing out on the vastly superior form of government Jesus kingdom will bring to earth... The kingdom of God is of such a superior quality that there really is no comparison.

How can you claim that a system of government is vastly superior when it has never been tried before? It remains theoretical.

Besides, the Book of Revelation was not meant to be taken literally!

1. Protestant Ken Peters disclosed an end times vision which refutes the Rapture belief. Only saints will be "resurrected", not all deceased Christians.

Also, the prophet Samuel and the pagan Apollonios of Tyana accomplished the feat of calling up a departed spirit from his grave site.

2. Christian saints and prophets (not just Catholics) have often indicated that disease, war, and famine are god's rejoinders towards human misconduct. They teach lessons, they are opportunities for people to develop compassion for each other.

"War, pestilence and famine are the rods to scourge men's pride and wickedness." (St. John Bosco)

4. Above all, nowhere in the Bible does it promise that natural disasters will be prevented, that god wants to do away with natural disasters!

In the Book of Job, god permits "Satan" to afflict Job with disease and stir up a natural disaster. The so-called demonic spirits can control the elements too. Calming a storm was not Jesus' unique feat, let alone an one-time occurrence.

3. Solomon displayed this ability in 1 Kings 23:25-28.

a reply to: hjesterium

When Jesus was on earth and performed the miracles he did he was showing us what he is going to do on a worldwide scale during his reign over the earth. Satan and his demons will be locked into the abyss during that reign. That was the 5th thing that was listed.

5. Jesus has power over Satan and his wicked demons. These invisible spirit rulers control the world and keep humankind in misery and spiritual darkness. Jesus will break up the works of the Devil and free humankind from its bondage to the dark overlord of earth. No human ruler can do this.

"He seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for 1,000 years. And he hurled him into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not mislead the nations anymore until the 1,000 years were ended. After this he must be released for a little while."-Revelation 20:2-3.

I can see why you think that only the saints or holy ones are resurrected during this time. But quite the opposite is true. They are resurrected before the 1,000 reign of Christ over the earth begins. They are actually with Jesus Christ during the battle of Armageddon. During the 1,000 year-reign of Christ with the saints or anointed ones, the holy ones, the 144,000, they will put an end to all suffering on earth. They will rid the earth of death, and of all sickness, as humankind is brought back to perfection of life:

"With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”-Revelation 21:2-3.

"And no resident* will say: “I am sick.”d The people dwelling in the land will be pardoned for their error."-Isaiah 33:24.

Daniel 12:3 explains that during the 1,000 year reign and all those in God's memory who never knew the truth that are resurrected back to life on earth, some will receive everlasting life, because they will chose to serve God after being educated. Others will chose to rebel and they will be done away with at the end of the 1,000-year-reign, along with Satan and his wicked angels after they are let lose from the abyss for a little while to deceive the people:

"Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Maʹgog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they advanced over the whole earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and consumed them. 10 And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulfur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet already were;s and they will be tormented* day and night forever and ever."-Revelation 20:7-10.

"And many of those asleep in the dust of the earth will wake up, some to everlasting life and others to reproach and to everlasting contempt."-Daniel 12:2.

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: randomuser

I do not dismiss that certain parts of Jesus' teachings, ones that everyone would agree to adopt, "may" benefit all in the society, but Bible teachings were created in different times with different values and goals. These values would be subject to change depending on the progression or changing culture and values of said society. There can be no unrepresented or underrepresented people left out.

Jesus' teachings lead to repentance. That word means literally to rethink. People who really listen to Jesus and are touched by his words and his gospel rethink the way they live their lives. Many people live immoral lives that displease God but have no clue of it because they have been brought up in a world where they have not been taught any better. Jesus said he came to save the sinners. Sinners are people who are not living their lives in accord to God's will. And his will is for all sorts of people to come to an accurate knowledge of truth and gain salvation.

Jesus said the path to everlasting life is taking in knowledge of the one true God Jehovah, and of his son whom he sent, Jesus Christ.

Jesus is a ruler in heaven and will soon bring that kingdom rule to earth. The gospel must be preached as a witness to all the earth before the end comes. That is the end of this wicked world. When Jesus returns it will be to repay those causing tribulation to his holy ones. So they are obviously not doing God's will, nor are they in an approved condition, nor will they be able to say they didn't know better or didn't get a chance to repent:

"This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you. But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you."-2 Thessalonians 1:6-10.

originally posted by: randomuser
When Jesus was on earth and performed the miracles he did he was showing us what he is going to do on a worldwide scale during his reign over the earth.

