Was Jesus REALLY a Communist? What IS the preferred Biblical political system?

Hi ATS,

I saw a thread recently in which another member asserted that Jesus was a Communist, and that Christians are therefore obligated to be Communists also, or else we simply aren't Christians at all. Firstly, both assertions are ludicrous, we'll get to that shortly. But secondly, this thread wasn't altogether unexpected by myself, because I've been accused of being a Communist before, many years ago, when I explained (to a mentally deranged man) the nature of the church I had belonged to when I became a Christian a few years prior. At the time I was apolitical, and didn't really know what a Communist was, nor that (as I later discovered) Communism is possibly the most toxic ideology that has ever disgraced the Human Race. Other than Islam, which is also a political movement of sorts, a total life control system with religion as a front & centre focus in fact, which dominates every facet of the lives of its adherents in truly toxic ways, as is also the case with Communism. To my eternal shame, I once turned up in church wearing a T-shirt with the iconic 'Che Guevara' image plastered on it – the one in which he's wearing a beret with a little red star on it. At the time I just thought it was a pretty cool T-shirt, though I shudder now when I recall that incident, and the horrified expressions of some of the church members as they looked at what I was wearing (they were too polite to say anything).

So to get started then, was Jesus a Communist? Well, no He wasn't. He made plenty of statements about justice of a societal nature, and He did criticise the rich, and the powerful, quite a lot, and many of His followers later 'shared everything they had' in the Apostolic era – but that doesn't make Him, or them, Communists – not at all.

When I became a Christian, in 2002, I joined a house church movement here in the UK. I had been living rough, and in hostel accommodation for several months, though I had become a Christian just prior to this happening in my life. When I found that there was a house church movement which would be happy to welcome me as a young disciple of Christ, when I discovered they would be glad to house & feed me for a very low rental fee each week, I was overjoyed. I seized the chance to not only be safe & comfortable, but also to learn as much as I could from my new brothers & sisters, and to connect with God in the way I had wanted to, but had been unable to do until that time. It was everything I had hoped it would be, though as someone who had come from a teenage period in which I was lazy, ungrateful & thieving, it took time to adapt to an environment in which I was expected to pitch in & cooperate with everything the church had as its typical routines & activities. It was great though, because I really did learn the value of hard work, respect for others, cooperation in the pursuit of shared objectives, as well as the wonderful sense of love for others, who loved me back, and connection with God, the transcendent Lord & Father who had already proven to me that He existed, and that He was willing to forgive my very wayward adolescence, and not only that, but to bless me by permitting me to experience His abiding presence, His spiritual gifts, His personal teaching & much more. In many respects the church did share all that it had with those like me, who were searching for God, family & home all at once.

The church had many properties up & down the country, and people were permitted to stay & receive their rent, board & clothing for practically nothing. Those who worked committed their earnings to the church, but everything was recorded & if a person chose to leave, they were given all their contributions back with a low rent/board fee deducted. It was very much a perfect system for a lot of people. Sadly, later on there were allegations that the abuse of a couple of children by two perpetrators had been swept under the carpet by the leadership, and that was enough to scuttle the entire organisation. People who had harboured bitterness against the church came out of the woodwork & began throwing allegations around, none of which could be proven, and the church collapsed under the strain. As someone who lived there & gained all the love & support a broken person could ask for, I knew that at least some small part of the allegations were true, but that a lot of it was just bitterness & resentment. God was active in that church, and I was extremely blessed to be a part of it – I was devastated when all this happened in later years, after I had left the church to start a family with the woman I had met there in 2002.

Was that church 'Communist'..? I don't think so – because they were not trying to set up any sort of political influence, they were working on what I would call a 'Kingdom vision', trying to emulate the first apostles & disciples, their only objective the salvation of men & women, in a shared atmosphere of love & godliness. They sought only to do the will of God, and they worked hard at setting up many small businesses which would help to support the activities of the church. Nobody got rich, but nobody was left to suffer want or need either. The church grew & stayed afloat comfortably, because everyone was willingly working together in a capitalist system to ensure that they all were financially free to pursue their spiritual objectives. And if anyone left, as noted, they were given all their contributions back, no hard feelings. Hence, not Communist. It worked precisely because it was providing an environment & an atmosphere for the pursuit of spiritual fulfilment.