No, Christ said that there would be people who surpassed his feats coming after him (John 14:12). How would Christians react if his successor were to be African or Asian?

In the gospels, he himself didn't say that he would return to the earth, he said he had to depart in order for the "helper" to come. Since the Bible is allegedly the word of god and the laws and prophets have not been abolished by him, this statement logically still holds true. In order for Jesus himself to return again, he'd have to violate his own promise.

What the Acts narration claims on the matter of his ascension is utterly irrelevant, since it was not the words of Jesus, but the second-hand testimony of a man who claimed to have heard it from angels, the very thing Paul warned against (Galatians 1:8). The promise of Jesus' return clearly contradicts what he said in the gospels.

originally posted by: randomuser
Satan and his demons will be locked into the abyss during that reign. That was the 5th thing that was listed.

I didn't bother addressing point #5 because you clearly haven't investigated the matter of angels and demons deeply. The Orthodox saint Theodosius of Minvody did so from very early on in his life and is therefore more reliable: www.orthodox.net...

As for the Dragon of Revelation chapters 20 & 12, that is plainly symbolism for a comet which will be arriving again very soon. www.dropbox.com...

As a matter of fact, the Apocalypse finds its corroboration in the ancients (the so-called pagans treated contemptuously by Christians). That is why "saint" Augustine confessed that in many ways the Platonists led him back to his god, as did the theologians (i.e. Cusano, Boethius, Lucas Holste) who came after him. He also admitted that the thing we call Christianity was not founding lacking among the pagans.

For instance, I was astonished to discover an allusion to a battle between a Panther and a Dragon in a Babylonian prophecy, which was also portrayed throughout the middle ages: blogs.getty.edu...

originally posted by: hjesterium

originally posted by: randomuser
When Jesus was on earth and performed the miracles he did he was showing us what he is going to do on a worldwide scale during his reign over the earth.

No, Christ said that there would be people who surpassed his feats coming after him (John 14:12). How would Christians react if his successor were to be African or Asian?

In the gospels, he himself didn't say that he would return to the earth, he said he had to depart in order for the "helper" to come. Since the Bible is allegedly the word of god and the laws and prophets have not been abolished by him, this statement logically still holds true. In order for Jesus himself to return again, he'd have to violate his own promise.

He was talking about the preaching work. Jesus had a limited time (3 1/2 years) to preach while he was on earth. His followers would preach the good news of the kingdom to all the earth. In fact this good news is what I have been sharing with you.

Jesus did say he was returning:

"But he kept silent and made no reply at all.j Again the high priest began to question him and said to him: “Are you the Christ the Son of the Blessed One?” Then Jesus said: “I am; and you will see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of power and coming with the clouds of heaven.”-Mark 14:62.

As for how we can be sure that the book of Revelation is being fulfilled in the time in which we live please see this thread of mine:

Pieces of a Divine Puzzle Come Together - A Timeline Decoded

All human rulership is in opposition to Jehovah God.

I would have to reject that premise because it is perfectly feasible that a God fearing man or woman can take rulership over a people & govern the people to the best of their ability using the light of scriptural principles as their guiding influence.

You also say that Christians should not respect human governance. Yet Jesus & Paul made it clear that we are to render obedience to the rule of man's government by paying our taxes & respecting the laws that are instituted for the punishment of evildoers.

Your beliefs are obsessive & delusional. Mankind cannot live in a voluntaryist community in light of the world currently being under the strong influence of Satan, or even under the righteous rule of a theocratic authority, without paying obeiscance to human authority at some level of their engagements with others in the society. What you are promoting is anarchy with lip service to God as the only ruler permitted. And yet Jesus confirmed that Pontius Pilate's authority was gifted from Heaven!

God does not want us to view human rule in an idolatrous manner, certainly that is truth. But deny all human authority in favour of some sort of theocratic voluntaryism? Until the return of Christ, that is nothing but fantasy & delusion. You are basically arguing an entirely academic point - we all understand that God's rule is infinitely better than man's rule - but for the time being what other alternative is there? None.

It has thus been granted to mankind that he shall rule over human society, and that while he does so he will have to contend with the conflicting pressures arising from the heart of Satan - who wishes to corrupt all human authority so as to offend God. But we cannot live without human rule in these times, and only at the Lord's return will a truly God-centred rule be established.