People who wanted to leave received a nice lump sum to start their new lives, and were always welcome back to attend meetings & fellowship groups/meals if they wanted to. There were actually different official 'styles' of membership which catered towards whether you wanted to be a live-in member (Style 3), a close contact & part-time disciple (Style 2), or a general member who was welcome to attend whenever, with less formal commitment (Style 1). The system worked! It, like myself at the time, was entirely apolitical. They let the world get on with being the world, & they committed themselves to knowing God, sharing His love, and loving each other.

I think they actually did a good job of emulating the way that the early Christian Apostles & disciples lived in the first century CE. Looking back, I can see that there were some inherent problems with the structure which in some rare cases led to situations where one or two leaders had too much control over what the members in their household were expected to live up to, and of course there were a couple (literally two) cases where documented abuse happened, by two members who managed to hide what they were doing for quite some time, resulting in some of the leaders making a very bad decision by covering over what had happened, trying to 'protect' the church in a very ill-advised, and ultimately destructive manner.

As a Christian with political views myself, I can say that I don't believe theocracy would ever work, neither do I believe it to be advisable under any circumstances. Although I enjoyed & valued the type of lifestyle the church enabled me to live at the time, I wouldn't want to see it gain any political power.

Continued...

I believe that good Christians make good leaders, but there should always be a separation of church & state, because otherwise the authority with which some church leaders are venerated, would leave them open to abuse that authority were they to be granted the exorbitant sums of money to manage & control which are the responsibility of a state civil service.

Everyone should be free to believe what they want to believe – churches are only permitted to attempt to persuade people to reflect on their beliefs, they should never be permitted to enforce conformity to those beliefs. The entire world was created as a place for the exercise of true free will, and that is why there is evil in the world. God cannot step in during the ordinary course of events to prevent all evil choices, it's simply the cost of allowing free will to exist – but ultimately, those who choose to commit evil are held to account, whether in this world or the next.

Thankfully, the majority of people avoid truly evil choices. They say that approximately one eighth of the world economy is 'dark' – meaning that 1/8 of all world finance is dedicated to the actions of the criminal class, the underworld. That seems a lot, but it also means that 7/8 of the world economy is controlled by those who do NOT commit major evils in the ordinary course of their lives, and that is encouraging. Most of us live according to the law – law that was derived from Biblical law. People underestimate just what an effect the Christian teachings have had in reordering the world to create a harmonious, democratic & free society across most of the Western world. That's something I'll be happy to discuss much more, but suffice for now to say that Christ's teachings are the centrepiece of Western morality, and have been for 2,000 years. The fact that we're now witnessing the culmination of Satanic attempts to degrade the moral fabric of society over the past seventy years in particular, should not be surprising. Modernity has led to greater material wealth, and sadly more opportunities for evil to prosper in the minor sense, the sense by which people are corrupted in their character, but not sufficiently that they break laws & face justice. Minor corruption affecting the moral fibre of modern youths has reached all-time highs, with the various levels of debauchery & mockery of the weak & the different that we see throughout our media & culture more & more everywhere.

Still, however, I don't believe that theocracy is the answer. I believe that Christians, from whom the moral wellbeing of society always did originate, need to be more visible in roles which promote to others the depth of their love & care for others, such as the wonderful work of the various 'Street Pastors' groups which operate in the USA & UK. Showing those who are caught up in some of the minor corruption of this world that there is another way which venerates being an upstanding citizen, a moral arbiter of truth, someone who supports & works voluntarily for others in uplifting society's values, advocating for a simpler, quieter life, for a decent & moral life. There is not enough of that in this world presently, and with songs by artist Sam Smith such as his recent 'Unholy' being the standard that our children are being pointed towards, the input & support of good Christian folk everywhere is more necessary than ever.

When a society becomes so utterly decadent & morally corrupt that it accepts & even encourages crap like 'Unholy' for our children's listening pleasure, it is very likely to implode – indeed, alongside the grotesque sexual 'education' that our children are forced to endure now, the media, culture & education are all progressing in the same way, towards the destruction of our kids. We really must stand up & be visible in these times, to point to another pathway, to shepherd them along the path to life. They don't even need to be Christian at this stage, let them decide on that for themselves later – but they do need options, they do need alternative activities & clubs to involve themselves with, counsellors to speak with who won't affirm that everything is permissible/advisable, who will tell the truth about sexual obsession, addiction & the shame, the fear, the isolation that can result from bad choices.

Stepping away from that unpopular opinion momentarily, just what is the prescribed Biblical formula for political rule? Well, there isn't one. We are expected to come up with that for ourselves. In the time of Moses & the Exodus, the Jews were being formed into a tight-knit community, a nation that had to be tough & scrappy in order to survive, to become a beacon in the world by which God would demonstrate His existence, through whom the Saviour would one day come to Earth, to teach, to heal, to release & to save Humanity. In the time of the Jews prior to Christ, there were a few prescribed systems for the management of the personal & corporate life of the Jewish nation. As an example, there were originally no kings.. Kingship was what every other nation had, and they were invariably corrupt (well, in most cases – there were some notable exceptions, such as King Cyrus – look him up). Instead, the Jews were assigned a decentralised court system of Judges – 60 of them, senior judges for the Jewish people, a court to which any Israelite could escalate a complaint & have it heard, so that justice could prevail within the kingdom. And the system worked well, it seems.

Later on, the Israelites were tempted by the perceived 'glamour' of centralised rule, under a kingship – they wanted a strong & opulent ruler whom they could be proud of, who would show them off as a powerful & wealthy kingdom, rather than what they perceived to be an unappealing bureaucracy of judges, even if they were effective & truly just, incorruptible owing to the fact they were always checking each other's work, always ensuring that they all were acting in a just, equitable & noble manner, ensuring no injustice could be done, to even the least citizen of the nation. The Israelites also had a remarkable financial system, with a rule known as 'Jubliee', wherein any Israelite could 'sell' his property under a fixed term lease for up to fifty years – he could likewise offer himself or a son as an indentured servant – but in the fiftieth year, the property had to be released free of charge back to the original owner, and anyone in servitude had to be freed, even if they had only just offered their services to whomever it was they had pledged service to.

This system ensured that no family could ever become truly destitute, every family always had an inheritance to look forward to at some fixed future time. This system was unique, and uniquely just, within the ancient world. Again though, this system fell into corruption & disuse, particularly after kingship was begrudgingly bestowed upon them by God's authorisation. The people had clamoured to a prophet to bessech God to provide them with a king, and God eventually agreed, though He told them directly that having a king would end up being a complete nightmare for them – and indeed it did, though that is another story.

Continued...

In New Testament times then, what was the political system, what was the financial system that was used by the new believers, following Christ? Well, there was no fixed system of governance, except for internal church management. The believers were not permitted to go and seek political power for themselves. They were tasked with converting people to the faith, in the knowledge that ultimately, organic societal change would be the inevitable outcome. As more people converted to the faith, including politicians & military men, the society began to change – it is said that the believers were viewed favourably by the people in many parts of the world, though there was also terrible persecution from the Roman state at first, and from people dedicated to the old financial & religious systems, which were intertwined (such as the case of silversmiths who cast idols for the pagan religions). Eventually though the Roman state adopted Christendom, and the world began to change – remarkably so. It wasn't just political power, there was genuine moral change.

People venerated the holy disciples, often monks & hermits who carried spiritual gifts of prophecy & healing, with deep wisdom that was beneficial to the common people & the rulers alike. Christian morals were like a beneficent 'virus' that 'infected' the ancient world, with both slaves & kings alike being changed, into virtuous saints who blessed the people with the grace they had received from God. Ultimately systems of law were drafted that took account of Biblical imperatives, and this happened the world over. Christianity was nearly universal in Europe, and as a result, I truly believe, Europe prospered as a result. Sadly, this often warped into brutal colonialism, when those blessings were abused, when the prosperity fostered greed amongst a smaller percentage of the people. As is the case today, a few bad apples spoiled the crop, and financial corruption became 'the root of all evil'. Still, just as with the percentages of positive & negative economic activity that I shared originally, the majority were righteous, or at least trying to be. Only the powerful minority abused their free will & their prosperity, with ever-increasing greed, opulence & decadence.

Be assured, there is nothing wrong in principle with capitalism – it is the correct moral circumstances in which all trade should be conducted. Each person who commits their labour or finances to a project will have their results determined by market forces, one of which is the providence of God, though of course that could never be formally accepted by the masses, not in today's world. If you haven't read the parable of the talents, spoken by Jesus, I advise you to read it. It concerns this exact aspect of His teaching, that investing what you have, and working hard for your boss, or yourself, is an absolute imperative authorised & approved by God. He knew that ultimately, the ethics He had inspired would lead humans to abolish slavery, but He could not openly condemn it, because that would have ensured His message would go no further than the gates of Jerusalem. The change He inspired took hundreds of years to produce all the results He intended - even thousands of years, as that process continues today.