So everything you are arguing is about as purposeful as a puff of smoke in the wind.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

When Jesus was on earth and they were going to make him king he withdrew so as to avoid it:

"Then Jesus, knowing that they were about to come and seize him to make him king, withdrew again to the mountain all alone."-John 6:15.

When before Governor Pontius Pilate Jesus told that ruler that Jesus' kingdom was no part of the world:

“My Kingdom is no part of this world. If my Kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my Kingdom is not from this source.”-John 18:36.

Does that mean Jesus wasn't a king? In the very next verse Jesus says this in reply to Pilate:

"So Pilate said to him: “Well, then, are you a king?” Jesus answered: “You yourself are saying that I am a king."-John 18:36.

Jesus did not involve himself with the political squabbles and disputes of the day, nor did he allow himself to crowned king of Judea at that time. But he did preach the good news of the kingdom, and even told Pilate that he was a king, but if you notice he said his kingdom was not earthly.

Jesus taught us that Satan is the ruler of the world:

"I will not speak with you much more, for the ruler of the world is coming, and he has no hold on me."-John 14:30.

One of Jesus' temptations after he was baptized was the offer of rulership over all the kingdoms of the earth by Satan the Devil:

"Again the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to him: “All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.”-Matthew 4:8-9.

So Satan the Devil is the rule ruler of the world. And Jesus' kingdom is not part of the world. And Jesus said his followers would be no part of the world just as he is no part of the world:

"Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you."-John 15:19.

Jesus told his followers to be in subjection to the superior authorities, to pay back Caesar's things to Caesar and God's things to God. But he clearly showed us that his followers were to be not part of the world which is ruled and controlled by Satan the Devil.

Nowhere did I say he should not respect authority. Now the Bible says to hold those in positions of power in esteem, and to respect them, in fact Jesus said:

"If someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles."-Matthew 5:41.

Jesus said his followers would be known by their love they have among each other:

"By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves.”-John 13:35.


I believe the reason you reject what the Bible is teaching you is because you are very embroiled in Satan's system of things and take sides in the political world that Satan controls. To acknowledge the truth from the Bible would acknowledge that the Churches of Christendom are a part of Satan's world, and are indeed controlled by Satan the Devil. That would take honesty, humility, and honor.

Christendom has rejected Jesus Christ as king in heaven. They do not teach that he is going to rule the world. Rather they teach that Jesus' kingdom is on earth and controlled by Satan's political system of things, and that it is okay to go to war and kill each other and get involved with the world.

That is what the word Christendom means, Christ's kingdom. The Churches of Christendom reject Jesus' kingdom in heaven, and turn to the political system of things controlled by and ruled by Satan the Devil.

Jesus is ruler in heaven. And he will soon fulfill the prayer he taught us to pray: "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven."

At that time when Jesus' kingdom rule comes to earth it will clash with and war and destroy all the kingdoms on earth, and all those who are a part of it.

Revelation chapters 17 and 18 show us the religions of the world that get involved with politics as a prostitute. She commits spiritual immorality with the political rulers of the world.

And in Revelation 13 the number of the wild beast which is a man's number is 666. Everyone who gets involved with the political system of things on earth receives that symbolic mark. They do not have their names written in the book of life. So if you get involved with politics, take political office, vote, approve of, and support any political party, and any war effort, any social movement, any rebellion, any protest on earth you have the mark of the beat, 666, you are part of Satan's system of things. Jesus followers are no part of the world.

“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever."-Daniel 2:44.

Jesus kingdom government established in heaven will crush and put an end to all human governments. During the battle of Armageddon all the rulers of the earth will be gathered together to wage war against Jesus Christ:

"They are, in fact, expressions inspired by demons and they perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the entire inhabited earth, to gather them together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty...And they gathered them together to the place that is called in Hebrew Armageddon."-Revelation 16:14, 16.

The Bible tells us at that time that all the kings of the earth, all the high officials, all the military leaders, and everyone else will cower in fear when they see Jesus appear in heaven to war against this wicked world:

"Then the kings of the earth, the high officials, the military commanders, the rich, the strong, every slave, and every free person hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. And they keep saying to the mountains and to the rocks: “Fall over us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb, because the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”-Revelation 6:15-17.