Sadly, in the past seventy years we have faced a growing threat from Satanic sources. Deliberate disruption & abuse of the innocent, corruption of the powerful, manipulation of the whole. It seems that no matter how hard we try, we cannot convince people of the need for moral reform of certain aspects of our society. We advanced so far, and yet now we are beginning to crumble. I hope I have been able to show that Christ, and Christendom, are not Communist & never have been. We are capitalist, we are democratic (see the selection of the administrators over the food by the Apostles in the early church), we are conservative (we protect the wealth & invest in new ideas, protecting the people by the fruits of those investments). As for myself, I am staunchly libertarian, yet I believe there must always be safeguards built into a political/societal system in order to protect the most vulnerable. Everyone who can should work hard, every employer should pay fair wages & provide good working conditions. I could write for hours on my views, but I'm not trying to hold court here, I'm just pointing out a few of my beliefs so you know what you're dealing with.

I hope this thread has been interesting, and I look forward to discussing any of these ideas further with you. Really I have only scraped the surface, so if you want to keep the conversation going I am open to that. As one pointer to where this idea of prosperity & providence could go, I refer you to the Pareto distribution as a topic for discussion perhaps. It's a fascinating phenomenon, which I believe may refer to that providence I mentioned earlier!

God bless, and godspeed – may you prosper in health, wealth & happiness.


FITO

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Matthew 12:25

There is no need to have republican's and democrats and this, that and the other and try to lead any country in the correct manner. It never works in the end.

Jesus didn't get involved with the political affairs of the day. When the people tried to make him king he withdrew to avoid it.

"Then Jesus, knowing that they were about to come and seize him to make him king, withdrew again to the mountain all alone."-John 6:15.

When before Pontius Pilate, the governor of Jerusalem that Cesar had appointed he told Pilate that the Roman Empire had nothing to fear from him when asked if he was a king:

"So Pilate entered the governor’s residence again and called Jesus and said to him: “Are you the King of the Jews?” Jesus answered: “Are you asking this of your own originality, or did others tell you about me?”  Pilate replied: “I am not a Jew, am I? Your own nation and the chief priests handed you over to me. What did you do?” Jesus answered: “My Kingdom is no part of this world. If my Kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my Kingdom is not from this source.”-John 18:33-36.

Jesus said his kingdom was "no part of this world." "My Kingdom is not from this source." Jesus' kingdom rule is heavenly and will encompass the whole earth. His 1,000-year-reign over the earth is about to start. It will happen after the battle of Armageddon and all human rule will be destroyed by Jesus and his angels.

The Bible clearly reveals that all political systems on earth are in Satan's power. Satan is the ruler of the world.

Jehovah God did at one time have a king that represented his throne on earth, that was in the nation of Israel, in the line of David. Jesus is the descendant of king David, and has the right to the throne. But his rule will be earth-wide from heaven.

Christians are politically neutral. Jesus said he was not part of this world and he said his followers would be no part of this world. That is of this world's wicked political system of things. Any and all religions who claim to be Christian and partake in the political affairs, the elections, and the wars of this earth have fruit that betray they don't serve or follow Jesus Christ.

Jesus told his followers to pray for his kingdom to come and to preach the good news of the kingdom. The Bible calls Jesus' followers ambassadors to the nations substituting for the Christ. Now an ambassador does not get involved in the political affairs of a foreign land, rather they represent their ruler.

Christians are citizens of God's kingdom in heaven. And as ambassadors substituting for Christ they herald the incoming world government, the good news of God's kingdom to the people of the earth.

"Therefore, we are ambassadors substituting for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us. As substitutes for Christ, we beg: “Become reconciled to God.”-2 Corinthians 5:20.

"We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one."-1 John 5:19.

Probably Monarchy, which is a mix of Capitalism on it good days an Facism on its bad which is still going to need Taxes. Thing is Facism an Communism in the scope of history are relatively new concepts in comparison. Caesar being the Beast is not much different than the modern idea of a Dictator due to the technicalities of Democracy. The Hitler put it, National Socialism an Marxist Communism is essentially the same thing.

“The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal.”
Aristotle

In an ideal perfect Bibical world, everyone would be doing working in their own way, while also contributing to society or kingdom now wether that charity or taxes is up for debate. And you wouldn’t really need Rulers with God laws transcending mans laws, making everyone equal under law.

Left = bad and right = good so he couldn't have been a communist. Maybe an idealist like everyone should get free food.

Socialist.. maybe that would fit better. They say communist because he overturned the money changers tables in the temple but it wasn't even political.

I don't think Jesus was political, he just wanted everyone to have free food. That's why churches give it out. You shouldn't let those people prompt you to write mountains of text walls unless you really enjoy doing it. If so, they're kinda helping you be happy.

Only you know the truth. It's your truth.

the problem with all this "jesus was a communist!" "no he wasn't he was a redblooded conservative!!" back and forth is that it's all way too caught up in the politics of TODAY and filtered through that.

Jesus preached kindness and generosity to all, spent his time with outcasts and the downtrodden - the lepers, the homeless, the sex workers, and told his followers to give up worldly possessions and love their neighbour above themselves.

Does that describe any particular political ideology? no, i don't think it does, but it certainly doesn't describe the state of the vast majority of people who call themselves his followers. The excuses are myriad and i'm sure they'll flow in this thread but that's the bare facts. If you call yourself a follower of Jesus it's up to you to square it with yourself if you're living up to his message.

a reply to: continuousThunder

the problem is the overlap and the evolution of certain sects into political thought.. Orwells notes on nationalism has political Catholicism lined up alongside political islam neither of which is communistic indeed the iranian flavour had russian communism as lesser satan.

But as cleese notes in the life of brian the west is based on political Christianity thus the movie could only be about that.. Christianity is the basis of all things including its atheism in the west, so in that world being woke becomes another stream of christianity as it emanates from the usa its based on the American political Christianity, more protestant than insular or roman versions, thus the American tribulation becomes the singularity as both are Christian to their cores, and neither resonate well outside of American cultural tropes..

for Americans the english civil wars should be worthy of study for what happens in anglosphere countries when populations are caught between different Christian sects each imposing their own repression on society, the output are new sects of dissenters labeled in the 70s as proto socialist, protio marxists or libertarian communists. so the idea of christian communism is not new its a very 70s thing.

the likes of libertarian communism doesn't feel it could appear outside of the anglosphere as its the result of being caught between protestant Christianity and roman christianity.. in that context woke becomes a modern version of libertarian communism where sin becomes virtue, a christian sect happy to burn bibles in their rejection of the established church.

During the pandemic there where those on the left who claimed the party led by Boris Johnson that included brexit was a plot by revolutionary Communism.. a libertarian stream that started in Canada.. so the likes of Britain could be said to be caught between 2 libertarian communist parties fighting for the soul of the country..neither of which could be said to be christian or communist..

Jesus the devine Godman never existed! Jesus the man with a wife and family may have existed! Either way there is hardly any if any at all evidence outside of the Bible to confirm it. Bearing in mind the Romans wrote about everything. Same with the dead Sea scrolls written at the time of Jesus in the area where Jesus lived and guess what no mention of him.

a reply to: Thrumbo

Your mood says sarcastic but your comments often give me the warm fuzzy feels Thrumbo, I'm gonna accuse you of being genuine.

Imho tithe is a sin. We don't need books or religions to work it out. We can rename it all we want, call a path a road then say the homeless need somewhere to walk too... If they touch the crops on my land though they'll lose their hands?

And such attitudes is just?

Yeah I'd probably chuck a few tables over at the absurdity of "rationalised" minds too. Haha, rations.

a reply to: continuousThunder

I think it describes a person who managed to love unconditionally. A feat we can't achieve?

Does that describe any particular political ideology? no, i don't think it does, but it certainly doesn't describe the state of the vast majority of people who call themselves his followers. The excuses are myriad and i'm sure they'll flow in this thread but that's the bare facts. If you call yourself a follower of Jesus it's up to you to square it with yourself if you're living up to his message.

Depends what you're listening to I guess.
I don't mind Jesus but I can't stand the church and theologians (most of them) are walking, talking headaches. But yes, forgiveness is a difficult thing for us. Those 40 days he had in the desert are my favourite because I find it hilarious that even Jesus considered himself a POS once. We kind of all are, but we don't have to be. We choose.

I see many in general agreement with my point that Christianity in itself is apolitical. As I described, the house church I belonged to very much was of a mind to let the world continue being the world, and let us deal with our own spiritual objectives, thank you very much.

However, I would disagree if one is saying that Christians are never obliged to take up with a political cause, in the preservation of their own wellbeing, and that of society more generally. The circumstances would have to be specific, for example, a capitalist nation under threat of being remade into a Communist nation. Under those circumstances, a Christian church couldn't continue, so if there were a call to arms the Christians would have to throw in with the capitalists, for the sake of the preservation of the church.

We cannot exist within a Communist society, but we can exist within a capitalist society. In a capitalist society we can operate businesses that provide for our material needs & carve out a space in which we can pursue our spiritual objectives. If the Communists took over that would cease, the church would go underground, and the persecution would be terrible. Same if there were an Islamic takeover, we would have to defend the right of the church to exist without widespread state-led persecution.

We would be within our rights to fight to defend the cause of freedom, because Christ is the very definition of liberation & freedom. He is the reason our Western nations ended up valuing & defending the ideas of democracy, freedom & peace on Earth. If those values were under existential threat, then I would be perfectly happy to signal a call to arms for Christians to be at peace with knowing they were justified & within the Divine will to stand up & defend their homes, families, churches & the fellowship of Christendom.

After the dust settles, then church & state would once again be separate, to a certain degree (the Protestant church enjoys official status as the Anglican communion in the UK) - but Christians can be good rulers just as they can be good car mechanics. It's not the politicisation of the church for good men & women who happen to belong to the church to take part in the democratic process.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Maybe people are the problem?

This group blames that, that groups paranoid about this... Another group invades there. A child is born with a sour taste in it's heart...

It's all so miserable don't you think?

Maybe we should hand the keys to the kingdom over to the first non biased being our species comes across, I suspect we'll have to build it. We've had what? 5-10,000 years of murdering each other to practice a state of harmony and we still haven't learned to stop pointing fingers at individuals or groups, my hands are up too because I'm guilty...

We change or we lose.

Maybe you don't appreciate Muslims but Saladin done similar things when dogs went and ransacked his lands and utterly destroyed the culture of his lands. We're here TODAY. Why repeat the past when we can actually learn from it. It's Ramadan, fast, think and break bread with a fellow human if you can.

It'll do the world a good.

Jesus was above the political spectrum...

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
Hi ATS,

I saw a thread recently in which another member asserted that Jesus was a Communist, and that Christians are therefore obligated to be Communists also, or else we simply aren't Christians at all.

There are plenty of those in my area. I find it to be the wrong question.

I don't know what denomination you may be, but the Church which was started by the Apostles used to teach that the Mass, its main prayer, was a prayer to the Father and a ritual offering of the Sacrifice of Calvary to the Father. In Old Testament days, they had to eat of the sacrifice they were offering to God.

The other main prayer, the Rosary, was addressed to Mary the mother of the Lord Jesus Christ. The point was to pray to God the Father through an intercessor.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Jesus didn't advocate any kind of government. He preached longsuffering, patience, acceptance and love. He encouraged people to be passive regarding government leaders and rebellious spiritually.

Paul, on the other hand, had a lot to say about the church, its function, its elders and how to govern the body and how to work with state governments.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

The biblical Jesus didn't exist. Its mythology, like Paul Bunyan.

a reply to: randomuser

"Jesus answered: “My Kingdom is no part of this world. If my Kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my Kingdom is not from this source.”-John 18:33-36."

Thats because, "The Kingdom of God is within you". Christ.

originally posted by: ADSE255
a reply to: randomuser

"Jesus answered: “My Kingdom is no part of this world. If my Kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my Kingdom is not from this source.”-John 18:33-36."

Thats because, "The Kingdom of God is within you". Christ.

For a little help on understanding that God's kingdom is a real government with real power that is in heaven and will soon come to clash with the governments of the earth check out this thread here, and this one.

ETA:

Oh and especially this one.

I actually made that thread as an indirect answer to this one.

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
Hi ATS,

I saw a thread recently in which another member asserted that Jesus was a Communist, and that Christians are therefore obligated to be Communists also, or else we simply aren't Christians at all.

It's very unlikely that jesus existed as a single historical person that actually lived. In fact it's close to certainty that the jesus of the gospels didn't exist. Which is why there is such divergence among relevant historians (as opposed to apologists) concerning who jesus actually was. Whether someone (or more than one) existed and formed a basis for the paranormal story/myths told about him, who knows?

You have to basically create him whole cloth anyway to have him as a historical person, so "communist jesus" is about as convincing as any of the others.